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Positive Images - 2/2/2010 4:06:13 PM

cloudboy

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PTI's Kornheiser and Wilborn called attention to figure skater, Johnny Weir, and I guess if anyone was going to fit the description of a male "diva" he might be it. His photos are especially easy on the eye, tasteful, AND he's blessed with a figure that cuts both ways.....

Take a look at his website.

http://www.figureskatersonline.com/johnnyweir/gallery_08bangs.html

Post #: 1

RE: Positive Images - 2/3/2010 11:21:39 AM

OttersSwim

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I think we might need a bit more info on this topic CB. Is this topic about positive images of males who are bishi or gender bend? And frankly, the term "diva" can have a negative connotation as well, so not sure what you are after here. Can you supplement?

Johnny is pretty, and bishi for sure.

Buy hey, i've always thought that if people want positive images of a gender bending, dead sexy Diva, ya' just have ta' perv ME!

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Post #: 2

RE: Positive Images - 2/3/2010 11:29:21 AM

VaguelyCurious

Posts: 5264
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From: United Kingdom
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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

Buy hey, i've always thought that if people want positive images of a gender bending, dead sexy Diva, ya' just have ta' perv ME!

lol-I've looked at your profile before, and I have to agree-you's looooovely

:-p

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Post #: 3

RE: Positive Images - 2/3/2010 12:18:56 PM

QueenRah

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This is the "Ask a Mistress" forum, cloudboy, not the "Ain't Johnny Weir great and I don't have a question, I just have random thoughts to share" forum. Miscategorized. Reported.

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RE: Positive Images - 2/3/2010 3:19:41 PM

LadyNTrainer

Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
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I have a problem with this being moved. A big one. Images of sexually objectified men are hard to come by in the stereotypical world of femdom, because for the most part, "straight" femdom porn is all about objectifying and sexualizing the woman. A submissive man who wants to be desirable, owned, controlled, objectified, used, pretty, hot, a fuckable piece of meat, property, etc, doesn't have a lot of healthy role models except feminization. And that's not a pigeonhole everybody needs to be fitted into.

I'll have a little more to say on this on the femdom forum, but right now I want to say that just because it's a femdom kink that doesn't resonate with you does not mean it doesn't belong in femdom. Quite the contrary.

< Message edited by LadyNTrainer -- 2/3/2010 3:56:26 PM >

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Post #: 5

RE: Positive Images - 2/3/2010 3:26:10 PM

cloudboy

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This was my attempt to strike a chord in the whole feminization / masculinization / inappropriate photos stuff in ASK A MISTRESS.

Weir cuts an androgynous figure.

In theory, looking at Weir's photos and albums sets a standard of taste (which was at issue), and also Weir is sexy pushing the boundaries between male and female styles. (All minorities need a mainstream trailblazer to show a positive way to help defeat common prejudices and bigotry.)

I thought those batting about the issues might find these photos thought provoking.

Anyway, no one really picked up on or showed an interest in this scent, and now the Mods have drop kicked it over here.

I should have known how important it would be for me to connect the dots here, but in my experience very few people are interested in connecting these dots anyway.

P.S. When writing the OP, I had word choice dilemmas with Diva as well -- this issue has been such a hot potato with me that I've tried to turn my brain off a bit and minimalist. By diva, I suppose I meant a "star in the public limelight who cultivates his image."

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 2/3/2010 3:31:49 PM >

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Post #: 6

RE: Positive Images - 2/3/2010 3:27:25 PM

cloudboy

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Thanks, your post makes me feel a little more sane. I'm really glad you made the connection.

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Post #: 7

RE: Positive Images - 2/3/2010 5:39:04 PM

ModeratorSeven

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This thread was moved back due to a few requests to do so.

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Post #: 8

RE: Positive Images - 2/3/2010 5:48:08 PM

LadyNTrainer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

This was my attempt to strike a chord in the whole feminization / masculinization / inappropriate photos stuff in ASK A MISTRESS.

Weir cuts an androgynous figure.

Is it androgynous, or simply not stereotypically masculine in the way that sex-negative culture embodies masculinity? That's something worth thinking about.

Does it make a man less masculine, less male, to be eye candy? If you do believe, that, why do you think it's true? I suspect we're back to the same formula of having to be female (or at least not male) in order to be thought of as pretty, sexy, desirable, fuckable, or hot in that piece-of-meat eye-candy way that says sexual objectification.

Androgyny can be hot, don't get me wrong. But it's also hot to be all male and beautiful, sexually displayed and objectified for our viewing pleasure. Gay male porn does it best, but I'd really like to see a lot more examples of this dynamic in femdom culture.

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Post #: 9

RE: Positive Images - 2/3/2010 8:01:10 PM

Domin8tingUrDrmz

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From: Portland Metro, Oregon
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From Dictionary.com

an⋅drog⋅y⋅nous /ænˈdrɒdʒənəs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [an-droj-uh-nuhs] Show IPA
–adjective 1. being both male and female; hermaphroditic.
2. having both masculine and feminine characteristics.
3. having an ambiguous sexual identity.
4. neither clearly masculine nor clearly feminine in appearance: the androgynous look of many rock stars.
5. Botany. having staminate and pistillate flowers in the same inflorescence.

I posted this definition only because, when I first saw the term being used and viewing his photos I though, nah, not androgynous. I always defined that term as lacking sexual identity, or thought more along the lines of the 4th definition listed.

In his case, clearly number 2 applies, at least for me. He exudes sexuality, but he does it in a genderbending way. He has many effeminate postures and mannerisms, yet he still maintains a sense of masculinity.

When men are comfortable in their sexuality, whether it be feminine, masculine, or a mix of both, it comes off in a positive manner. When men are uncomfortable in their sexuality, confused, or are trying to hard to make people see them in one way, that tends to come off in a very negative manner. Finding that harmonious balance I'm sure is difficult for many men. Those who have that balance, are quite enjoyable to be around. Their energy is often bright and positive. I love bright and positive people. Those who haven't found that balance, I prefer to avoid.

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Post #: 10

RE: Positive Images - 2/3/2010 8:16:50 PM

pyroaquatic

Posts: 1535
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From: Pyroaquatica
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:D

Welcome to the point in my life where for once...........

I feel incredibly attractive. And not from external source or even my picture. I have always had image issues.

For a looooooong period of time I was in poisonous situations that bred negativity. Thus, I was ugly. I do like this concept of androngeny. One of the few characters in fiction I idolized as a child was Data from star trek. Sherlock Holmes and his cross dressing ways was another (not because he was a cross dresser he did it by profession.)

I am able to be a male model. Hell... thinking about it.... I am (needs more muscle.... raaawr). I have been paid to model. I have been not-paid to model (and look how well it turned out).

Regardless this beauty will not last. Once that external shell is gone all you have left are the juicy insides. If that is ugly, no matter how pretty you were on the outside....

you're fucked.

Have a wonderful day/night/time/life.

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Post #: 11

RE: Positive Images - 2/3/2010 8:56:44 PM

SolangeRichards

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It's never about the wrapper, pal, it's always been about the burrito inside .....

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Post #: 12

RE: Positive Images - 2/3/2010 9:02:58 PM

Tantriqu

Posts: 2026
Joined: 12/29/2006
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Yup, I'm with Queen Rah

, so if the OP has a question to Mistresses, then ask away.

Answers include:
Most straight lifestyle Dommes don't find androgyny or crossdressing attractive: see multiple threads on how we're not interested in men who are most interested in their own fetishes.
Weir isn't attractive, and his icedancing isn't hot.
Go rent 'Slap Shot' to see what is attractive to women in Olympic Winter sports: Paul Newman, and Michael Ontkean stripping on ice [best sports movie ever, and written by a woman!].
So sure, gay guys can be hot [Rupert Everett in 'An Ideal Husband' in the bathhouse comes to mind], and we tend to LOVE gay porn [two hot guys, one or both being penetrated? sweet!] but Weir? Eww!

your mileage may vary

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Post #: 13

RE: Positive Images - 2/3/2010 9:17:12 PM

OttersSwim

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Miss LadyNTrainer, your post in the thread that is now locked was really great!

Without a doubt, one of the most special things to me is that my Lady -desires me-. I am girlie, but I cut a pretty nice male in a 3-ring collar, jeans, docs, and a tux jacket - and I love that too! I want to be pretty, I want to be handsome, I want to be soft, I want to be tough, I want to be desired, and I want to be objectified...just a bit.

For me, just being -boy- does not describe me, but the part of me that is -boy- wants heads to turn just as much as the part of me that is girl.

Very good post, wonderful food for thought.

Otter (Milady Nikki's little Fucktoy)

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Post #: 14

RE: Positive Images - 2/3/2010 9:36:25 PM

SthrnCom4t

Posts: 343
Joined: 9/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu
Answers include:
Most straight lifestyle Dommes don't find androgyny or crossdressing attractive: see multiple threads on how we're not interested in men who are most interested in their own fetishes.

Androgyny/Cross-dressing does not always = men interested in their own fetishes. Not cool to lump them all together.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu
Weir isn't attractive, and his icedancing isn't hot.

Who was looking at his ice-dancing? Some women do find the androgynous look hot. Attraction is absolutely subjective.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu
Go rent 'Slap Shot' to see what is attractive to women in Olympic Winter sports: Paul Newman, and Michael Ontkean stripping on ice [best sports movie ever, and written by a woman!].

Will have to go look this one up now :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu
So sure, gay guys can be hot [Rupert Everett in 'An Ideal Husband' in the bathhouse comes to mind], and we tend to LOVE gay porn [two hot guys, one or both being penetrated? sweet!] but Weir? Eww!

Yep, gay porn CAN be hot....can also be scary. Depends on the percentage of body area covered in hair <g>

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu
your mileage may vary

Agreed!

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Post #: 15

RE: Positive Images - 2/3/2010 10:04:16 PM

LadyNTrainer

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Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

Most straight lifestyle Dommes don't find androgyny or crossdressing attractive: see multiple threads on how we're not interested in men who are most interested in their own fetishes.
Weir isn't attractive, and his icedancing isn't hot.

Your opinion is noted, but not shared. There's not much hotter to me than a sexy boi who is genderqueer or androgynous, and if he is willing to make out with other sexy bois under my direction, yowza. Both of them suitably encouraged with my riding crop to display themselves attractively and perform for my pleasure, of course......

*fans self* My, it's getting hot in here. ;)

< Message edited by LadyNTrainer -- 2/3/2010 10:05:50 PM >

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Post #: 16

RE: Positive Images - 2/4/2010 12:21:55 AM

sodsta

Posts: 246
Joined: 7/19/2006
From: London, England
Status: offline

quote:

Most straight lifestyle Dommes don't find androgyny or crossdressing attractive: see multiple threads on how we're not interested in men who are most interested in their own fetishes.

Hmmmmm.....

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Post #: 17

RE: Positive Images - 2/4/2010 6:12:28 AM

MsHValentine

Posts: 80
Joined: 1/6/2010
Status: offline

I share your sentiment. Though I have always taken into consideration a man's socioeconomic status, resource accessibility, reproductive success and personality traits when choosing a mate, I'm more often than not, only interested in manly men. And when I'm fertile, I want to breed and am most attracted to very masculine, strong manly men with very deep voices.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tantriqu

Yup, I'm with Queen Rah , so if the OP has a question to Mistresses, then ask away.

Answers include:
Most straight lifestyle Dommes don't find androgyny or crossdressing attractive: see multiple threads on how we're not interested in men who are most interested in their own fetishes.
Weir isn't attractive, and his icedancing isn't hot.
Go rent 'Slap Shot' to see what is attractive to women in Olympic Winter sports: Paul Newman, and Michael Ontkean stripping on ice [best sports movie ever, and written by a woman!].
So sure, gay guys can be hot [Rupert Everett in 'An Ideal Husband' in the bathhouse comes to mind], and we tend to LOVE gay porn [two hot guys, one or both being penetrated? sweet!] but Weir? Eww!

your mileage may vary

(in reply to Tantriqu)

Post #: 18

RE: Positive Images - 2/4/2010 8:35:08 AM

Andalusite

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline

While I have been drawn to more outright feminine images of cross-dressing, even occasionally with frillies involved, I really enjoy the masculinity, confidence, and style of these men who are wearing skirts. I'll see if I can find some more androgynous or feminine images to share another time, but these were similar to what first caught my eye with the man who wore a skirt to tai chi class in college. I think that they're all tasteful, attractive, and stylish.

http://www.styleclicker.net/uploaded_images/2008/10/080929-white-socks-paris-rue-michodiere-1.thumbnail.jpg
http://slacktide.typepad.com/photos/picts2/skjrtemote_for_herrer.jpg
http://www.menstuff.org/logos/skirts2.jpg
http://netramblings.wordpress.com/2007/09/23/the-man-skirt/

Of course, as many people have commented, Solange's photos are lovely and elegant as well.

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Post #: 19

RE: Positive Images - 2/4/2010 8:54:09 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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Like Otters, I'm very disappointed that the other thread is locked. I'll apologize to CloudBoy for going more with that subject, rather than the one he presented here.

I very much agree with there being an issue when it comes to males not having good models to emulate when it comes to masculine mixed with being submissive sexually. Somehow, the concept has gotten all screwed up that the receiver, the owned, the taken for use is connected with femme. For someone like Me who specifically chooses partners because of their masculinity, this can be a very difficult area.

There are males out there who do feel more gender fluid or honestly feel that they have a feminine side that they want to express. That is absolutely fine for them, but it automatically disqualifies them for Me. I want My sexual dominance to be the predator of male prey. Being straight, if I see someone as feminine, My sexual interest is eliminated. I no longer see them as desirable for My sexual use. There is an element there that no longer exists that has to be tapped into the core for it to work for Me. Lust doesn't work for Me if I'm interacting with someone that I perceive as feminine. I'm sure there are some folks out there who think I'm closed minded for feeling that way. That a pair of pink panties dissolves My sexual interest. The truth is that it does. My primal sexual interest is lost. I'm just wired that way.

Oddly enough, I often feel that those who chose to engage in feminization are rather hypocritical. They want to be femme and they want to shout to the rooftops that it is 'who they are'. Yet, Me being who I am, only sexually attracted to what I perceive as masculine, is repeatedly told that I'm too narrow minded. That if I'm not attracted in the things that appeal to Me sexually, in My own expression of My primal instincts, I am somehow wrong for this. In My opinion, this is no different than telling a homosexual that they are wrong or absolutely must be attracted to the opposite sex. That they could be straight if they just tried it. Does anyone see the double standard that exists?

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Post #: 20

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