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Deceptive ads? - 7/31/2008 3:15:07 AM   
Thadius


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Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPPLSHKH0h4

Obama's answer to the McCain ad.  He lists 5 seperate sources with quotes and dates... with the caption John McCain Attacks on Barack Obama

"not true" - MSNBC 07/28/08- I can't find anything from that date that states "not true" (perhaps there is something I am missing)

"false" - Factcheck.org 07/28/08- used the word to describe the claims about wanting to bring press, http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/snubbing_wounded_troops.html

"baloney" -USA Today Editorial 07/29/08 - says that blaming Obama alone for gas prices is "baloney" -opinion piece
quote:

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2008/07/our-view-on-cam.html#more
Even by the elastic standards of political ads, this is more than a stretch. It's baloney. It's also a marker on the path toward the kind of simplistic, counterproductive demonizing that many expect will poison the fall campaign


"the low road" New York Times Editorial 07/30/08 -no surprise here- besides it is another opinion piece. Would be the same as using the words of Limbaugh to categorize Obama's message

"baseless" - TIME 07/30/08 -there is no article with this date, the closest thing is an article from 07/31/08 discussing the "McCain Anti-Celebrity Storyline" (that is the article title) and the word baseless doesn't appear in it. http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1828111,00.html 
Somehow the Obama campaign did miss this quote in the article that discussed McCain's ads...

quote:

It is an argument that amounts to this: Barack Obama is a huge phenomenon, but he does not have the experience, or the judgement, to lead the country. In fact, he is just another polictician, an empty suit, who will do whatever he needs, and make as many vague but eloquent speeches as he has to, to get elected. John McCain, on the other hand, is a proven, principled leader you already know.


Anyways, I was curious in reading the articles in which those statements were made, or seeing the context in which it was stated. Only 3 of the 5 sources are accurate. The ad continuously pops up a picture of McCain with Bush, and concludes the negative portion with "Same old Politics, Same Failed Policies".  The curious part to me in this part of the presentation is Obama suggesting that associations are fair game?  I wonder how an ad showing Obama with Ayers with talks of how Ayers wanted to bring  about change, with a tagline of "That is change we can do without", would be received.  Just a quick thought that came to mind.

This is shaping up to be a nasty campaign season, from both sides.  I think we are just seeing the tip of the iceburg, and the honesty of both campaign ads are going to be "bordering on reality". Let's keep it civil, and discuss the issues, because the campaigns certainly are going to be getting off of them in the weeks and months to come.

Looking forward to some discussions on why these ads are bad for either candidate, or why you believe they will gain traction.

Thadius

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RE: Deceptive ads? - 7/31/2008 5:34:02 AM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		Nice spin there.

I seem to have missed the post where you went over the McCain ad. I do like how you make responding to an attack out to be negative campaigning.

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RE: Deceptive ads? - 7/31/2008 5:42:11 AM   
Thadius


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Status: offline 		Ken,

I left the discussion open to discuss both parties... If you would like to point out the problems with the McCain ads, please list them.  Both parties are beginning to go down this road, I even highligted that in my original post.  I am looking for examples and your opinions on why it is a bad or good thing.


Edited to add: Look at the date in the ad, and look at the date in the link you posted. 

< Message edited by Thadius -- 7/31/2008 5:43:39 AM >

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RE: Deceptive ads? - 7/31/2008 5:47:36 AM   
housesub4you


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Status: offline 		I am not going to list any examples, just my thoughts.  I think it sucks because instead of saying what they will do and how they will do it.  All we hear is why what the other guy is doing or saying is wrong. 

What ever happened to "I" statments?

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RE: Deceptive ads? - 7/31/2008 5:49:14 AM   
bipolarber


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Status: offline 		I find it rater telling that you go to Factcheck.org, and the vast majority of the corrections to false claims in campaign ads are focused on the McCain camp. THIS is what "Mr. Straight Talk Express" was talking about, in running a clean campagin?

Again, I kind like John McCain... I was seriousl thinking of voting for him last time around... but this time... the dark GOP "shadow group" seems to be bent on portraying him as something he's not. These are the same tactics that made Bob Dole so unattractive to voters.


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RE: Deceptive ads? - 7/31/2008 5:49:37 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

I am not going to list any examples, just my thoughts.  I think it sucks because instead of saying what they will do and how they will do it.  All we hear is why what the other guy is doing or saying is wrong. 

What ever happened to "I" statments?


Great point.

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RE: Deceptive ads? - 7/31/2008 5:50:33 AM   
MissSCD


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Status: offline 		Thank God for the edit button.  Sorry, Thadius, but all I ever see on this site is bashing Obama.  I automatically thought it was against Obama, not McCain.
Will save my question for another post.
 
Regards, MissSCD

< Message edited by MissSCD -- 7/31/2008 6:01:00 AM >

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RE: Deceptive ads? - 7/31/2008 5:53:18 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD

Discussion for both parties?   I cannot figure out why any of you like McCain?  Give me a reason other than he is white.

Dodges the flames.
 
Regards, MissSCD


You are joking right?  Why would you interject a comment like that into this discussion?

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RE: Deceptive ads? - 7/31/2008 6:39:47 AM   
smartalex


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Status: offline 		This is nothing new, although the scope of it this go round seems like it will be greater. After all, it's only July with plenty of time to heat up between now and November. I have always found any attempts to discover what the candidates actually think somewhat futile.

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RE: Deceptive ads? - 7/31/2008 7:49:36 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

Both parties are beginning to go down this road


Both parties are going to go down the low road, because that is what wins elections. 
Mudslinging works because voters fall for it overwhelmingly, so it being bad is a non-issue for politicians and their handlers, who are going to do whatever it takes to get whatever they want.

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RE: Deceptive ads? - 7/31/2008 1:51:52 PM   
bipolarber


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Status: offline 		You want to know why they hate Obama? Go to You Tube, and search "Bill O'Riley, McCain, White Male Power Structure" That pretty much lays it out on the table. I came across it when I was replaying Pat Buchannan's '92 RNC speech, which was so borderline racist, it's unbelievable....

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RE: Deceptive ads? - 7/31/2008 3:52:35 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

Both parties are beginning to go down this road


Both parties are going to go down the low road, because that is what wins elections. 
Mudslinging works because voters fall for it overwhelmingly, so it being bad is a non-issue for politicians and their handlers, who are going to do whatever it takes to get whatever they want.


I think this is much the same in most of the so called civilised world. Elections tend to be more about personality these days, than actual policy content. Maybe this is why so many voters are apathetic.

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RE: Deceptive ads? - 7/31/2008 6:29:49 PM   
christine1


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Status: offline 		i don't hate obama or mccain but i dont' like them either.  i wish they would  stand on their views and stop attacking the other guy.  we dont' need to hear the attacks, we need to hear what each candidate really stands for, it's too bad that attacking the other guy has become more important than standing on your laurels. 

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RE: Deceptive ads? - 7/31/2008 6:42:12 PM   
kittinSol


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quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1

we dont' need to hear the attacks, we need to hear what each candidate really stands for



Absolutely, although...when's the last time a presidential campaign consisted of informed, intelligent debate  ?

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RE: Deceptive ads? - 7/31/2008 6:50:49 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1

we dont' need to hear the attacks, we need to hear what each candidate really stands for



Absolutely, although...when's the last time a presidential campaign consisted of informed, intelligent debate  ?



The Lincoln-Douglas debates were pretty good... Not as much rhetoric.    Oh wait you said presidential.... nevermind.

< Message edited by Thadius -- 7/31/2008 6:52:34 PM >

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RE: Deceptive ads? - 7/31/2008 6:55:30 PM   
bipolarber


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Status: offline 		Personally, I'm looking forward to the Presidential Debates... Not for the exchange of ideas, so much, but I've really become facinated by the McCain camp's unerring ability to totally fuck up and make McCain look like an idiot. (and, contrariwise.. how Obama's team is making him into a media sensation.)

How will they screw up the debates? Will they hire Dick Smith to do McCain's makeup? Will they forget to add an "orange crate" for John to stand on, so their man looks like Verne Troyer? Maybe they won't check the lighting, and John will end up looking like Mel Brooks' character, "The 2000 Year Old Man..."

I'm gaining real faith in these clods. This could be the worst representation of a candidate since the Nixon/Kennedy debates, where Richard Nixon looked like Dracula onscreen. (Although some would argue, that WAS how he looked in everyday life...)


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