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RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 12:43:22 PM   
veronicaofML


Posts: 1317
Joined: 11/19/2005
From: from iowa..now in wisconsin
Status: offline
::thinking I'm not the ONLY one who's a bitatruble around here::

Ever ask your Mistress to change your name from Veronica to Wiseass?

Celeste

-------------

hey
i try hard
ya know?


_____________________________

drugs sex and rock n roll,...drugs are good and so is the rock n roll, sex is over rated"
=============
"go straight to hell, do not pass go and do not collect $200"



(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 12:45:01 PM   
UtahGoddess


Posts: 205
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Utah
Status: offline

LOL Celeste!

I am glad to see my coffee recipe has standed the test of time. <laffin> I forget how long ago your public collaring was....9, 10 years ago? Time flies. I miss you guys. I still laugh sometimes recalling Michael's wit and humor. I have searched for years to find another couple with whom I was so compatible, to no avail. You were, and still are originals. :)

As to my original post....I stand behind my original statements.

Ms Sandi

_____________________________

"The Masochist desires to experience stronger sensations, but desires that it should be inflicted with Love. The Sadist desires to inflict stronger sensations, but desires that it should be felt as Love" Havelock Ellis The Project Gutenberg

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 1:23:47 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Well gee, thanks for the public berating of a newcomer, Celeste, if that was indeed your attempt.

No limits to my Master. i kind of assumed that would be taken in context since i said it was between my Master and i.

Regardless, there is no need to debate one who would rather attack. i do wish you well.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 1:51:55 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Well gee, thanks for the public berating of a newcomer, Celeste, if that was indeed your attempt.

No limits to my Master. i kind of assumed that would be taken in context since i said it was between my Master and i.

Regardless, there is no need to debate one who would rather attack. i do wish you well.




You were feeling irritated by the 'absolutes' being stated as fact. I simply pointed out that you needn't feel irritated because she clearly stated it was 'her' view. That is the only portion of 'your' post to which I replied. Should Sandi consider you were attacking her because you posted a response which disagreed with her own or that you got irritated because she presented her own view? Six of one, half a dozen of another in my view.

The rest was simply 'my' view on the term 'no limits' which does happen to agree with Sandi's because it's very literal and I'm a literalist. It really had nothing to do with the rest of your post because you 'did' qualify what you wrote so it didn't apply to you.

You came to my post already irritated, so maybe you took things wrong since you were already in a certain frame of mind. I certainly didn't mean it as an attack on a newcomer. Hell, I haven't been here that long myself. Neither, though, am I going to gag myself when I feel strongly about an issue just because someone may be new whether to forums or BDSM in general. I work on the assumption that we're all adults and can handle a bit of heat given our chosen lifestyle. In any event, you don't have to debate with me, read my posts or speak to me if you don't want to, but I can be a lot of fun if you get to know me. I certainly don't hold the delusion that everyone likes me. ::chuckles:: Far from it in fact, so it's all good.

Thanks for the well wishes.. I do quite well indeed and wish you the same right back.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 2:27:48 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Actually i did not state that Ms Sandi said anything as fact. i saw clearly that she had qualified her remark. i was commenting on various other posts on the thread and comments i hear in general. my post was not directly aimed at her nor at anyone in particular on this thread, but i do have the freedom of disagreeing with someone who doesn't know me yet who thinks i am insane somehow.

However, you asked if i would follow orders from a complete stranger. Why would i do that? my post was in the context of service to my Master. i have no limits of my own with my Master, other than what he decides they are. Nothing more, nothing less. Perhaps i should have stated that. If i sound like i am "off the deep end" to you, it was because my post was misunderstood. you are, however, free to think of me what you wish. Perhaps you were saying "you" as a generalizatoin at that point, but it seemed in reading it that it was directed toward me/my post.

Perhaps this was simply a case of miscommunication/misunderstanding.

In turn, i do quite well myself as well, nor am i truly irritated by anything. People will think and believe what people will think and believe, and the beauty is that regardless of such differing views, we can all come together to discuss a wonderful lifestyle. i will admit that perhaps i should have begun my post without a negative statement.

In any case, i thank you for your follow up reply.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 2:34:46 PM   
yourMissTress


Posts: 1665
Joined: 6/14/2005
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		Ms. Sandi, thank you for a wonderful post. I hope to add my own thoughts here with the same class and dignity that you posted your own.

I must whole heartedly agree with you on all points, especially #1. I find the "slaves have no limits" idea to be ridiculous. The "masters/mistress'" that seek out a slave that will agree to no limits, to me, are akin to the men and women that seek out a partner with the lowest possible self esteem i.e. the easiest to control and abuse. (Now, please, let me say this here, if I/we/you are talking about someone that has a "slave" who lives a few hundred or so miles away and that "slave" is allowed no limits...well umm ok your master/mistresshood is entirely fantasy anyway.)(dang it, there went the dignity out the window...oops!)

AAAANyway....back to the point I was making. Predators exist on every level and it's easiest for them to seek out the weakest prey. It behooves someone that wants to be the Master/Mistress but doesn't have the ability to dominate to look for partners that have very little backbone or strength to begin with. As most of us know, those who are desperate for love and affection will often times agree to anything in exchange for those things.

Flame away...but before you do, I am NOT talking about M/s relationships that have been ongoing for umpteen years and limits are no longer necessary.

_____________________________

Tress


"If you have to tell people that you are a lady, you are not." My Grandmother


(in reply to UtahGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 2:44:26 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

Perhaps this was simply a case of miscommunication/misunderstanding.


I do believe that's what it was and hopefully, we can just move along now because I don't think you're insane.. although I do doubt my own sanity on occasion, so really am in no position to judge. ::chuckles:: And yes, my 'you's' were generic you's. I'll try to be more clear from now on so that I'm not misunderstood by my inept writing abilities.

I hope you enjoy the forums as much as I do.. and that you don't do anything to get yourself banned from them like I did. lol

Hey.. BitaTruble.. it's a name I live up to even if it's accidently sometimes. :)

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 3:20:53 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		Wonderful topic.

Utopia ...
... everyone that has any interest in this lifestyle, strives to be a paragon of submission of mastery, willing to sacrifice all they have for another person, or take complete control of another person's life.

Reality ...
... B stands for bondage, D for discipline, S for sado-, m for masochism. If you do any one, you qualify. if you do two, you are probably the average, if you do three you are in the upper half. Can't they make a board for kinky sensation players?

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 5:07:40 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		It's still early enough for a shot of 1800 and double rum and coke....

Kicks back on the sofa.... thinking fo OP.

Seems for most part... everyone taken and ripped open and did a nice autopsy on the limits and non limits. And the being human and capable of making mistakes. So I'm going to hit another part of this.

4) The subslave is really in control.
5) The Dom/me is really in control.

I grouped these last 2 together. The answer is "Yes".


I've made this comment a few times.... Who really is in control of said relationships?

I'm interested on seeing where others thing on this. As a submissive... I know I've given control over to my Master... but to what extent?

Does control stop in the bedroom? Not in our relationship no. But how about others?

Child raising? I have mine, he has his. Does my idea and thoughts of raising change to his because he's Master now... even though I might not agree with some of the punishments.... or awardings?

House work..... his way only? Done the way he/she wants every single time? In order they want done?

Laundry? Done at certain times, certain way, folded certain way?

Movies and tv shows?... Only what Master wants each and every time? Reguardless of what you are use to and like?

Things like this may seems small... petty... to some. But these are things some.. not all.. work into their "agreements" when entering upon relationships.

When agreeing to submit all control... just how much control is really submitted? And who really has the control over all? Including the pretty little petty things as well?

Inquiring minds are curious.

Master and I have a very open relationship that we actually discuss these things. Multi- tv's in the house. Shared chores, and communication on the child raising with the agreement not to dispute each other in front of kids. And as far as bedroom.. openly discussing feelings... moods.. to know where and if things will or will not happen. Subject to be tested later during play to see if minds.. moods.. have changed.

I just wonder... how far others go.. in submitting control over to others.

UtahGoddess... thanks for the great post... and the thinking it took to actually be able to ask a question... with in your questions.

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to yourMissTress)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 6:51:11 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

Perhaps this was simply a case of miscommunication/misunderstanding.


I do believe that's what it was and hopefully, we can just move along now because I don't think you're insane.. although I do doubt my own sanity on occasion, so really am in no position to judge. ::chuckles:: And yes, my 'you's' were generic you's. I'll try to be more clear from now on so that I'm not misunderstood by my inept writing abilities.

I hope you enjoy the forums as much as I do.. and that you don't do anything to get yourself banned from them like I did. lol

Hey.. BitaTruble.. it's a name I live up to even if it's accidently sometimes. :)

Celeste


Thanks for your post. It's probably likely that we are BOTH a bit insane to some degree! i agree, let's move this baby right along.... :)

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 7:38:06 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:


Does control stop in the bedroom? Not in our relationship no. But how about others?


For us, it didn't even start there. ::chuckles::

quote:

Child raising? I have mine, he has his. Does my idea and thoughts of raising change to his because he's Master now... even though I might not agree with some of the punishments.... or awardings?


Wow, this is a toughie because we have three children between us, but they were adults by the time we met so it's not something which we, personally, had to go through. When I think of the kids, I think of all of them as 'ours' and not his or mine. We help out if one of them needs help. I know what I'd 'like' to think about it which is he is such an incredible Dad and we think so much alike in the parenting area that it wouldn't have been an issue, but honestly, I just don't know. If Himself, as an example, ordered me not to talk on the cell phone so much because it was running up the phone bill by my talking to my daughter.. I'd quit talking on the cell phone so much and use the land line instead. If he ordered me not to talk to her at all, just because he could order it I would have to seriously question my own perceptions of the man whose collar and wedding ring I wear.

quote:

House work..... his way only? Done the way he/she wants every single time? In order they want done?


Much easier ?, thank you! I do all the housework exactly as he likes, his way, every single time. He doesn't care about the order, as long as it gets done, but because of the way that I am, I do have a schedule. Laundry on Monday's, bathrooms before Survivor on Thursday, all the laundry folded the way he likes and put away in the drawers he's designated, dishes always done immediately after dinner etc.


quote:

Movies and tv shows?... Only what Master wants each and every time? Reguardless of what you are use to and like?


Multi television set household here, but if it weren't, I would have to learn to like South Park or see if he allowed me to do something else while he watched people blowing up each other on some war show. There have been many occasions where he had me sit and watch his shows just because he wanted me near him. It's not a problem at all.

quote:

Things like this may seems small... petty... to some. But these are things some.. not all.. work into their "agreements" when entering upon relationships.


We didn't specifically sit down and discuss these issues per se, but then it never really seemed necessary to do so. His way is just the way it is. I'm aware of it, am comfortable with it and knowing it's this way allows me to have a comfort zone.

quote:

When agreeing to submit all control... just how much control is really submitted? And who really has the control over all? Including the pretty little petty things as well?


I'm sitting here trying to think of what I truly have control over and what I do not. About the only thing I really control are my reactions to my surroundings and situations. That's about it. I take care of the mundane day to day living things. The shopping, pay the bills, dishes, laundry and things of that nature and he trusts me to do it all right. When he wants to see the checkbook to make sure I'm accurate, it's his to see. As to who really has the control.. well, he does. I have the choice to leave or do things his way which I believe relates to what I said about controlling my own reactions. That said, having the choice to leave and being capable of leaving something which brings me so much happiness and is so in tune with what I have longed for my whole life is quite another story.

Great questions. :)

Celeste

I just asked Himself this question: "Sir, what do I have control over in our relationship?"

His response - "Absolutely nothing."

Guess it would have been a lot easier to just ask him first.. but then.. it usually is. lol





_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 7:55:37 PM   
BlkTallFullfig


Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline 		Great post and great comments followed... Now if only we could force everyone to come read, especially the newbies and the no limits folks. M

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to UtahGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 8:42:35 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble



quote:

Child raising? I have mine, he has his. Does my idea and thoughts of raising change to his because he's Master now... even though I might not agree with some of the punishments.... or awardings?


Wow, this is a toughie because we have three children between us, but they were adults by the time we met so it's not something which we, personally, had to go through. When I think of the kids, I think of all of them as 'ours' and not his or mine. We help out if one of them needs help. I know what I'd 'like' to think about it which is he is such an incredible Dad and we think so much alike in the parenting area that it wouldn't have been an issue, but honestly, I just don't know. If Himself, as an example, ordered me not to talk on the cell phone so much because it was running up the phone bill by my talking to my daughter.. I'd quit talking on the cell phone so much and use the land line instead. If he ordered me not to talk to her at all, just because he could order it I would have to seriously question my own perceptions of the man whose collar and wedding ring I wear.






I don't dispute the "Our" children remark here. Because we both feel the same way. I think I was should of reworded. Master is a wonderful father as well to "our" kids. Got no problems there.

What I was refering to... (yours were grown you said so this is for the not so grown ones...lol)... Ok take for instant.. I would love to see my kids run straight As ok with Bs on report cards.. I won't tolerate anything under a C. Ok, here comes Master who demmands nothing under a B. (Hypothically now). Kids come home with a C. He pops down say a month punishement from what ever (Cds, games, friends, phone whatever). And of course, you think this is a little harsh.... being one NOT to dispute this in front of kids... (i'm also not one to remove a punishment once it's stated).... before said punishement is announced.. talking it over first I think should be done.

But the question was... (I know, I went the scenic route here.. LOL) raising your kids one way... Mater raising his/her another.... who submits control of this to said owner... on the note of submitting ones whole life?... When one submits their life.... does this include submitting the kids to.. SO TO SPEAK.. don't think i'm going there with this when i'm not!!!!!!... LOL I'm simply refering to child raising... punishments and awards...


Thanks for the response bitatruble.... exactly what i was asking too.

< Message edited by truesub4u -- 2/9/2006 8:43:35 PM >

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 9:13:11 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline
quote:

1) There is no Utopia where subs/slaves have no limits.

If you have absolutely no limits you are either insane or dillusional. Everyone has limits. Even Dom/mes. The best relationships are those in which limits are in harmony and so are no longer a factor.

2) There is no Utopia where Dom/mes are always right and noble.

We are human beings. We make mistakes. We stumble and sometimes fall short of ideals and make wrong decisions. As human we are fallable.

3) Slaves never disagree with their Master or Mistress.

I have yet to meet any human being on the planet that I didn't have a difference of opinion with over something. Because my slave surrenders to me does not mean I expect him to discard his common sense or echo only the views I allow him to have.
If I were to decide tomorrow that I want to use our life savings to buy corn puffs, I would expect my slave to challenge my decision based on what is best for US.


Number two - i have a hard time swallowing. They HAVE to be perfect, but only so they can be better then me since i am near perfect <chuckles> Seriously tho, i think i do on a day to day basis have a difficult time remembering that.

number three - WHEW good to hear that!

Number one - i'm sort of coming around to agreeing with you. i suppose what i've always tried to say was that limits are no longer a factor in my relationship. But then again, my clit got pierced and it wasnt something i wanted to do, it'd of been nice if it had been a limit! LOL And though i think he'd like to pierce it again (which i'd have no say over) he wont atleast for a long while, because its his choice for me. But i think the harmony is a beautiful way to say it

(in reply to UtahGoddess)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 9:15:45 PM   
Evanesce


Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Reality: come over with that attitude sunshine and any self respecting sub is going to tell you to shove your head back up your ass!


Nah... they'll just tell you to get a glass belly button so you can see where you're going.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich


(in reply to RavenMuse)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 9:30:06 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		i absolutely loved your last post, Celeste! And i couldn't watch South Park, either. Hmm, i wonder if i could come up with that as my first "hard limit?" :)

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 9:35:20 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

i absolutely loved your last post, Celeste! And i couldn't watch South Park, either. Hmm, i wonder if i could come up with that as my first "hard limit?" :)



Hell it is one of mine... South Park doesn't play on a single TV in this house... not for me.. kids.. or Master... bad enough I have to put up with Sponge Bob... LMAO

_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 9:43:19 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

Sponge Bob


Happy Birthday.

::stomps off grumbling about having to safeword for the first time in 10 years::

I get these visions of having to use my safeword when it's actually Himself's birthday and him just saying.. thanks, wench.

:;chuckles::

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to truesub4u)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 10:23:15 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline




quote:

::stomps off grumbling about having to safeword for the first time in 10 years::


Okay i burst out laughing. Fortunately i am too busy to watch TV. When i am not with Himself i am working or at school or working for Himself. TV hasn't been on in weeks. But...Spongebob, huh? i can honestly say i have not watched one episode. my sister (with kids) had to tell me what the hell a spongebob was. All i can say is.....No thanks.

However, if it helps any, he insists on keeping the TV on all night while he sleeps - - loud. Can anyone say infomercial? Maybe Spongebob isn't so bad....

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Utopia vs Reality - 2/9/2006 10:31:12 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

But...Spongebob, huh? i can honestly say i have not watched one episode.


I spent two weeks with my grandsons at Xmas and they own that movie .. and the youngest one ::the DOM of that house:: wanted to watch it every single day. ::sighs:: And yes, I have added it to my very short list of hard limits. I didn't know what a Spongebob was either.. and now my brain's polluted and it's too late for me.. but, save yourself while you still can!

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 40
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