Here's My challenge

Here's My challenge (Full Version)

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JimandAnn -> Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 1:28:46 PM)
I come to these message boards often and find some very good discussions going on. I see a lot of Bush bashing going on and now it's time for you to step up. You make every personal bit of information about yourself open to everyone in the world... You stand up in front of cameras and make a perfect speech every time. You make a perfect decision every single day. You come here and tell eveyone just how perfect you are. Debate over the war is one thing...personal attacks are another. Go ahead debate it...if you're an American I fought for your right to do it. The posts I see here attacking on a personal level are more than likely form someone who hasn't done 1 thing for this country except sit back and whine and probably suck up welfare checks as fast as they can before getting caught. I'll be the first to go on record as saying No Thanks... I couldn't do it,,, my solid nitrogenous waste stinks too.... So let's hear from you perfect people who can step up and take what that man has had to deal with. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Jim

stef -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 1:31:03 PM)
Oh, this is going to be good... ~stef

LokisBrat -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 1:31:57 PM)
popcorn anyone? [:D] brat

mnottertail -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 1:43:09 PM)
I come to these message boards often and find find very good discussions going on. ok.. I see a lot of Bush bashing going on and now it's time for you to step up. Here I am. You make every personal bit of information about yourself open to everyone in the world... You stand up in front of cameras and make a perfect speech every time. You make a perfect decision every single day. You come here and tell eveyone just how perfect you are. I will when he has. Debate over the war is one thing...personal attacks are another. He doesn't care to poll me. I doubt he notices my clever repartee. Go ahead debate it...if you're an American I fought for your right to do it. You are not alone here. Many here have The posts I see here attacking on a personal level are more than likely form someone who hasn't done 1 thing for this country except sit back and whine and probably suck up welfare checks as fast as they can before getting caught. This could be construed as baiting and bashing on the magnatude of any baiting and bashing that has been allowed so far. I'll be the first to go on record as saying No Thanks... I couldn't do it,,, my solid nitrogenous waste stinks too.... I can act as tho my shit doesn't stink, but indeed; my farts give me away, constantly. So let's hear from you perfect people who can step up and take what that man has had to deal with. This is not a logical argument, either. No one has implied that they are perfect. I least of all, my faults are legion....... mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Everyone wants their own diatribe. I have personally posted my personal information on a post or two and said come and get me you fuckers, but Mod 11 has politely asked that I refrain from re-enacting the effort again; forever. I have the courage of my convictions also, Jim. Whether we agree or disagree, will not color that. Ron

BanginPapa -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 1:51:16 PM)
Well here's my challenge. Let's all get our collective heads out of our asses, stop settling for the mediocrity of partisan politics, and elect a president that is worthy of the office. The time for fucking around has long since passed. Period.

ModeratorThree -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 1:53:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimandAnn You stand up in front of cameras and make a perfect speech every time. Jim I have yet to see a perfect speech. In fact...... nevermind Please play nice everyone. Mod3

incognitoinmass -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 2:01:28 PM)
quote: Well here's my challenge. Let's all get our collective heads out of our asses, stop settling for the mediocrity of partisan politics, and elect a president that is worthy of the office. The time for fucking around has long since passed. Period That's a noble sentiment and I hope you follow through. But politics is by definition 'partisan.' Having better candidates won't make the electoral battles any less rigorous. So it has always been. I think one thing I would like to see is a return to the view that government office was a public service, not a career or a lifetime sinecure. You served a few terms and then went back to the farm or the store or whatever. Geez, just recently there have been headlines bemoaning that Congress is likely to only be in session 97 days this year [primarily due to the election cycle.] Hallelujah! I say.

Moloch -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 2:21:53 PM)
My friend is a Marine, he enlisted 1.5 years ago, he is a lawyer he gave up 80k a year job so he could serve his country, right now he is in Iraq. He hates Bush he thinks he is an idiot, and I quote "Bush is a fucking moron with a silver spoon up his ass" You wanna call him a welfare collecting peice of shit? go down to falujah and tell him that he is a worthless peice of shit who does nothing for his country.

Moloch -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 2:31:38 PM)
Oh in addition my dearest "bible thumping bush loving cupcake" I would like to say that I have another freind who i has 2 purple hearts partially disabled, who also hates Bush and is a member of this board. You gonna tell me he "hasn't done 1 thing for this country except sit back and whine" ? Cant you get it through your head that this isnt about Republican or Democrat, he is an employee of the United States Of America and he is doing a piss poor job. Clinton did the job 10 times better while getting his dick sucked in the oval office.

KatyLied -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 2:48:35 PM)
This is gonna be fun. Kudos to you on your second post here.

DelightMachine -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 2:56:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moloch Cant you get it through your head that this isnt about Republican or Democrat, he is an employee of the United States Of America and he is doing a piss poor job. Clinton did the job 10 times better while getting his dick sucked in the oval office. Oh let me get this right, Clinton was in office eight years, during which time the 9/11 atrocity was planned, then eight months into the Bush administration the long-planned attack is carried out, and CLINTON did the job 10 times better? Osama bin Laden couldn't stop pointing out the fact that the U.S. cut and ran from Somalia after troops were attacked there -- a direct result was that bin Laden stepped up his attacks. Moloch, haven't you even heard all these arguments before? They're old as the hills. You've been in your dungeon too long. It is ALL about Republican and Democrat. Or between the far left-wingers who tend to be more open to BDSM and therefore are over-represented here and more conservative, traditionalist-oriented religious people, who are naturally under-represented here. I'm glad that incognitoinmass and the OP and maybe a few others are speaking out. There's a lot of crap being typed in by people who don't feel they have to think and even more coming out from people who don't know what thinking is. You know, to actually say something intelligent on a political topic, you need to present a case for it, usually made up of having some facts and putting them together in a logical way. Then you have to listen to others with an open mind and see if there are any holes in THEIR arguments, ideally made up of facts and logic. The facts may be wrong, the logic wrong -- you point that out and then the other guy has to defend them or lose the argument. That is if anybody actually cares about getting closer to the truth. But that would be a big assumption. I notice that people like Mercnbeth [EDIT: I take it back, I can't find where Mercnbeth did that -- I must've misrememberd] or John Warren tend to shut up sooner or later when actual points are brought to bear on their political statements, and these guys are the most intelligent posters I've seen. Too bad, really. The way NOT to argue a political point is by insult, and we've seen plenty of people who resort to that as their first line of defense. (Edited as noted above)

Gauge -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 3:09:20 PM)
quote: I come to these message boards often and find some very good discussions going on. I see a lot of Bush bashing going on and now it's time for you to step up. You make every personal bit of information about yourself open to everyone in the world... You stand up in front of cameras and make a perfect speech every time. You make a perfect decision every single day. You come here and tell eveyone just how perfect you are. It would seem to me that you have a slight chip on your shoulder. No one has sat here and proclaimed perfection... at least not what I have seen. So, let me get this straight... the man chose a career in politics. He chose to run for President. He made the sacrifice that he would be under the microscope of every journalist, historian, political sect, and under the scrutiny of the American public and the world and I am supposed to feel sorry for him? I think not. Mr. Bush has made his bed and now he must lay in it. He has set things into motion that have changed the course of this country for generations to come and I don't have the right to express my displeasure with his decisions? He should not be scrutinized for his blatant lies that are so laughable at this point that his credibility is a joke? No Sir, he has sewn these seeds and now he is reaping the bitter harvest of his actions. quote: Debate over the war is one thing...personal attacks are another. Go ahead debate it...if you're an American I fought for your right to do it. I thank you for your sacrifice in fighting for this country. Speaking of personal attacks, this does not justify what you say next: quote: The posts I see here attacking on a personal level are more than likely form someone who hasn't done 1 thing for this country except sit back and whine and probably suck up welfare checks as fast as they can before getting caught. So no one has a right to say anything if they haven't done anything for the country? And even if they haven't you then digress into calling them welfare babies that are collecting checks under false pretenses? No sir, no blatant bias on your part. Nope, nope, nope. If you fought for my right to say what I want about the President then you should also realize that I will do so whether it pleases you or displeases you. Just letting you know, I am not on welfare. quote: I'll be the first to go on record as saying No Thanks... I couldn't do it,,, my solid nitrogenous waste stinks too.... So let's hear from you perfect people who can step up and take what that man has had to deal with. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. It is your prerogative to sit silently and not allow your voice to be heard. It is not right to throw down the gauntlet and call people welfare babies because they have never fought for this country. It is not right to say that people that haven't done anything for the country can't sit there and blast whomever they damn well please. It is a cowards position to retreat into the "I have the right and you don't" syndrome. Anyone that is in the limelight has given up a certain amount of privacy. A world leader has given up much more than that even. If you do not like what you are reading then don't read it. Do not attack people when you have not been provoked. I will exercise my right to voice my opinion on world affairs and I couldn't care less if you do or don't like it. After all, that is my right, is it not?

Gauge -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 3:18:47 PM)
quote: I notice that people like Mercnbeth or John Warren tend to shut up sooner or later when actual points are brought to bear on their political statements, and these guys are the most intelligent posters I've seen. Too bad, really. I believe that they (and others) are smart enough to know when the argument has degenerated into the trivial and it is no longer worthwhile to sit there and debate with someone that continues to insist they are right. You can only state your position so many times before you sound like a broken record, this is not a sign of weakness, it is a sign that intelectual discourse has somewhat ceased and there is no reason to continue to re-state your viewpoint. If you didn't get it the first two or three times, you won't get it a fourth or a fifth time either.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 3:28:12 PM)
You know what - I'd do it if it would make a difference. I'm a President Bush "sympathizer". I voted for him twice, first time because I supported him. The second time with lukewarm enthusiasm but without a comfortable alternative in Kerry. I won't add credibility to any argument that he didn't win the election by responding to any bait that says he didn't, anymore than I'd do the same replying the 9-11 conspiracy theories. (YES -I've seen the videos). I supported his decision to go to Afghanistan. I supported his invasion of Iraq. Subsequently, because of reasons stated elsewhere, I do not support our continuing presence, and think our men and other allocated resources should and could be better deployed. And I'll concede that position is NOT supporting the troops, but I won't get into that hypocrisy. Were I at the news conference I'd pose one question with a request for one follow up. The question; How will we know we've won in Iraq? The assumed answer, (HAH! "Assuming" for the President - THERE'S a false sense of self importance huh?) would be when a democratically elected government is in place. My follow up would be; suppose it's the same type government in power at the last "victory" Afghanistan where a man faces death for being a Christian; is it worth our soldiers dying for that? (Article: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0603210143mar21,1,938137.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true) Editorial Side Bar: Day 2 - STILL no 'outrage' or even much publicity akin to the US 'mistreatment' of the prisoners being kept in Guantanamo Bay. There is no need to be "perfect". There is no need "to make every personal bit of information open to everyone in the world." There is a need to be a leader. To admit failure, or you didn't have all the facts, or you decided to follow facts for a decision you already were 99% going to make anyway. Pick your favorite President who has been alive in your lifetime and ask how they would have addressed the same situation. I personally think President Reagan would have handled it a LOT differently. Personal attacks only provide evidence that the person making them has no other argument. Worse, it means they have no other option or solution. With today's sports page I can be 100% accurate predicting the outcome yesterday's horse races at Hollywood Park. I bet I could even sound like a smart handicapper and tell you exactly why the horse who won - won, and the horses that lost - lost. I just described the Democratic opposition to President Bush. How I real feel about the situation in the US? Like a Roman must have just before the Visigoths came to visit. Instead of the Coliseum, I've got the Internet. (Thank you Al Gore-or are you going by 'Oliver' nowadays?) I have A full belly, a home, even a slave! What I'd challenge back to you is; what "stones" do we have to throw? We are 30 years past Thomas Jefferson's expected lifetime for the country he helped established. Because of the election laws, specifically the campaign contribution laws, national public office is beyond reach of any "common citizen" as the founders of the country envisioned. You have faith in the future? Stop by your local school, any of them. In Elementary even arithmetic is now an inexact science. High School? Today a principle in LA stood out front of his school where rioting broke out between Hispanics and Blanks and said; "You have to expect this and we should have been better prepared." "BETTER PREPARED"!!!AMAZINGLY - As far as I know - he's still principal. The California High School exit exam is a requirement this year. I think it's required 7th grade "essential" skills, negotiated down from 8th grade. It's expected at best 70% will pass. This is after an entire year of some schools teaching to the test for the enter school year. Our next crop of burger flippers is about to "graduate". Sadly, for some, CM, and maybe MTV are their only source of "news". Quick, without looking who is your Congressperson? Senators? Name 2 of 9 Supreme Court Justices? How many people make up the House of Representatives? Who's next in line if President if President Bush and Vice President Chaney are both incapacitated? If you don't know how can you know how to effect change even if you wanted to, or thought you could? Better to name call. It's good for a laugh. You'll appear witty and nobody will ever know what you don't know. Most important, thank you for your service to the country. I respect and appreciate your sacrifice and all the others who served and are serving.

Level -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 3:31:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ModeratorThree quote: ORIGINAL: JimandAnn You stand up in front of cameras and make a perfect speech every time. Jim quote: I have yet to see a perfect speech. In fact...... nevermind Please play nice everyone. Mod3 You look great for a 95 year old, by the way. Level

Jayxkes -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 3:37:24 PM)
who is this Bush character?

DelightMachine -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 3:40:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge quote: I notice that people like Mercnbeth or John Warren tend to shut up sooner or later when actual points are brought to bear on their political statements, and these guys are the most intelligent posters I've seen. Too bad, really. I believe that they (and others) are smart enough to know when the argument has degenerated into the trivial and it is no longer worthwhile to sit there and debate with someone that continues to insist they are right. You can only state your position so many times before you sound like a broken record, this is not a sign of weakness, it is a sign that intelectual discourse has somewhat ceased and there is no reason to continue to re-state your viewpoint. If you didn't get it the first two or three times, you won't get it a fourth or a fifth time either. That would be a good point if it actually related to anything that actually happened here on the message boards. I haven't been able to find it. Feel free to show me where that is. There's nothing wrong with continuing to insist you're right, especially if no arguments haven't actually been brought up against something reasonable that you've said. Actual dialogue involves more than just stating your position once. It involves trying to understand reasonable arguments on the other side and engaging with them -- for instance, by countering them with better arguments, answering questions, clarifying what you said that may have been misunderstood, pointing out mistakes in the other person's reasoning, bringing up new facts.

IronBear -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 3:45:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ModeratorThree quote: ORIGINAL: JimandAnn You stand up in front of cameras and make a perfect speech every time. Jim I have yet to see a perfect speech. In fact...... nevermind Please play nice everyone. Mod3 Actually Mod3 old bean, I always though that the late Sir Winston Churchill made a number of perfect speeches and if he didn't then no one was smart enough to challange him about them when he was in office.. quote: ORIGINAL: BanginPapa Well here's my challenge. Let's all get our collective heads out of our asses, stop settling for the mediocrity of partisan politics, and elect a president that is worthy of the office. The time for fucking around has long since passed. Period. I've been saying that to my many friends in the US for years.... Good to see some one saying it here.. Good on yer mate. quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail I come to these message boards often and find find very good discussions going on. ok.. I see a lot of Bush bashing going on and now it's time for you to step up. Here I am. You make every personal bit of information about yourself open to everyone in the world... You stand up in front of cameras and make a perfect speech every time. You make a perfect decision every single day. You come here and tell eveyone just how perfect you are. I will when he has. Debate over the war is one thing...personal attacks are another. He doesn't care to poll me. I doubt he notices my clever repartee. SNIP.......... SNIP.............. SNIP I have personally posted my personal information on a post or two and said come and get me you fuckers, but Mod 11 has politely asked that I refrain from re-enacting the effort again; forever. I have the courage of my convictions also, Jim. Whether we agree or disagree, will not color that. Ron Go Ron.. You have my vote..... MNOTTERTAIL FOR PRESIDENT quote: ORIGINAL: JimandAnn I come to these message boards often and find some very good discussions going on. I see a lot of Bush bashing going on and now it's time for you to step up. You make every personal bit of information about yourself open to everyone in the world... You stand up in front of cameras and make a perfect speech every time. You make a perfect decision every single day. You come here and tell eveyone just how perfect you are. Debate over the war is one thing...personal attacks are another. Go ahead debate it...if you're an American I fought for your right to do it. The posts I see here attacking on a personal level are more than likely form someone who hasn't done 1 thing for this country except sit back and whine and probably suck up welfare checks as fast as they can before getting caught. I'll be the first to go on record as saying No Thanks... I couldn't do it,,, my solid nitrogenous waste stinks too.... So let's hear from you perfect people who can step up and take what that man has had to deal with. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Jim Ok Jimbo laddy, I spent five fucking years up to my armpits in the shit of Vietnam serving with the US Military and I'm not even a US Citizen. I spent most of the rest of my life running Mercinary Operations for both the US Government and my own Government, operating against Drug Cartels or Terrorist Groups.. When I see the clusterfuck Bush is doing with the removal of rights and the kowtowing to the Extreem Right Wing Christian Groups who threaten all alternative religions and lifestyles, I'll bloody well speak out. When our gutless Prime Minister, Jackboot Johny Howard kisses Bush's ass and starts to follow the "Master" I get more than pissed off... I can deal with my local scene because at least we are enlightened enough to have maditory voting and such idiots won't last long.. The writing is on the wall.. Sooooo old son, I do and shall keep urging folks to vote and remove the lier of a meglomaniac arsehole Bush from office and ellect some one with a rational brain who can at least work towards sorting out problems at home .. Chill man and allow things to progress.

incognitoinmass -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 3:48:32 PM)
This is good. Adult-like even. Edited to say: [immediately preceding post excepted]

cloudboy -> RE: Here's My challenge (3/22/2006 3:54:59 PM)
Yes, I think $9 Trillion Dollars of debt, a failed war based on lies, and an environmental agency (the EPA) suing for MORE POLUTION is a track record to be proud of. Also some Al Franken Rhetoric might be called for here as well: >The final Al Qaeda (AQ) attack of the Clinton Era came on Oct. 12, 2000. AQ terrorists attacked the USS Cole, killing seventeen of our sailors. Clinton decided to take the fight against AQ to the highest level possible. Instead of funding and arming them like Reagan, or ignoring them like Bush Sr., Clinton decided to destroy them. He put Richard Clarke, the legendary bulldog whom he had appointed as the first national antiterrorism coordinator, in charge of coming up with a comprehensive plan to take out AQ. Working furiously, Clarke produced a strategy paper that he presented to Sandy Berger and other national security principals on Dec. 20, 2000. The plan was an ambitious one: break up AQ cells and arrest their personnel; systemically attack financial support for its terrorist activities; freeze its assets; stop its funding through fake charities; give aid to gov’ts (Uzbekistan, the Philippines, and Yemen) having trouble with AQ; and most significantly, scale up covert action in Afghanistan to eliminate the training camps and reach Bin Laden himself. Clarke proposed building up support for the Northern Alliance and putting Special Forces troops on the ground in Afghanistan. As a senior Bush administration official told Time Magazine, Clarke’s plan amounted to ‘everything we’ve done since 9/11.” Bill Clinton’s far reaching plan to eliminate AQ root and branch was completed only a few weeks before the inauguration of G. W. Bush. Now to summarize. The Bush people upon taking over in the White House were not interesting in meeting with Sandy Berger and the other folks on his national security team. Condoleezza Rice did meet with Richard Clark who authored the Clinton plan to root out AQ, and she was so impressed with him that she pushed for the White House to hire him. But the Clarke plan was never taken seriously or acted upon by the Bush Administration. In fact the tenets of the plan only made it to the top Bush security people (Wolfowitz, Rumsfeldt, Cheney) by September 2001, eight (8) months after he first briefed C. Rice about it. Needless to say, the plan was never acted on so as to prevent the 9/11 attack. On Feb. 15, 2001 the widely publicized Hart-Rudman report was released which warned that ‘mass casualty terrorism directed against the US homeland was of serious and growing concern.’ On July 10, 2001Phoenix FBI Agent Kenneth Williams sent a memo to headquarters regarding concerns over some Middle Eastern Students at an Arizona flight school. Williams suggested they might be trying to infiltrate the US civil aviation system. ** President G.W. Bush spent 42% of his first seven months in office either at Camp David, at the Bush Compound in Kennebunkport, or at his ranch in Crawford Tx.<

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