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shock collars - 1/21/2006 11:43:25 AM   
servitude69


Posts: 20
Joined: 8/6/2004
Status: offline 		I have recently read several stories of how Dominant women use shock collars on their male slaves. Are their any women using this site that have used such a collar on a male? How painfull is it ? Do they leave marks, or do any permanant damage? Thank you for your time.slave michael
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: shock collars - 1/21/2006 6:10:55 PM   
jamesthehumanrug


Posts: 668
Joined: 10/21/2005
Status: offline 		servitude
well lets see:
i havent any collars but some slob is zapping me without consent now and the damage is torture by no consent
if its on your hair follicles you mite as well have electrologysts;kiss your volume of hair goodbye;
if you get zapped severely over a long period of time; you get dyslexic and slowly handicapped; so you cant function up to par as usual;typing writing;
your muscles contract, if its in your face; you may get away with a face lift ;or worse; wrinkling; squinting eyes ;cause they dont or wont stop;
you also loose potassium; and could get a heart attack; like snuff victim who lived with me ;as my misstress ;the mayflower madame ;in jersey city, newjersey ;they said shed go with a" heart attack" and they zapped her ;just like im being zapped ;the threat is ambiguous "your gonna get zapped ,then you die" etc....
also; it is torture without protection ;you contort ;spasm; wrinkle; loose hair ;mentally and psysically get very exhausted ;if they do it every time you try to sleep or relax; under their cheep survellance; and on and on; thats my current experience;
its also hard to complain; or proove ;and hard to catch;and you tend to look or be acused of being nuts if you say anything about being zapped period; and it is used frequently , by gov. in torture techniques; most commonly for the past few hundred years,and,is a violation of the geneeva convention rules;
you also get sick to your stomach; if its in the head or base of the skull; you're gonna puke; and, you have no recourse ,so be careful who you say yes to; and kill the one who threatens you with it!
the usa refuses to save anyone or expose or acknowledge snuff and hollywood biz and the common use of torture for film and snuff contracts ,to date.i know timothy mcvey was an elite soldier of a mistress and when fbi refused to save anyone or deal with snuff he blew up the building and as a hostage she was chopped up her name was amy beal and a moive and a song was taken of me ,in the pricess and made millions;she was my misstress and wittness and was killed...thats why the oklahoma thing really went off....
i would never say yes to being zapped and i resent due to negative experiences the ones who even would ask,as i assume they have the same mentality that i would not submit to ....but turn,around is o.k,on the ones zapping me now,and,you bet , if i could ;i would ;
in severe cases; bone and muscle are sepparated and torn from each other and the attachment severed ,so it's ,not unlike the rack.
in five years age can make a difference in appearances but do you know what torture does in half the time,to a persons usual image and looks?

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,LOVEles,
jamesthehumanrug

(in reply to servitude69)
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RE: shock collars - 1/21/2006 6:24:21 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Dogs ....................

in the range of 35 to 165 pounds can take it... I am sure you will survive (as you will with a cattle prod) the risk is there, hovever; time to time a taser perp tips over, due to ohm's law. don't run the shit on your chest (heart area)

Of course it hurts, what the fuck is the sense of it's being pleasant, pray tell?

Confusedly,
Ron


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RE: shock collars - 1/22/2006 1:27:00 AM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		I'm sure it will be a quite shocking experince


hehe pun intended.

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Profile   Post #: 4
RE: shock collars - 1/22/2006 4:45:41 AM   
MsSonnetMarwood


Posts: 1898
Joined: 2/10/2005
From: Eastern Shore, Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

I have recently read several stories of how Dominant women use shock collars on their male slaves. Are their any women using this site that have used such a collar on a male? How painfull is it ? Do they leave marks, or do any permanant damage? Thank you for your time.slave michael



I don't have one but have borrowed them once or twice to use.

Typically, they have a fairly wide range of intensity, so you can play around with how much it hurts with the individual. Yes, the higher intensities can be quite painful - that indeed would be the point, no?

You can modify them to fit around genitals (hehe!) or strap it around a sub's thigh. Like other intense electric play toys, don't use above the wasteline so as not to interfere with the heart's natural electric impulses. Fortunately, the tender naughty bits on a male sub are below the wasteline <EG>

One specific scene I recall years ago was a sub being bound tightly into a heavy wood chair with a shock collar around his thigh. Most of us were sitting in the other room and I had the remote control. Hit the button, hear a grunt and the chair jump. Later the bottom in question told me the worst part was that he could hear me start to chuckle (I have a tendency to laugh when I'm being sadistic) before I hit the remote control, and he would tense because he knew it was coming.


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RE: shock collars - 1/22/2006 7:51:08 PM   
Smythe


Posts: 369
Joined: 12/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: servitude69

I have recently read several stories of how Dominant women use shock collars on their male slaves. Are their any women using this site that have used such a collar on a male? How painfull is it ? Do they leave marks, or do any permanant damage? Thank you for your time.slave michael


I used a standard shocking dog collar from Petsmart on an ex sub, but I used it around his genitals. Turned up to the highest level it would really make him jump but obviously did no damage, nor left any marks. It was especially fun to sit next to him in a movie theater, holding the remote control. Also, the range of the remote is very good; you don't have to be right next to each other for it to work. They do say not to use it above the waist.

Smythe


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Profile   Post #: 6
RE: shock collars - 1/24/2006 2:15:28 PM   
Nuke718


Posts: 240
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline 		Never used one, but when the local radio station used one in place of the gong (think Gong Show) during their heavy metal karaoke contest they had to run on a 5 second delay to bleep out all the cursing. So I would say that while not being damaging if used smartly, it is probably quite an attention getter.

Nuke }:-

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RE: shock collars - 1/24/2006 2:26:46 PM   
MistressOfGa


Posts: 2929
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Of course it hurts, what the fuck is the sense of it's being pleasant, pray tell?

Confusedly,
Ron



LMAO!! THIS is the reason I am a Domina lol!! There is no way anyone is going to put a shock collar on me!


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RE: shock collars - 1/24/2006 3:02:26 PM   
pupofMoGa


Posts: 165
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline 		I cant believe anyone would allow someone to put a shock collar around thier neck. It is cruel and inhumane as is. But with an increased risk of damage to the wearer. I shocked my hand with one and it was numb for over an hour. I know my Mistress cares about my health and safety and doesnt need a shock collar to prevent her puppy from running away. And if one does like electrical shocks, try to use something designed for HUMANS such as a violet wand or a tens unit. The person you are playing with could be severely hurt due to misuse and could have the effects for the rest of thier life. Use common sense when playing with someone's life, not common stupidity.

-pup

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RE: shock collars - 1/24/2006 7:57:44 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pupofMoGa

I shocked my hand with one and it was numb for over an hour. if one does like electrical shocks, try to use something designed for HUMANS such as a violet wand or a tens unit. The person you are playing with could be severely hurt due to misuse and could have the effects for the rest of thier life. Use common sense when playing with someone's life, not common stupidity.
-pup


Common sense?

Even tens units designed for humans are dangerous. It only takes .00125 amps across the heart to kill someone. Thats government data folks! ( i always pondered how they got that data? )

You can barely feel a tens unit even at max setting. i measured my mothers at .0033 amps output at max, nearly 2.5 times the known possible fatality level.

i got into this as a child because shocks dont really hurt all that much if there is a good connection between the probe and the skin, at least not until you get to the point of nearly electrocution strength current where it is excrutiatingly painful.

cattle prods are extremely painful when the spark jumps to the skin because it actually burns microscopic canals into the skin much like a violet wand only much deeper and sort of vaporizes anything in its path.

i built one of those little shock boxes when i was a teenager just because it felt neet. Then again as an adult for kink play.

This is where i found out the hard way. After using this several times my heart began to skip beats and it caused arythmia.

scared the hell out of me.

Another thing that is very scary is when i see people that have no clu how dangerous these boxes are using them unsafely. i have pulled several to the side at parties to explain not to put them nipple to nipple or anywhere that the heart is even remotely between the 2 probes because they could kill someone. then i listen to a litany of bs as they quote what the manufacturer said on the box before the "this is a novelty item, use at your own risk" disclaimer. Needless to say that since they did not kill the person it was on they scof at me while the fact of the matter is that i am an electrical engineer.

It took several years before my heart settled down to the point that i did not notice any more problems with it from the electrical play.

My point here being that to make your hand numb it takes several thousands of times the possible lethal amount to have that effect on someone. and to give someone just enough shock to make them jump takes several 100's of times the possible lethal amount. (i own a lab and i measured it!!)

That and electricity does not flow thru a body in a straight line. it forms like an oval so you can attach 2 electrodes one on each hip and it would make a field thru the body in the shape of a symetrical ellipse between the 2 probes.

That and the highest concentration of electrolytes are of course in the blood and lymph system, therefore also the best conductor and of course the blood goes directly through the heart so it goes without saying so does the bulk of the flow of electricity.

Cattle prods dog collars set up to the medium and higher strengths and tasers are way to powerful for safe play on any level. the worst that can happen with consumer tesla coils, violet wands as they were is that you can burn yourself. they too put micro surface holes in the skin that are very shallow. a dash of alchohol really will wake someone up after a dose of resonant rf.

So my advice to those who cant think of anything better, (safer) to do is to keep both probes of these shockers below the waste, (its the best place anyway!), and use it sparingly or better yet pick a different toy from the toy box.

Even below the waste you will still risk causing the problems i had because that is where it was used on me a lot and remember that the rythmn of the heart is governed by electrical signals from the brain and these shockers can interupt and overide them. i hope you all can understand the dangers with this kind of interuption.

be safe
real 1














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RE: shock collars - 1/25/2006 3:57:34 AM   
dorechan


Posts: 37
Joined: 1/17/2006
Status: offline 		I really have to ask : how could a device that sends 3000 times less energy per impulse than an abdominal energizer (0.0003 Joule Vs 0.9 Joule) be considered as extremely dangerous ? I'm talking about the Petsafe collars, other collars send as much energy as an abdominal energizer.
Concerning the 0.012 amps that can kill someone, well, it can happen if you send this current for some undetermined time directly into the heart of someone who has cardiac problems. What does this say about sending current on the skin of a healthy person during 1 msec ?

I'm sure John Warren could say something interesting about this, not sure he would...

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RE: shock collars - 1/29/2006 1:38:23 AM   
CuriousPuppy


Posts: 120
Joined: 6/20/2004
Status: offline 		Sorry about bumping a topic that's a few days old since the last post... but wanted to chime in on the stay away from it front. shock collars are really bad things for humans, that layer of fur does a good job of protecting them from serious harm. Dogs have a pretty thick layer of fur around their neck in comparison to the pathetic layer of fuz humans have. Not only that, the structure of your body is different than your dog's. You can damage your vocal cords, zap your spine, or severly harm yourself by having the muscles contract in a way that your spine really doesn't like.

You can find the topic of shock collars come up on pretty much every puppy play site out there from time to time, and it's always a great big don't touch it with a 10 foot pole style answer on all of them I've ever seen. Given that those sites are typically all about treating a human like a dog, something like a shock collar used specifically for training a human in a more doglike manner being said as a bad bad thing is a pretty telling thing about how bad an idea it is. It's right up there with dogfood is unhealthy and bad for humans.

< Message edited by CuriousPuppy -- 1/29/2006 1:41:57 AM >

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RE: shock collars - 1/29/2006 1:42:08 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousPuppy

Sorry about bumping a topic that's a few days old since the last post... but wanted to chime in on the stay away from it front. shock collars are really bad things for humans, that layer of fur does a good job of protecting them from serious harm. Dogs have a pretty thick layer of fur around their neck in comparison to the pathetic layer of fuz humans have. Not only that, the structure of your body is different than your dog's. You can damage your vocal cords, zap your spine, or severly harm yourself by having the muscles contract in a way that your spine really doesn't like.

Do you know of any documented cases where such harm has taken place from such a device?

~stef

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RE: shock collars - 1/29/2006 2:11:15 AM   
CuriousPuppy


Posts: 120
Joined: 6/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousPuppy

Sorry about bumping a topic that's a few days old since the last post... but wanted to chime in on the stay away from it front. shock collars are really bad things for humans, that layer of fur does a good job of protecting them from serious harm. Dogs have a pretty thick layer of fur around their neck in comparison to the pathetic layer of fuz humans have. Not only that, the structure of your body is different than your dog's. You can damage your vocal cords, zap your spine, or severly harm yourself by having the muscles contract in a way that your spine really doesn't like.

Do you know of any documented cases where such harm has taken place from such a device?

~stef


No but it's not a very common kink/fetish. I've seen the vocal chord bit explained pretty well due to the way humans have their vocal chords in a different area than a dog. The rest always made sense given the lack of fur to keep the electrodes from being right on your skin. I'm actually up far too late and about to head to sleep at the moment or I'd look a bit more to find something. You will often find it come up in a lot of fictional puppy play stories, but any time it comes up in message boards and FAQ's it will be pointed out as incredibly dangerous and bad by lots of folks. Who knows, it could be an urban legend that stuck well due to a small community... but do you really want to take that risk when there are so many less dangerous ways of accomplishing the same thing?

I did pull this however because it came up again recently and I remembered it (so no need to go looking:). Not sure if you can view it without signing up though so I'll copy it into here.

quote:


I was in San Jose, CA this weekend and talked with a guy who was wearing an electro collar. He said it was a combination of this dog lock (www.ruffwear.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.15/it.A/id.1386/.f) and a system built by a company called Innotek (links below).

It is an electronic system so he can only go so far before he gets a shock; anywhere from mild to knock down. I am a wimp, so just a mild shock would do for me.... He had modified the Dog Lock with the Innotek system.

I was looking online to try and find it and saw some others.

www.e-collars.com/do200ncpgo.html
www.lcsupply.com/store/product.cfm?detail=1952&frameDraw=no

then the whole system is at www.lcsupply.com/store/product.cfm?detail=1958&frameDraw=no.

Anyone has any experience with these electronic collars?

THanks in advance.
LDT.


quote:

I have a friend who had a dog shock collar and we played with it. the feeling was not pleasant. (be it on the neck or wrapped around like a cock ring).

why not just get a really nice collar...

then get an eros tek remote control device with blue cock and ball bands.

www.mr-s-leather.com/cgi-bin/mr-s/E302R.html
www.mr-s-leather.com/cgi-bin/mr-s/E25P.html

those will work just great!

James


quote:

In my experience and having owned an Innotek Gun
Dog training collar for some years, with remote, I find the use of shock collars for containment and training purposes ok, of no use in the realm of stimulation -sexual or otherwise for the wearer other than a direct and immediate form of control for the remote holder.
l Innotek would be the most reputable and cost effective here in Australia and www.innotek.com.au has the sales range in Australian dollars so exchange rates could benefit US buyers. I have a waterproof model and whilst the idea seems iviting and exciting the actuality of a fixed weapon to a pups neck begs the question.

Does a handler use fear or reward to train, instill love and obedience or merely chuck on a collar and hope that disabling electrocution will
reward him.

The Human Dog as the Canine is intelligent, responsive and capable of great feats when nurtured- Mind you some dogs love pain, and these collars and the control they exert- just remember the dangers of a stun device placed close to the human throat can cause spasm, contraction and even involuntary convulsion. Imagine Master left the premises with dog collared and active- linked to an electronic containment system with set boundaries. Collar was locked in place and snug- to make effective contact. Master wanted to make sure Dog didnt stray when he wasnt home. Dog tests boundaries as dogs do and helpless gets a dose of electricity which stuns him and incapacitates him, repeatedly shocking him as he was still breaching the boundary- lying incapacitated and helpless his throat swells and he chokes to death. Master comes home to find his dog dead. CSI see a male victim........not a dog.
Innotek is contacted as media ask for a comment" Sorry our product is not warranted for human use, but you can be sure that collar will continue to operate exceeding operational standards and reward its owner in the future."

Far fetched and extreme but liken the play to getting pup to lick a power socket. I have been to electro seminars where consenual partners have used these collars for cock and ball play and recited the joy, but electro is a fine line of pleasure and pain, others have mentioned problems of contact points arcing out- loose contact that when current is applied causes amplification of the current- burn points where contact has arced and at least over application of current which is horrific when the user cannot readily turn it off.

I love the concept- love the control- pups love the idea- its hi tec and cool and in safe sane hands can be fantastic. But like anything,when the novelty subsides or in anothers hands a very large purchase gets shelved, misused, abused or"played with" by the unsuspecting. I keep my sharp knives in the drawer, blender in the cupboard and Innotek collar with my electro gear- away from pups- small children and relatives. Mind you the collar should be left out for some family visitors.......enjoy- explore- and push limits and the envelope- but do it eyes wide open.
regards
The Slave Trainer. www.slave-trainer.com


Bold and underline my own emphasys.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: shock collars - 1/29/2006 8:53:44 AM   
seaturtle50


Posts: 382
Joined: 12/28/2005
Status: offline 		i know that there are a large number of diabetics in the U.S., (estimated at 7% to 10% of U.S. population) and that nearly one third of that group are not even aware that they have the disease.

Since about 65% of all deaths of people with diabetes are related to heart disease, and stroke, it seems to me that this type of play may be acceptionally dangerous to one with diabetes.

Since there are many adults in the US with the disease, it may also seem sane to pre-screen them for diabetes before such play, to alleviate any additional risk to their cardiac health?

i have read that one in three people born in the year 2000, will develop the disease in their lifetime. There are 1.3 million new cases diagnosed each year. This is a very large audience of potential play partners.

Something more to think about and consider.

st50


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RE: shock collars - 1/29/2006 11:33:20 AM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousPuppy

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousPuppy

Sorry about bumping a topic that's a few days old since the last post... but wanted to chime in on the stay away from it front. shock collars are really bad things for humans, that layer of fur does a good job of protecting them from serious harm. Dogs have a pretty thick layer of fur around their neck in comparison to the pathetic layer of fuz humans have. Not only that, the structure of your body is different than your dog's. You can damage your vocal cords, zap your spine, or severly harm yourself by having the muscles contract in a way that your spine really doesn't like.

Do you know of any documented cases where such harm has taken place from such a device?


No but it's not a very common kink/fetish.

<remainder snipped>

So your blanket condemnation is based solely on questionable anecdotal evidence from such trusted sources as 'The-Slave-Trainer?' Do you really think that warranted such a "Chicken Little" response? Over the years, I've shocked myself with a several different collars and haven't experienced any of the deleterious effects your quoted sources refer to. Granted, my limited empirical evidence is only slightly more valuable than anecdotal evidence, but condemning something based on third hand anecdotes is a tad much.

I wouldn't advocate that someone go out to their local Pets 'R' Us, take a shock collar off the shelf then bring it home and strap it on their slave's neck and go to town. That would definitely fall into the stupid category. Are their devices that are safer to use than others? Almost certainly. Does that mean we should condemn the entire activity because there are people who don't choose to take the time and test to find the right "tool" for the job? No.

~stef

_____________________________

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(in reply to CuriousPuppy)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: shock collars - 1/29/2006 12:20:26 PM   
CuriousPuppy


Posts: 120
Joined: 6/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

<remainder snipped>

So your blanket condemnation is based solely on questionable anecdotal evidence from such trusted sources as 'The-Slave-Trainer?' Do you really think that warranted such a "Chicken Little" response? Over the years, I've shocked myself with a several different collars and haven't experienced any of the deleterious effects your quoted sources refer to. Granted, my limited empirical evidence is only slightly more valuable than anecdotal evidence, but condemning something based on third hand anecdotes is a tad much.

I wouldn't advocate that someone go out to their local Pets 'R' Us, take a shock collar off the shelf then bring it home and strap it on their slave's neck and go to town. That would definitely fall into the stupid category. Are their devices that are safer to use than others? Almost certainly. Does that mean we should condemn the entire activity because there are people who don't choose to take the time and test to find the right "tool" for the job? No.

~stef


I'm off to work and don't have time for your crap right now. I made it quite clear in my last post that I was heading off to sleep and didn't have time to do more looking. In fact the only reason I bothered to even quote the thread I liked to, was because it had come up somewhere else in the last few days and it came to mind so there was no need to go searching.

If you don't want to believe that placing electrodes against the neck and throat is dangerous, then good for you. I just hope it's your own throat and neck your putting them on and not someone else's. I hope that the next time some new random person like servitude69, with one post to their name, comes in asking safety questions about a topic they are have no experience with and have only heard of... that you don't try to give them a blanket "oh sure it's safe just be careful" like your appearing to do right now.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: shock collars - 1/29/2006 1:00:52 PM   
CuriousPuppy


Posts: 120
Joined: 6/20/2004
Status: offline 		Actually... I decided to skip breakfast and post this instead.
quote:

http://www.gemore.com.tw/4-1.htm
Warnings
• Do not place electrodes on front of the throat. This may result is spasms of the laryngeal
　and pharyngeal muscles.
• Do not place the electrodes over the carotid nerve.


quote:

http://www.tensunits.com/whatistens.htm
People who should not use TENS:
# Around the head
# With the electrodes placed on the neck near carotid


quote:

http://www.birthsource.com/scripts/article.asp?articleid=144
Putting the electrodes in the correct place is very important. If the electrodes are put in the wrong place your pain may not be lessened. The pain could even get worse if the electrodes are placed incorrectly. The electrodes should never be put near the eyes. The electrodes should also not be put over the nerves from the neck to the throat or brain.


quote:

http://www.metalmedic.com/TENS/tens-unit.html
do not stimulate over the eyes or carotid sinus nerves


TENS units are medical devices (that the bdsm world has adopted quite happily) made to zap people with electricity shock collars are made to zap your dog... So I'll turn your own words around stef. Who do you trust more? Some random person who tells you shock collars are safe for people, or the manufacturers and suppliers of TENS units/medical supplies saying that electrical shock near tne neck and throat is a bad bad bad idea?

< Message edited by CuriousPuppy -- 1/29/2006 1:05:04 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: shock collars - 1/29/2006 3:09:19 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef
So your blanket condemnation is based solely on questionable anecdotal evidence from such trusted sources as 'The-Slave-Trainer?' Do you really think that warranted such a "Chicken Little" response? Over the years, I've shocked myself with a several different collars and haven't experienced any of the deleterious effects your quoted sources refer to. Granted, my limited empirical evidence is only slightly more valuable than anecdotal evidence, but condemning something based on third hand anecdotes is a tad much.

I wouldn't advocate that someone go out to their local Pets 'R' Us, take a shock collar off the shelf then bring it home and strap it on their slave's neck and go to town. That would definitely fall into the stupid category. Are their devices that are safer to use than others? Almost certainly. Does that mean we should condemn the entire activity because there are people who don't choose to take the time and test to find the right "tool" for the job? No.

~stef


Would you like to see my medical records that document the arythmia and missed beats?

Hey if you think its safe go strap yourself into the electric chair if you like but to down play its dangers only because you are alive to talk about it to me seems a bit irresponsible.

Many people have no clu where different problems originate so finding data on this subject will be quite difficult i am sure. What is the likelihood a patient will go to the doctor and say gee doc think its cuz of the shock device? Most people have no clu to even ask question much less look into it.

btw i am fine now, and no more juice for me tho i admit i loved the way it felt.

r1

edited typos

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/29/2006 3:12:07 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: shock collars - 1/29/2006 5:22:48 PM   
lonewolfe


Posts: 12
Joined: 1/25/2006
Status: offline 		I must say that the whole idea of a shock collar on my neck or any ones seems crazy to me. I've seen video demonstrations of the shock belts used to control inmates in prisons. I have to call it real torture, as opposed to kinky.

My experience is limited to a mistress face sitting me and using a violet wand and that bug zapper paddle thing on my privates. But a shock collar in BDSM has to be too much.

Curious, anyone here ever been on the receiving end of a tens unit? How about cattle prod? Now that can't be the same prod as used on cows.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 20
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