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RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 11/28/2009 9:58:40 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
I enjoy talking about it LadyPact, because understanding what makes other femdoms tick helps me understand myself, and also understand what bottoms and submissives might be experiencing and building their perceptions on based on their interactions with other femdoms in the world.

I think I'm hyper-sensual and hyper-empathic and my "topping scenes," so to speak, are measured in success by how engrossed I can become in the way the man submits physically to me, and not so much about my actions.  Back when I was a teenager and bondage was my main focus, and I had no idea what I was doing, I was just responding to lustful urges, it was pretty simple:  Taking my boyfriend and tying his wrists together isn't what turned me on, it was the way he reacted to it, right down to what he did with his fingers to how he moved his hips to whether his breathing changed.  Not the act of me tying the knot, clicking the cuffs or tightening the buckle.

I don't get off on flogging; I get off on the way his body reacts, the was his breathing changes and what makes him sweat.  I get hot from things like changes in tone of voice and muffled whimpers.  I love a good grimace.  If I topped someone who had zero reaction physically, I'd get bored and drained.

There's an entire emotional level, also. This is trickier to define and it's "icing on the cake" and harder to get.  I need to feel that I am getting authentic vulnerability from him.  I have to know, from his body language, his words and everything combined that he's at a point that he is suffering for me in a manner that would not be tolerable for any other reason than to please me or turn me on.  This is why I don't generally connect with masochists, but more with men who get excited by a woman who bends his will and uses pain as a tool.  I enjoy a man who wants to be seduced into desiring pain for me, because it turns me on, not turns him on.

The other difference I think here is that my topping, while not sexual blatantly, is highly sexualized on one level, and TOTALLY sensual on another.  I like close body contact, a lot of touching, feeling breath on my skin, biting, hair pulling -- all things that are very touchy-feely but are not, in and of themselves, sex.  It's highly sexualized for me because as foreplay nothing makes me wetter faster and nothing makes me more ravenous - however, the foreplay, for whatever reason, doesn't make me long for sex, it makes me long for more surrender from the man.   Whether or not I intend to have sexual intercourse of any kind with the man, I do know that by using my own sexual arousal as a carrot - which is easy, as it's blatantly clear - is the best way to get a man to push his own limits for me.  It's all very good so long as all parties are aware of the sexual limits.

In other threads I have agonized a bit over the one stumbling block in my open relationship, and that's that even though I don't need/want to have sexual intercourse with my outside partners, there's no doubt my playstyle when I top is highly sensual.  The stumbling block is the act of kissing, and whether or not it's an act of intimacy (romantic) or an act of dominance (lust) and whether or not it's ok.  We have not come to a consensus on that one.

Akasha


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(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 11/28/2009 10:09:27 AM   
pinnipedster


Posts: 217
Joined: 4/17/2008
Status: offline 		I was going to start a thread on a similar subject, but since this one is here already....

My housemate and I were watching Elizabeth I: The Virgin Queen last night, and at one point she says something interesting.  On the one hand, she makes it very clear that she isn't going to submit to a husband (when one of her counselors is urging her to marry, for the sake of having an heir, he then adds "And besides, he would relieve you from the burdens of dealing with matters of state," which is of course exactly the wrong thing to say).  But when another suggests that part of the negotiations for marriage be that the husband agrees to let her run things, she reacts with contempt, saying that no man who would agree to those conditions would ever share her bed.

Obviously, this is a conflict -- she won't let a man dominate her, but she doesn't have enough respect for one who would submit to her enough to consider marrying him.

I know I've read of some similar issues with career-focused women.  As women get more successful in business and the professions, there can be conflict with a mate who is similarly focused, since sometimes one partner or the other is likely to have to make sacrifices to keep the relationship working.  But, even successful career women tend to prefer partners who are at least as successful as they are; which ends up exacerbating the problem. 

I wonder if Dominant women sometimes face a similar problem: of being mainly attracted to the kind of men who are least likely to let them take charge.

My housemate, who has Dominant inclinations herself (though sadly, not towards me -- and I'm sure all this has something to do with is) and is also a Navy veteran, says she thinks that's one reason she always found Marines so attractive.  On the one hand, there's no one more macho than a Marine -- but on the other hand, they definitely can take orders! 

Of course, the key is that they're not going to take orders from just anyone -- only from someone who has earned their respect.  It seems that this is something many Dominant women crave -- to have someone who won't submit to just anyone, but who is willing to do anything for her in particular. 

All this is of course frustrating to many of us who are not only openly submissive, but also by no stretch of the imagination Alpha-male types.  With Dominant women already scarce, and many submissive men going begging (so to speak), it's incredibly frustrating when the women seek submissives outside the community.  I've had a similar issue for years as a science fiction fan and gamer.  Men outnumber women in those communities, too (though not to the extent they used to), so when a fangirl starts dating a guy who isn't a fan, it seems somehow....unfair.  We fanboys have to deal with the notion that most women think we're hopeless dorks, so it seems wrong that women who actually share our interests would wind up dating non-fans, too.

So...I would be curious to know: what's a submissive to do?  Pretend not to be submissive in hopes that this will somehow make him more attractive to Dominant women?  That not only seems a bit dishonest, but like it's not apt to be particularly effective, either, since there are still few enough Dominant women out there to keep the odds against him.  I've had a similar issue with my crossdressing.  Some Dominants seem to find the idea of feminizing a guy intriguing, but only if he's a guy who doesn't want to be feminized.  And, to be sure, I have very powerful fantasies about the notion of being dressed up (not necessarily "forced") by a woman who has no idea that it's something I enjoy and have experience in. 

But, on the other hand, I could wait all my life without that ever happening, so I've chosen to pursue it more openly -- if I never get someone else to dress me up, at least I can dress myself up (and I have had some help from women from time to time, in a more vanilla and non-sexual fashion).  Submission or bottoming is another matter -- there seems little point to submitting to, well, nobody.  I've done a tiny bit of self-bondage in the past, but it loses 95% of its appeal when there's no one there to take advantage of the opportunity to tease and torment you, or at least to keep you bound as long as she cares to. 

Anyway, that's a lot of rambling in a few different directions.  Your thoughts appreciated.

(in reply to Venatrix)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 11/28/2009 6:50:40 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		Whoa! You were busy while I was busy, away! Ok, here goes one mother of a big post. I wish I could address all said but then I’d probably annoy most of you ;-)  
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Well, between this and the hockey thing, it's clear we were separated at birth, LadyAngelika.


Indeed!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
A huge part of the lust/satisfaction I get from domination is the rush from seeing a man surrender to my desires, despite his own fear, discomfort, shame or vulnerability.  While this CAN be accomplished with a full-blown "wired submissive," I just have found, in my experience, it's somehow easier to obtain from joe blow vanilla who sees kink and submission as a bit foreign, frightening, but so worth it because he likes to see what it does to me.  The drawback with these men, though, is they have a lower threshold I have found, and, they don't understand that kink isn't just something "I do," it is part of "who I am."  A full blown submissive understands this need because he feels it himself.


I get that too. I've had that struggle as well. It's kind of like "well it's not play time now" response. While I never considered myself a lifestyler nor am I involved in any local community, I have my own form of dominance which is hard wired in my personality. I also have sadistic tendencies hardwired too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

I have often wondered if my inclination/attraction toward these "non-sub" types is just a result of having dominated so many vanilla guys before discovering the world of organized S&M via web sites like this, fetish parties and whatnot.  As soon as I was old enough to figure out boys didn't have cooties, I was trying to get a handle on how I could get them to submit to my urges for bondage and suffering -- and I spent many nervous, excited nights trying to explain to a vanilla boyfriend how he needed to surrender to me, and then I learned that seduction was the key.  The act of being a predatory, lustful, seductive, mysterious cruel woman was pure nirvana for me.  Finding out how to "take down" a guy was delicious and exciting.


Exactly! The thrill of the hunt.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Submissives, while "too easy" on some level, have shown me one very important thing:  A submissive who is patient, playful, sexy and possesses a knack for empathy is far more rewarding to dominate than an unsuspecting but alluring vanilla prey. But those are so, so hard to find; whereas vanilla men are more accessible - those who appreciate and are willing/open minded to surrender, and possess authentic fear and uneasiness and also need to be seduced and bent to my will are absolutely *captivating* to control.  But they either "get it" and are wonderfully easy to cultivate, or they "don't get it" and they have limitations that frustrate both of us.

Akasha


Thank you for that insight Akasha. I came close to finding the right balance a few times and I haven't given up obviously. But what a rare combination to find...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Maria on JustStephen's profile

I look on the scene for males because I can't be bothered to go through a lengthy grooming process before a vanilla man would 'perhaps' consider taking my pain or go through an emotional process and perhaps not be able to accept that I will lead him but I do tend to go for the male subs that have a more 'I can take it or leave it' attitude. I certainly don't go after the guys that will do 'anything' so long as I want it. Like you I want to capture and enslave them and not have a ready made one.


Well since I find the boys I meet who are self-identified submissives are usually not even close to what I'm looking for, the effort into grooming them into what I want would be equal starting from a ready made or a newbie for me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Underumam

I've been thinking a bit about this one overnight, as something was bugging me about this topic in general. The best way to describe it would be the "label" of a sub or even a Dominant for that matter.


Your whole post was compelling Underumam. I'm only going to address bits of it, but first let me say it was never my intent to box anyone in. I know you understand that I was simply speaking from my experience to date.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Underumam

In short, each person has not only the right, but the responsibility to know themselves, and to present their TRUE selves to the world as much as possible. I call this personal integrity.


This is a learned skill, rather than an innate one, so it's hard to expect it from people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Underumam

So, Lady Angelika, Your situation does not suprise me, as there are a great many truly submissive men in the vanilla world who have not been labeled as such, and it seems that You enjoy searching them out, and "assisting" them in finding their true inner nature.


That is only if they are willing to accept it in themselves. What Akasha was talking about earlier, and it has been my experience also, is that many aren't ready to. And I do agree with what Maria and LadyPact say in following posts about this not being all black and white.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Underumam

Thanks to You and others who have helped us to break the chains of worldy bondage, and substitute them with the chains of this lifestyle. We are all much happier now. lol.


Aw that is sweet ;-)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stripmymanhood

Some people need to be hunted....some need to be the hunter...some just pray things fall in their lap...i am open about my desire to submit, but at the same time...i don't give my submission to just anyone...


This is great! Do you know that since I put this post up, 5 boys who once wrote to me as begging, sniffling little spineless jellyfishes wrote back being all alpha like saying that originally thought I wanted spineless.

I say that if you don't present your true authentic self, you'll never find your true authentic match.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stripmymanhood

If you wish to hunt...then hunt...you will find the one you want...as i remember you (we used to talk when i used a different name a few yrs back - sting516)...you know what you want...and you always seemed passionate enough to me to get what you want...i wish you the best of luck...and your prey will be very fortunate indeed!


Welly welly well! I do remember you sting516. I hope you are doing well :-) And thanks for the warm wishes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I  could say, "Welcome to My world," LadyAngelika, but you know the story as well as I do! 


Indeed!

[...]
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
What many many of them are is what fetlife calls "Kinksters".  I love that word!!


It's definitely an alternative to Dom/sub, that's for sure!

[...]
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I want what I want, and I do NOT do well with passive, shy, diffident  people.   Yes, I am not desirous of prey that exposes its neck on the first date!  I expect to be challenged, tested, examined, in the same way that I will be challenging him or her.  Am I am good dominant?  Mostly.  That does not mean that I am everyone's good dominant.   Hmph. 


In my eyes, you are fabulous ;-) If I find a good one, I'll clone him so you can have one too! ;-)  
quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix
It's wonderful to find someone who isn't initially all about kink, but if someone keeps fighting you on what you want, why be with him?  I don't think the OP was referring to a situation like that, but rather finding someone who isn't so wrapped up in his kink that any femdom will do, hence her reference to 'captivation', which I completely understand and agree with.


You hit the nail on the head. I want a proud man who would never consider submitting to any other woman than me ;-)  
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Whether you introduce him to all these ideas, or he reads about it online, eventually he will have experience. And then what? You drop him to chase some other newby. I hope you tell him first off that you don't have relationships so he shouldn't get emotionally involved.


I can't speak for other women, but once I capture a man and lead him down this path, I absolutely don't want to let him go. In the past however, other factors have lead to the demise of the relationships.

quote:

SOURCE: Antoine de Saint-Exupery, from one of my favorite books ever, Le Petit Prince, translated to English (and invert the gender!)
"You're lovely, but you're empty," he went on. "One couldn't die for you. Of course an ordinary passerby would think my rose looked just like you. But my rose, all on her own, is more important than you altogether, since she's the one I've watered. Since she's the one I put under glass. Since she's the one I sheltered behind a screen. Since she's the one for whom I killed the caterpillars (except for two or three for butterflies). Since's she the one I listened to when she complained, or when she boasted, or even sometimes when she said nothing at all. Since she's my rose."

- LA



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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 11/28/2009 8:18:53 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Pinnipedster, if you only KNEW how much I want a pet jarhead!! The dream will not die...

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 11/28/2009 8:28:43 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Skilled bottoms (to me) are like a lottery ticket.  It's a goldmine when I find one.  If a bottom just existed to endure and be the recipient, then really you couldn't say that dominating Joe 1 was better than dominating Joe 2, except that Joe 2 painted your kitchen.  I think bottoming is a skill.  I think it's like making love - some men are good at it, some are bad at it, some are selfish, some are selfless, and others are just inexperienced.   Sure, all kinky men will eagerly offer it (just like most men will line up to get laid), but are they any good at it?

Is it feasible that you have dominated a man who was SO incredibly giving - chores, massages, you name it, but he was just a really, really bad bottom?  Is that possible?  I would say absolutely YES.  I envision the uber-sub, robotic type (as an example) who says "yes Mistress" every three seconds (for an hour) and constantly interrupts the dominants flow by asking things like, "does this please you? does this please you? does this please you?" -- or just stares at the floor the whole time (protocol you can't break) or adopts a very simpering, worm-like persona (because that's "just who he is when he bottoms") -- No amount of free labor is worth that!

Bottoming takes skill.  Not just "how much can a man endure" but this is it:  His capacity to observe, understand, interpret, and ultimately predict the sadist's pleasure - AND, to understand her hot buttons so he can make the scene as exciting and rewarding as possible for her. It's just like making love. He has to understand what makes her tick, and then be an active participant - not just a crash test dummy - to make sure she's getting all she wants and needs from his bottoming. 

If you give me 5 men and line them up to endure a flogging, or a cbt scene, or strap on play, I can tell you that I would be able to rank them in capability at bottoming, regardless of their service capabilities. You give those same 5 guys to another femdom and she may rank them differently. You do it with another femdom, and again, different results; however, I would bet you'd see the skilled bottoms ranking toward the top in ALL groups, because they are adopting their bottoming style to what makes the lady tick.

Akasha


I totally concur!

- LA


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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to AAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 11/28/2009 8:30:28 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

I wanted to add that, in many cases, vanilla men, even those who are just friends, do little (or even big) things to see a woman happy.  Throw kink into the mix, and it often becomes a case of, "Oh, we don't have an official relationship, so I'm not going to do those things yet."  So, the irony is that submissive men looking for a potential relationship are often a lot less submissive than vanilla men who are just friends.  Go figure.


Bingo!!!! You keep nailing that nail right on the head!

Vanilla men go leaps and bounds further to court me than any "submissive" man has ever!

- LA


_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Profile   Post #: 66
RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 11/28/2009 8:34:04 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
A bottom submitting to sensory deprivation, extreme bondage, or other very limiting things must have skill; in fact, he has to have even more skill because he's limited in his ability to communicate to me. 

What makes a good bottom?  A man who works to make himself interesting, exciting, enticing, challenging (but not smart ass), sensual prey. Versus a man who merely is present and endures. 

My desire to dominate isn't an arbitrary sort of pleasure or enjoyment like playing tennis, it's more of a bloodlust (minus the blood) kind of "hunger." At times I wonder if I am the only woman wired like this.  While most of the time I may be just content, I get urges to see a man submit that are very primal and lustful, more powerful and distracting than the desire for sex (comparing it to physical arousal).  What I hunger for, though, is the feeling that I get from a man who sensually sacrifices his comfort, freedom or pride for my erotic pleasure. This absolutely requires a very present, proactive and inventive partner - and he must do this *while restrained* in most cases.

It's how he uses his body language, his eyes, his breathing, his words, and the specific timing of all of these things.  More importantly it's how he does all these things while noting what's turning me on (if I am not as being so blatant as to masturbate on his face or show him my panties) so he can be better and better at it.

If a bottom portrays things like self indulgence, pushiness, an overly stoic nature, absurd fake resistance, mocking tough guy demeanor, or merely a lack of emotional/sensual "presence" (some subs say "subspace" makes them distant; that's fine, but I don't like dominating zombies -- some ladies love this, they love "doing that to a guy" but I need more colorful prey) then I get bored, and I start to feel drained.

I have thought a lot of the energy stuff is hogwash sometimes, but I have to just admit it's true.  I need to get something back when I am topping a man and it's not service or what he did for me that day, it's his top-priority willingness and drive to feed my sadistic side and help me feel that all-over-body-wracking emotional orgasm that I get from topping a man when I feel that he's suffered and sacrificed for me because seeing what it does to me is more important than his own comfort.  This comes from a building of emotional, authentic vulnerability that is absolutely something a man must work to bring to the surface, not just "endure."

Hope that makes sense. It's often a mystery to me, too. 

Akasha



I think you are right Akasha, it's clear we were separated at birth;-)

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Profile   Post #: 67
RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 11/28/2009 8:40:28 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Firstly, to LadyAngelika: I like the subject of the OP a lot. It caused people think about their motivations, triggers, and inner psyche. Likewise, it brought about discussion of what really brings kinky people together (which I believe, despite BDSM backdrops and roles, has less to do with BDSM and a lot more to do with personality and chemistry between people). I like a good, substantive thread that has staying power. This thread has potential to stir constructive debate for a while. Thank you so much for posting this. I look forward to addressing the main subject more directly in due course.


I'm so glad you chimed in Elan :-)

- LA




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RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 11/28/2009 9:15:47 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pinnipedster
Obviously, this is a conflict -- she won't let a man dominate her, but she doesn't have enough respect for one who would submit to her enough to consider marrying him.

I know I've read of some similar issues with career-focused women.  As women get more successful in business and the professions, there can be conflict with a mate who is similarly focused, since sometimes one partner or the other is likely to have to make sacrifices to keep the relationship working.  But, even successful career women tend to prefer partners who are at least as successful as they are; which ends up exacerbating the problem. 


Actually, in my experience, I have no problem dating a man that makes less money than me or has less education than me. The problem often lays with them and there insecurities. It is also the experience with all of my successful female friends that I've addressed this issue with. This is why advice such as "let him open the pickle jar" is gaining popularity.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinnipedster
I wonder if Dominant women sometimes face a similar problem: of being mainly attracted to the kind of men who are least likely to let them take charge.


I wouldn't put it that way, at least not for me. I want a man who is strong and can take charge but recognizes my power and submits to it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinnipedster
On the one hand, there's no one more macho than a Marine -- but on the other hand, they definitely can take orders! 

Of course, the key is that they're not going to take orders from just anyone -- only from someone who has earned their respect.  It seems that this is something many Dominant women crave -- to have someone who won't submit to just anyone, but who is willing to do anything for her in particular. 


Bingo!

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinnipedster
All this is of course frustrating to many of us who are not only openly submissive, but also by no stretch of the imagination Alpha-male types.


I have an Alpha-male fetish. Not all dominant women do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pinnipedster
So...I would be curious to know: what's a submissive to do?  Pretend not to be submissive in hopes that this will somehow make him more attractive to Dominant women?  That not only seems a bit dishonest, but like it's not apt to be particularly effective, either, since there are still few enough Dominant women out there to keep the odds against him.


Reverse the traditional rules! My grandmothers and mothers always told me that boys don't like girls who give it up too quick. You have to play a little hard to get . Why? Because boys are hunters. I've learned that not all are and it seems less and less know how to hunt like gentlemen. But that's another thread!

If you want to catch a huntress' eye, you have to be attractive prey. After all, it's a jungle out there!

- LA


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Profile   Post #: 69
RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 11/28/2009 9:42:28 PM   
Venatrix


Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


Actually, in my experience, I have no problem dating a man that makes less money than me or has less education than me. The problem often lays with them and there insecurities.



Yes, indeed - here's to hitting those nails on the head!

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 11/28/2009 11:11:27 PM   
pinnipedster


Posts: 217
Joined: 4/17/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

If you want to catch a huntress' eye, you have to be attractive prey. After all, it's a jungle out there!



But I think relatively few Dominant women are active hunters.  Face it, they don't have to be: just set up a Dominant profile here, and the prey will clamor to come to you.   While my experience in the real-world BDSM community is limited, friends with much more experience report that, generally speaking, it's still the men who are expected to approach the women, regardless of which partner is the Dominant one.  This disappoints me personally, because I don't like being the hunter -- I'd much rather be the prey.  Figuring out how to be attractive prey while still being me is the tough part.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 11/29/2009 2:57:54 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pinnipedster

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

If you want to catch a huntress' eye, you have to be attractive prey. After all, it's a jungle out there!



But I think relatively few Dominant women are active hunters.  Face it, they don't have to be: just set up a Dominant profile here, and the prey will clamor to come to you.

Ok, you are going to hate me even more! Ha ha ha!

I still expect men to approach me, and then they fall into my trap! ;-) I can and have approached men. What I hear all the time from other women is "well this is a new world in which women can approach men". True. But my motto is that I'm more interested in the few gentlemen left that have the courage to approach me (in person is much more intimidating than online) and who have the class to do it right.

quote:

While my experience in the real-world BDSM community is limited, friends with much more experience report that, generally speaking, it's still the men who are expected to approach the women, regardless of which partner is the Dominant one.  This disappoints me personally, because I don't like being the hunter -- I'd much rather be the prey.  Figuring out how to be attractive prey while still being me is the tough part.


I wish I had a magic answer for your dilemma. The only thing that comes to mind is to either read a book or take a course in building self-confidence. I'm not sure if they exist in your area, but here, there are relationship coaches. You don't have to tell them that you are kinky, because to me, proper courting is proper courting, regardless of what is going to transpire in the relationship.

- LA

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RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 11/29/2009 6:03:29 AM   
Underumam


Posts: 485
Joined: 12/18/2008
Status: offline 		Bonjour Lady Angelika, I really appreciate the way you and others have taken the time to go in depth on this thread. It's been VERY informative reading..

How's life up there in Montreal? I spent 13 wonderful years in Quebec myself, and have a 15 year old daughter who lives in Gatineau with her mother. I loved many a romantic walk through Old Montreal, Ste.Adele, and other such quaint places. I spent many a day on the ski de font trails, and really miss "rolling up the rim to win" at Timmy's..lol.

a la prochaine.......



(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 11/29/2009 8:24:32 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Underumam

Bonjour Lady Angelika, I really appreciate the way you and others have taken the time to go in depth on this thread. It's been VERY informative reading..


I'm so thrilled with the participation too! This discussion has permitted me to do a lot of reflection on the way that I'm approaching dating right now. I hope everyone is getting as much out of it as me!

quote:

How's life up there in Montreal? I spent 13 wonderful years in Quebec myself, and have a 15 year old daughter who lives in Gatineau with her mother. I loved many a romantic walk through Old Montreal, Ste.Adele, and other such quaint places. I spent many a day on the ski de font trails, and really miss "rolling up the rim to win" at Timmy's..lol.


Life in Montréal is beautiful, as always. The weather lately has been quite clement. But we know harsh winter is not far away. I hear Cuba calling!

But then I jest, as I love le ski de fond et le ski alpin! But Timmy's... well I don't share your love with this one. Next time you are in Montréal, let me know and I'll take you to Café Olympico for a real café! ;-)

quote:

a la prochaine.......


Mais absolument!

- LA


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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Underumam)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 11/29/2009 4:44:47 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: Venatrix

I wanted to add that, in many cases, vanilla men, even those who are just friends, do little (or even big) things to see a woman happy.  Throw kink into the mix, and it often becomes a case of, "Oh, we don't have an official relationship, so I'm not going to do those things yet."  So, the irony is that submissive men looking for a potential relationship are often a lot less submissive than vanilla men who are just friends.  Go figure.


Bingo!!!! You keep nailing that nail right on the head!

Vanilla men go leaps and bounds further to court me than any "submissive" man has ever!

- LA



I think its a misnoma that Submissive men cant court their Dominas, judging by the posts I have read here over the years. Just as with vanilla men, we are all different.

Some of us may just come across as shyer intially, that doesnt mean we are not romantically inclined or skilled at it either. Obviously you were not generalizing but talking only of your own experiences. Which given the medium we are using, is all we can do.

I know I am submissive and try neither to hide it, or push it, when I meet someone in a vanilla enviroment. I actually like the idea of either party doing the pursuing, being seduced by a woman in a vanilla setting is enthralling. I am guessing this is due to the role reversal aspect, but aside from that, it is someone letting me know SHE fancies ME, sexually. Obvious as it sounds, this is a confidence builder for me.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 11/29/2009 5:31:26 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

PoliteSub:
I think its a misnoma that Submissive men cant court their Dominas, judging by the posts I have read here over the years. Just as with vanilla men, we are all different.


PS,

Anyone who thinks that you're not a courting sort of chap needs to buy a dictionary and find out what the bladdy word means. 


< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 11/29/2009 5:32:04 PM >

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(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 11/29/2009 6:10:40 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I think its a misnoma that Submissive men cant court their Dominas, judging by the posts I have read here over the years. Just as with vanilla men, we are all different.


I can only speak from my experience, and my experience is such. Now the few sub boys that I did let into my life treated me amazingly and courted me appropriately as did all the men that I've been romantically involved with.

- LA


_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 4/18/2010 6:53:45 PM   
SlaveSubtoserve


Posts: 282
Joined: 6/21/2006
Status: offline 		Provocative thread and it brings up an analogy that i sense, is felt be many of the more alpha or more vanilla world successful male subs; that is the women that i generally would give my eye teeth to submit to almost invariably live in vanilla-land and often time if kinky curious or interested, wish to submit to moi for some reason (have developed some topping skills over the years because of this)......while it seems most of the self identified Dommes (in Kink land)i have met/seen over the years generally pique little interest on my side ......somehow i think this is the mirror analogy to what L.A. is highlighting on her side......i know many other male subs of a certain segment (personality type/income level) feel this way.....and this seems to span geography as i have participated in the scene in SF, NYC, Europe, and Boston.......i know there are hypotheses out there for this but given that this is a Mistress forum will leave them under the rug for the time being ......thoughts???

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: The Thrill of the Hunt - 4/19/2010 4:29:05 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		As this is an old thread (are you the one reviving all my threads?), many have already had their say on the topic at hand.

As for your question, you might be more successful getting responses if you post it in the Ask A Submissive section (or general), in which case, you can use this thread as a reference.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to SlaveSubtoserve)
Profile   Post #: 79
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