RE: Lifestyle words, terms, phrases & acronyms (Full Version)

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stef -> RE: Lifestyle words, terms, phrases & acronyms (7/2/2005 3:19:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: roughleather

First, nobody in the SF kink scene refers to BDSM as "the lifestyle".

Funny, I used to hear it used that way quite frequently when I lived there.

~stef



luvdragonx -> RE: Lifestyle words, terms, phrases & acronyms (7/26/2005 2:13:06 PM)

OK, I know this thread is older, but when I put in a search for dictionary, this is the only one that came up. As a relative newbie to social interaction on the BDSM scene, I hoped to find a BDSM Dictionary. Reading through these boards, I've come across several terms and acronyms that were foreign to me. Between google and further searching, I figured out most of them. I've read this entire thread, and I think the whole point got lost in there. LAM repeatedly states that a dictionary is merely (i'm paraphrasing) a catalog of words and the meanings that are associated with them. One thing I've not seen mentioned is that the meanings of words don't really change, they just expand. slavedesires used the word queer as an example of how, used 40 years ago had one 'generally' accepted meaning, and today has another 'generally' accepted meaning. But, if you look up the word queer today, you'll find the older definition as well as the newer one. And that's what LaM has been saying - definitions of words, in a general sense, aren't static. But what is the big deal with having them for those who feel they need them?

Of course, the word submissive could be generally descibed as X. Within X there are infinite subsets. But from what I gathered from the OP, no one is looking to have all variants and possibilities written in stone. Just a starting point from which to define oneself. We each come into this world falling into one category or another, be it gender, race, location, etc. From that point, we decide who we are and how we fit into those categories. Or not.

The desire and supposed need for these definitions probably comes from the need to belong. There a many of you who, by way of BDSM or in spite of it, don't have that need. A lot of us haven't gotten there yet and it's true, it's easier to COMMUNicate and be part of a COMMUNity when there are things we have in COMMON.

For the record, I want the damn BDSM Dictionary. It will look great on the shelf next to my Calvin and Hobbes.



DublinSwitch -> RE: Lifestyle words, terms, phrases & acronyms (7/27/2005 3:41:07 AM)

I completley agree with the original posters assertion that a lot of these labels etc are a result of over-theorising by the whole lot of us.

Reading some of the boards is like looking at daytime TV with similar content of caring psuedo psychological advice being espoused, wrapped up with phrases that are applied to give some sort of academic legiticism to what is at best a theoretical argument.

Of all the things Americans gave us - exporting day-time TV is the worst! Grrr!! I think we Europeans might of given you 'self-help' books in return so how's that for revenge! And then you lot gave us weird coffees like choca-mocha-frappicino-latte-double-cream - even the coffee has been infected by weird words, terms, phrases and acronyms! This cultural tit-for-tat vendetta has to end!!

Course the other pet peeve is the P/people insisting on P/putting caps A/all O/over the G/goddam P/place as a S/sign of R/respect or something...respecting who? certainly not the poor sod that is taking the time to read the post!

End of rant/

Cheers

DS



MstrssPassion -> RE: Lifestyle words, terms, phrases & acronyms (7/27/2005 5:25:55 AM)


quote:

<snip>no one is looking to have all variants and possibilities written in stone. Just a starting point from which to define oneself. We each come into this world falling into one category or another, be it gender, race, location, etc. From that point, we decide who we are and how we fit into those categories. Or not.


This statement would come back to haunt each & everyone of us in the end...

There are those that will beat you to death with SOMETHING they read/saw/heard/learned SOMEWHERE. Putting these words into what would have to become a universally recognized & accepted print of defined terms would just give these types the physical object they could beat you with if you don't fit into the nuances mentioned.

Defining terms, protocol, modalities, fashion, etc etc etc is a manner of attempting to police what it is we do. Do you really want politics & police more involved with your personal choice than what they already are?

Maybe those of you reading this feel that this view maybe a little harsh. I speak from the experience of at one point in my journey of this way of life as being done exactly the way those I looked up to as the correct & proper way up to today where I can debate with others that any one step I may have taken was completely wrong & they would have all the links & web blogs available to prove such. (eye roll)

There is way too much history involved & so many ways that we have redefined & evolved this to fit our way of living to be able to effectively & fairly define much of what is common practice.

My advice to everyone is to clearly define what these terms mean to you so that when you do communicate with others, you are able to do so effectively & if you speak with someone who has a different point of view... well maybe you are both able to learn something from each other.

MstrssPassion




luvdragonx -> RE: Lifestyle words, terms, phrases & acronyms (7/27/2005 12:17:48 PM)

quote:


There are those that will beat you to death with SOMETHING they read/saw/heard/learned SOMEWHERE. Putting these words into what would have to become a universally recognized & accepted print of defined terms would just give these types the physical object they could beat you with if you don't fit into the nuances mentioned.


People do that already with their own opinions on what things should mean. There will always be SOMEBODY beating someone over the head with what they think is right, period.

quote:

Defining terms, protocol, modalities, fashion, etc etc etc is a manner of attempting to police what it is we do.


I disagree. Defining a word/tern is just that. Definition. Or description. Or reporting, if you will. Maybe you misunderstand, I don't want someone deciding what these words mean to everyone, I would like to see the general uses of words and terms.

quote:

Do you really want politics & police more involved with your personal choice than what they already are?


Since when has recording words to a single source equalled policing? I guess I better look out - the fuzz is coming to get me cuz I use the word 'trip' differently than originally intended.

quote:

Maybe those of you reading this feel that this view maybe a little harsh. I speak from the experience of at one point in my journey of this way of life as being done exactly the way those I looked up to as the correct & proper way up to today where I can debate with others that any one step I may have taken was completely wrong & they would have all the links & web blogs available to prove such. (eye roll)


And that's part of the learning process, isn't it? Had you taken others viewpoints with a grain of salt instead of as gospel, things may have been different. Or not. That's where you were at that time. No matter how vague and unbiased you try to make your advice, the insecure and naive will take what they want from it. It's part of the learning process.

quote:

There is way too much history involved & so many ways that we have redefined & evolved this to fit our way of living to be able to effectively & fairly define much of what is common practice.


I don't understand how it's 'common practice' if you can't effectively say what IT is.

quote:

My advice to everyone is to clearly define what these terms mean to you so that when you do communicate with others, you are able to do so effectively & if you speak with someone who has a different point of view... well maybe you are both able to learn something from each other.


And what terms would those be? Where would people learn those terms? Or begin to base their own definitions from? In no way am I suggesting that someone come up with an absolute - we all know that won't work. Maybe I'm using the wrong term here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Then you don't understand the purpose of a dictionary. As I've said before, they don't determine usage; they merely report it. If dictionaries determined usage and language never changed, then we'd all still be speaking the language of Shakespeare--oh no, we'd all still be speaking Old English--oh no, we'd all still be speaking proto-Germanic.

Language is determined by the people who use it. Dictionaries can help you by giving you an idea of how other people who read and write have used and understood words. But if you don't like what a dictionary says, it's not like there's some Red Brigade that's going to take you out back and shoot you.


Lam


I put part of LaM's quote in bold since he said concisely what I'm trying to say. Language is determined by the people who use it. That would be all of us. Dictionaries give an IDEA of how OTHER PEOPLE might use the word or understand it. That can only help our community in the whole communication process. an informal BSDM dictionary is no different than an article or a book on BDSM that might refer a newbie to. They have ideas, not laws.


Edited to add: At least we can agree on the acronyms. Come on, give me the Acronyms !! WIITWD had me messed up for a few days!



luvdragonx -> RE: Lifestyle words, terms, phrases & acronyms (7/27/2005 12:42:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DublinSwitch

I completley agree with the original posters assertion that a lot of these labels etc are a result of over-theorising by the whole lot of us.

Reading some of the boards is like looking at daytime TV with similar content of caring psuedo psychological advice being espoused, wrapped up with phrases that are applied to give some sort of academic legiticism to what is at best a theoretical argument.

Of all the things Americans gave us - exporting day-time TV is the worst! Grrr!! I think we Europeans might of given you 'self-help' books in return so how's that for revenge! And then you lot gave us weird coffees like choca-mocha-frappicino-latte-double-cream - even the coffee has been infected by weird words, terms, phrases and acronyms! This cultural tit-for-tat vendetta has to end!!

Course the other pet peeve is the P/people insisting on P/putting caps A/all O/over the G/goddam P/place as a S/sign of R/respect or something...respecting who? certainly not the poor sod that is taking the time to read the post!

End of rant/

Cheers

DS




ROFLMAO

I agree with you there. I'm an intelligent woman, but in reading some posts I had to run to my cough, dictionary, cough, to try to decipher what the hell was actually being said. I understand where some people have a concern. The moment something is labelled THE Answer, all hell breaks loose. There is no One True anything, we are probably mostly in agreement on that point. Some posts back in this thread, there was some discussion on what a slave is. Emerald offered her own experience, as did a couple of others. Their experiences are all different - that's a given, we're all different people. But they all have something in common. It's that 'something in common' that I'm looking for.

Now when I see a definition for a Sub-pseudo-switch-masochist-semi-sadist faery, I will close the book (I KILL me!) on the dictionary debate.



MstrssPassion -> RE: Lifestyle words, terms, phrases & acronyms (7/27/2005 3:40:38 PM)

quote:

Maybe you misunderstand, I don't want someone deciding what these words mean to everyone, I would like to see the general uses of words and terms.


I didn't misunderstand.

You contradict yourself here... how can a BDSM Dictionary be written without someone deciding to write it? That would be doing exactly what you just said you don't want.

The author of such would write their own definitions along with those that they have agreed with within their own experiences with others & within their own endeavors. Now, if you are meaning that we all submit our own definitions to the 'Consecrated Grand Writer of said BDSM Dictionary', I pity this individual... can you imagine the amount of diverse opinions one would receive?

One poster used dominant as an example. Of course we do not confuse this with submissive, but then we would need to define submissive & THAT definition is a debate that rages on still today. (hand-n-hand with slave) That one would need more than a paragraph or two to define... more like an entire book. (hmmm.... I think there already are a few of those in print & still no resolve to the debate)

I just don't see a BDSM Dictionary being published & accepted as accurate. This manner of living has been going on for generations well enough without one. I think people just need to step up & take responsibility for their own meanings, understandings & how they come up with them.

Quick survey: People, what method(s) did you use to learn about many of these BDSM terms? I would bet many if not most of you would say you learned from talking to others & reading from what was available. I would go so far to say that maybe you didn't agree with everything you heard & read & figured things out on your own. (Had fun while doing it too I bet!)

I have never ever told anyone at any point that their understanding/definition of terms was blatantly wrong. I would explain my understandings if they differed & be done with it & in no way would I ever expect anyone to use my understandings as a model. Anyone that would claim such is simply an arrogant fool.

I stand by what I said earlier. Clearly define what these terms mean to you so that when you do communicate with others, you are able to do so effectively & if you speak with someone who has a different point of view... well maybe you are both able to learn something from each other.

I also want to go on record to say that my using the quote from luvdragonx in my original post was not meant as an attack in any way shape or form. Generalizing any aspect of what is involved in this manner of living will remove the creativity & freedom of expression. It will also remove one key component, communication. This is a wonderful, colorful, diverse, imaginative expression of self & manner of loving. Summing everything up into one boring definition seems very stale in comparison.

MstrssPassion




luvdragonx -> RE: Lifestyle words, terms, phrases & acronyms (7/27/2005 4:34:22 PM)

No offense taken Mstrss, and I understand where you're coming from to some degree. And to clarify, my comment about a copy on my shelf was meant to be humorous.[:)] My idea was actually more of an informal collection of ideas with the understanding that they are guidelines AT BEST. Just ideas, not rules. Personally, I look at one persons view on what submission means. I don't accept it as truth, just an idea. I don't always agree and I don't necessarily have to identify with it in it's entirety. That doesn't mean that I can't appreciate being introduced to the idea in the first place.

Nothing against you or anyone who feels similarly, but I don't understand how one can be so strongly opposed to something you find no value in, especially since this is a take-what-you-want-from-it way of life.

As to the ongoing debate over said terms, why???? Those in the know understand that it is impossible to define for every single variant of a submissive, for example. To draw from your last post, you said a dominant is different from a submissive. How? If you can tell me how a Dom is different from a sub, I can tell you what the GENERAL, accepted meaning of the two words are. Not what practices or activities or belief systems any individual should adopt. For all the differences in experiences of submissives, dominants, switches, cuckolds, etc, each 'group' has something in common. What is the common thread between these unique individuals? That's what I'm looking for. Lowest common denominator. That's why I believe it is possible to compile something like that. That's what most regular dictionaries and encyclopedias are anyway. Researchers gather information from sources all over and put it in one place. Okay maybe it should be an encyclopedia, that might be better. I still need a place to find all the acronyms!



IronBear -> RE: Lifestyle words, terms, phrases & acronyms (7/27/2005 8:57:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DublinSwitch


Course the other pet peeve is the P/people insisting on P/putting caps A/all O/over the G/goddam P/place as a S/sign of R/respect or something...respecting who? certainly not the poor sod that is taking the time to read the post!

End of rant/

Cheers

DS



I agree with you on this one. I find it hard to read posts or emails with the W/we style splattered through it. I'd rather a sub/slave show her respect in her manner of writing than this more graphic form. It's similar to even a couple of kajira and subby friends of mine who continually address me as "Master Malcolm" rather than "Master Bear" or "Master Iron Bear", both of which I am called even by family and vanilla friends. It usually makes me wonder if i'm in deep doodoo or something. Back to the subjust of the W/we thingie, I had a demonstration by a friend of using this format vocally with his voice pitched bass for the "We" and a falseto for the "we". It was a good laugh.

No one taught me the BDSM terms. I did ask what some terms meant, but in general i watched and listened. Gor was different as I was taught the terminology. generally i like things to be simple even though I am likely to complicate them by using Gorean and Kassar terms. But that's just lil 'ol me



MstrssPassion -> RE: Lifestyle words, terms, phrases & acronyms (7/28/2005 5:30:01 AM)

quote:

I don't understand how one can be so strongly opposed to something you find no value in, especially since this is a take-what-you-want-from-it way of life.


Well, this sentiment 'take what you want-ism' is what this way of life has become, what is deemed as common practice-- so that it fits.

This isn't bad. Don't get me wrong. As more & more people gained interest there had to be an explosion of new ideas, new methods, new theories & new meanings to commonly used terms.

(Disclaimer: do not quote me for accuracy... my words on Gorean are just from my recall of discussions with persons who are Gorean & this is not a modality that I have deep study within. So please... no horde of tribesmen jumping from the cliff to attack me for my following words.)

Take Gorean. In essence, Gorean is based on books of John Norman & (I'm not sure how many) & his ghost writers. It is primarily based on a fictional planet where men rule & women submit. The men are far stronger & larger than women. It is stated that even the strongest woman of Gor does not measure to that of a young teenage boy ( I think 13 or 14 yrs of age was used)

With that said there are women today who promote themselves as Gorean & not slaves, but not Free Women either. There was only one cast mentioned within the books of these warrior women, yet they eventually were overcome by their male counterparts & surrendered. I knew, based on my reading & speaking with Gorean friends that I could never become Gorean even though I admire many mentions of brotherhood, honor & valor. The description of Free Woman left much to desire. She was described cold, undesirable. This definitely didn't describe me. Though called Free, she was in effect dependent upon the males for protection & if she ventured out on her own, she would most likely be taken & forced into slavery.

Back to my point. Just with the minimal knowledge I have, I know that a "Mistress" of Gor stretches the original writings, terms of John Norman so that it will fit their style.


So, with that said (& enough said for me on the topic) if there would ever be a BDSM Dictionary published, It would do a vast majority of us no good because this has become the take-what-you-want lifestyle & meanings will never mirror others since everyone is going to keep making it up as they go so that it all fits like a warm comfy.

MstrssPassion





Lordandmaster -> RE: Lifestyle words, terms, phrases & acronyms (7/28/2005 11:52:09 AM)

"Has become"? What was it before?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrssPassion

So, with that said (& enough said for me on the topic) if there would ever be a BDSM Dictionary published, It would do a vast majority of us no good because this has become the take-what-you-want lifestyle & meanings will never mirror others since everyone is going to keep making it up as they go so that it all fits like a warm comfy.




mnottertail -> RE: Lifestyle words, terms, phrases & acronyms (7/28/2005 12:15:53 PM)

this is a NICE conversation...............where are the linquists? original meaning (surprise).

couple examples;

san·guine ( P ) Pronunciation Key (snggwn)
adj.

Of the color of blood; red.
Of a healthy reddish color; ruddy: a sanguine complexion.
Archaic.
Having blood as the dominant humor in terms of medieval physiology.
Having the temperament and ruddy complexion formerly thought to be characteristic of a person dominated by this humor; passionate.
Cheerfully confident; optimistic.

Accipiter \Ac*cip"i*ter\, n.; pl. E. Accipiters. L. Accipitres. [L., hawk.] 1. (Zo["o]l.) A genus of rapacious birds; one of the Accipitres or Raptores.

2. (Surg.) A bandage applied over the nose, resembling the claw of a hawk.


and finally.......

con·tin·u·um ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-tny-m)
n. pl. con·tin·u·a (-tny-) or con·tin·u·ums
A continuous extent, succession, or whole, no part of which can be distinguished from neighboring parts except by arbitrary division.
Mathematics.
A set having the same number of points as all the real numbers in an interval.
The set of all real numbers.

Mercnbeth, can you stick the quote about these are concepts in here?

So, most of these things are emotional concepts that are trying to be defined, slave from Wiseman is not the same as slave as understood throughout history and once again revised by the US in the mid-1700s to mid 1800s..........

we are not a dead language, and we will continue to evolve the meanings of words.....but I think that the first thing we do......let's kill all the lawyers. These words are not cut in stone yet. They are generally not accepted as definitions yet: ScooterTrash has shown a colloquial usage for slave that says it is often used interchangeably with submissive, and by god, I am one that does it. Nowhere does it say that I am a stupid bastard that doesn't understand common meaning, and in fact says that its common meaning is not what it was during the civil war.

my two (hopefully we can agree on that word) cents,
Ron



MstrHellsFury -> RE: Lifestyle words, terms, phrases & acronyms (7/28/2005 4:39:21 PM)

methinks it's time for me to become PC...that's pop-corn not politicly correct...


Fury



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