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Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 8:28:27 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		I am beginning to wonder if I have some odd phenomenon or if others have experienced this also. I know that I am a masochist when it comes to BDSM play and that I have an unusually high tolerance to pain. I am starting to worry a bit though that I may not be able to distinguish the cutoff point at which the line gets crossed from hurt to harm.

In BDSM play, there are certain types of pain that I relish in...most notably heavy impact play. There are other types of pain that I am not so fond of...stingy or surfacy pain as the primary example. Although, there are exceptions as I love needle play which is both stingy and surfacy...so there are no absolutes.

Outside of BDSM play though, I can recount many instances where I have experienced pain that SHOULD have by all rights, been incapacitating....but for me it was more on the level of annoyance or hinderance. My recent visit with my surgeon once again has me wondering if it is possible to have some sort of defect that would inhibit the bodies way of processing pain. He related to me the other day that I seem to be rather unique in that the pain that led up to my surgery should have been so extreme that I should not have been able to ignore it. I really should not have been able to get out of the bed much less function and put if off for months, still being capable of accomplishing tasks like preparing a dinner for 50 the very day before my emergency surgery. Now don't get me wrong...I WAS in pain....but I was not in enough pain in MY mind to warrant a trip to the ER.  

My recovery has been no exception either. I have to tell you...they really split me open like a fish. The doc warned all of my family how bad I would be after I woke up. They all mentally prepared themselves for the worst...but to their surprise...and the amazement of the doc...I was up the next day. Granted....I felt like I had been filleted but I kept the pain meds to the bare minimum and got out walking the halls. Now the docs' concern (and my family and friends) is that he worries that I could push too far....and actually not know it.  

This is not the first time I have had this experience. While I have had many such experiences, the one that stands out most is when I broke my back in a motorcycle accident but didn't think it was serious enough to see a doctor for 2 1/2 weeks.

The odd thing though is that there are some types of pain that cause me to be the biggest baby. Stubbing a toe for example...or burning a finger on a hot pot. OK...maybe biggest baby is a bit of an exaggeration...I don't break down in tears or become incapactitated...but I do HATE those types of pain and feel them intensely.

Now, what I am wondering is this....could this be related to a building of tolerance through BDSM play over many years? Or is it possible that there could be a disconnect somewhere along the line in my pain pathways...an actual medical reason? Is anyone else out there experiencing anything like this?

I should also add that I see something similar in my oldest child. When he was a youngster I was frequently scolded by doctors for not bringing him in sooner...even though I took him at the first moment he complained. He even once badly fractured his arm at the age of 5 or 6 but was insistent that it didn't hurt and proceeded to prove it by making a grand show of how his range of motion was just fine. The ensuing swelling and discoloration though was much more tell-tale. He is now an adult and it seems that he also is never really bothered much by pain until it reaches crisis level.

I'd really like to sort this out because I am concerned that the next time I may just procrastinate a bit too far....I came much too close for comfort this time for my liking. As for BDSM play, I am concerned that I may not be able to make good judgements between hurt and harm. Over the years I have had Dominants comment frequently on my pain tolerance...and one even said that I was just too "scary" to play with.

Help? Suggestions? Links? Nurses or Docs out there who have any understanding of this?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"
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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 8:33:10 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		It's not that uncommon.  The body processes pain in certain ways.  The mind is very complex and it's easy for wires to get crossed.  Also, as alike as we are, there can be a HUGE range in how people perceive and process pain.  In some children it can become dangerous in that they do not HAVE working pain receptors and need to be carefully watched.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 8:49:43 AM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline 		The people I know with the highest tolerances to pain (myself included) are abuse survivors
 
Pain is a signal from your brain that something is wrong , needs attention, if that signal gets ignored, or in the case of abuse, there is nothing that can be done to stop it, it stops broadcasting as loud.
 
In bdsm we learn to take that signal and float it away, we instantly take the sensation, and transmute it into a deeper relaxation and soft gooey feelings.
 
We often persevere because of the joy it brings the sadist, and the joy it brings us to endure, to be worthy, and to transmute the pain into the warm fuzzys
 
This is a skill and the longer you practice the skill the better you get at it, the more you can endure.
 
However I think to answer you q, yes your signals are a little confused from years of reconditioning bdsm or something else deep inside that values perseverance over attention, but i think you are at a level that it could be harmful, I too am at that level, I have not been to a Dr. in years, I just dont like giving in to pain either
 
However I am also employing a lot of self evaluation and mediation to my body. I am trying to tune in about what my body needs and why. Some where along the line I sopped cherishing my body, and have gotten alienated from it, and re-tuning to it, has made me a happier person, a more whole person.
 
I dont know if I am making sense  but i think if you spend some time with your body loving it, massaging it, feeding it wonderful foods, doing the things it loves, instead of treating it like an old pack mule, (not that you are, just an analogy) You will find you can still enjoy bdsm and yet be able to recognize when you are over doing it, and take a rest.

_____________________________


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This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 9:16:33 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

 or something else deep inside that values perseverance over attention


Thank you so much for your response. Out of everything that you said...this one struck a chord.

I do understand what you are saying about abuse survivors but at least in the case of childhood abuse...that is most certainly not the case as I can tell you that my childhood was really wonderful. I am a survivor of abuse in an adult relationship...but the characteristics I am talking about were there long before that occurred.

I do place very high value though on perserverance and endurance...the ability to come out of any trying situation a stronger person on the other side. I am one of those who has a real problem reaching out for help because I believe in bearing my own burdens...sometimes to my detriment.

As for getting in touch with my body, I know that it sounds rather contradictory, but I actually do treat myself fairly well. OK...except for my fondness of chocolate and cheese. I've come through alot of illness and injury in my life...so I do have a really good appreciation for my body....despite its' limitations. Yeah, I wish my boobs were in the same place they were when I was 18...and this new big ugly scar is not exactly all that appealing to me....but I am very thankful that for the most part, everythng functions pretty well and I try to remain concious of the fact that I have to treat it well for it to stay that way.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to crouchingtigress)
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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 11:34:38 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Good pain is when I'm wounded and the pain stops me from just closing my eyes and letting go of this world.. It Tells Me I'm Alive

Bad pain is what keeps me awake at night or stops me from walking outside to getthemail or hang out the laundry and for which Morphine Sulphate is sometimes necessary......

In both cases, unless I have to be silent, many unusual Australian expressions accompanied by even more Anglosaxon words uttered in a loud angry voice which would shame a Regimental Sergent Major and causes instant obedience and terror to be struck into the hearts of the neighbourhood.....


_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 11:36:45 AM   
kittensmailbox


Posts: 744
Joined: 1/7/2005
From: Youngstown, Ohio
Status: offline 		For me, Good pain is when the Dom and i are playing around... BAD pain is punishment....

< Message edited by kittensmailbox -- 4/26/2006 11:37:10 AM >

_____________________________

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~lowers her eyes in respect~

~kitten

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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 12:14:55 PM   
Chiana


Posts: 16
Joined: 5/20/2005
Status: offline 		bad pain is the pain i feel on a constant basis because of a condition i have called fibromyalgia.. good pain is the type that comes from play that makes the bad go away... i love playing because only during that time do i not 'feel' pain.. it is all transmuted to something nice and warm

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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 1:34:56 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks for the replies but I am really not looking for examples of good pain/bad pain. I know what those are. What I am looking for is more along the lines of knowledge relating to why it is that I...and apparently some others....feel pain in a different or lessened way....or if it is a matter of long term conditioning. I'd also like to know how others deal with it.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 1:48:41 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Thanks for the replies but I am really not looking for examples of good pain/bad pain. I know what those are. What I am looking for is more along the lines of knowledge relating to why it is that I...and apparently some others....feel pain in a different or lessened way....or if it is a matter of long term conditioning. I'd also like to know how others deal with it.

It's both really.  We all have our standard pain tolerances and reactions, but those can be changed dramatically given the circumstances.  And while we can experience something AS pain- we can either ignore it, succumb to it, or transfer it to pleasure.  And pain can be experienced a million ways- ache, sting, bite, itch, sore, throb, pinch and more.

One time my master was whipping my clitoris and made me hold my labia back.  After awhile he stopped because he said he saw blood and was worried.  What had happened was that my nails had dug in so hard because I was straining to remain still that they had cut into the skin.  I hadn't felt it at all.

Over long term exposure, your pain tolerance can also change dramatically, just like any conditioning.  But it can revert back over time is the exposure stops, and becoming accustomed to 500 swats with a paddle won't do anything for how you process needles- different pathways and pain sensors, different conditioning circumstances.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 3:04:56 PM   
Chiana


Posts: 16
Joined: 5/20/2005
Status: offline 		well, from my experience, i have found that if you have a certain pain for an extended period of time, your body will adjust to that specific stimulation and essentially tune it out. it is still there and there are other complications which arise from having that constant stimulation whether you are noticing it or not, ie fatigue and/or memory loss. each new stimulation will be noticed, but only for a period of time until it is incorporated into what the body is accustomed to and then tuned out.
if you cannot control the type of pain you are feeling, there really isn't anything you can do about if your body is going to recognize it as pain.. but if you can control, you might want to limit the scenes, change the type of pain stimulation or something similiar

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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 3:21:41 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		I think our pain tolerances in different areas are related to our associations. I had a similar thing to you happen re a doctor telling me he doesnt know how I ignored what was going on inside me for so long that ended up leading to my hysterectomy (there was just too much to do to think about it).

In play depending on my frame of mind, I can take a lot, yet if I stubbed my toe *ouch!!*. Also I've found if I've been hurt, I can just switch the pain off.

So yeah, I think it has a lot to do with our associations.

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 4:21:29 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		gotcha now erin sweet..... .. Good pain for me is the aches and pains after doing a good work out oe earlier in life after splitting several tons of 4' red gum for the fire. It was the pain from welts and bruises after a Medieval tournament. The split lips half closed eye after a fight.... bad pain is mostly from accident or mishap or even due to illness.....Good pain is enjoyable because it was earned as part of an achievment (my pain I earned it so I may as well enjoy it). D'you think I'm a masochist or is it just the Irish in me..... I know a whisky tasts better after you've spat out a tooth that some one tried to knockout.... 

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 4:32:00 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

D'you think I'm a masochist or is it just the Irish in me..... I know a whisky tasts better after you've spat out a tooth that some one tried to knockout.... 


Hmmmm....you mean it might just be that I'm a thick headed Mick?....lol. You might be on to something!

Seriously though, I have been doing some searching today and came across an article that relates pain perception to hair and skin tone...something to do with the amount of melanin produced. Unfortunately though it placed me...having very fair skin and red hair (they even mentioned "as in the Irish") in the group that should feel pain most intensely....exactly opposite of what I seem to be experiencing. Or maybe I do experience it intensely but just process it differently. Gosh I just don't know. But I did find it an interesting read.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 5:49:40 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Good pain is when I'm wounded and the pain stops me from just closing my eyes and letting go of this world.. It Tells Me I'm Alive

Bad pain is what keeps me awake at night or stops me from walking outside to getthemail or hang out the laundry and for which Morphine Sulphate is sometimes necessary......



Amen Bear. I refer to the top portion of your post as ''sweet pain''


 - R


_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 7:12:55 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

as alike as we are, there can be a HUGE range in how people perceive and process pain.


quote:

yes your signals are a little confused from years of reconditioning bdsm or something else deep inside that values perseverance over attention 


quote:

different pathways and pain sensors, different conditioning circumstances. 


quote:

i have found that if you have a certain pain for an extended period of time, your body will adjust to that specific stimulation and essentially tune it out 


quote:

each new stimulation will be noticed, but only for a period of time until it is incorporated into what the body is accustomed to and then tuned out 


quote:

In play depending on my frame of mind, I can take a lot, yet if I stubbed my toe *ouch!!*. Also I've found if I've been hurt, I can just switch the pain off.
So yeah, I think it has a lot to do with our associations. 


quote:

bad pain is mostly from accident or mishap or even due to illness


So in essence what you are all saying is that it is I who am somehow processing the pain in this manner....possibly incorrectly? This really does make some sense to me because as I sit here and think about it I think of pain in 2 ways. There is pain from an injury...it is immediate and intense. If I deal with that long enough, the pain then becomes suffering. Now, as a chronic pain sufferer due to illness and injury, I have actually learned how over time to handle this well. This is where the endurance and perserverance part of me kicks in....which I am sure also kicks in during BDSM play.

This really does make a lot of sense, although I would also love to hear if anyone has a knowledge of nerve pathways and pain receptors...specifically whether or not they can be defective or possibly damaged or desensitized over time.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 7:37:32 PM   
TemptingNviceSub


Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline 		There is a medical condition called Congenital Insensitivity to Pain with Anhidrosis or (CIPA).....be well..tempting

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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 7:39:06 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		wow...thank you....I willl check that out

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 9:46:33 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		erin lass, you and I are Celts.. We hurt and we love with passionate itensity dont we? WE hate the same way.. It is part of what we are... Celts are a proud people, as the Romans found out to their loss in the end. We just dont lay down and let things kick the shyte out of us without biting their balls first....

May the spirit of the tua da dannan be ever strong in thy heart sweet red head, the sun warm thy back, the moon light thy path, the stars ever shine in thyr eyes and the sidah dance aside thee..



< Message edited by IronBear -- 4/26/2006 9:47:08 PM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/26/2006 10:08:57 PM   
CERCKL


Posts: 1039
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline 		I have VERY limited understanding regarding this; I do know that pain is just a signal to the brain and it's how the brain processes and interprets that signal as to our reaction to 'pain'; pain is subjective, My ex is a RN and the hospitals have taken to a 1-10 scale for pain, as what I experience as a 5 you might as an 8 or a 3...and having the patient interpret their own pain helps in the pain management decisions...I also know that our receptors can get 'stuck' and the same message can be delivered without stimuli (happens alot with chronic pain sufferers)...but I also recognize that pain is intended as a message...such as if a certain pain happens, do not do this activity (muscle pain etc)...certain neurochemicals are released during pain, similar to pleasure, so the message can be confused in how interpreted...

C

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RE: Good pain/ bad pain ~ blurred lines? - 4/27/2006 5:19:00 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Tempting I did check out that CIPA but I don't think that is anything at all like what I've got going on. It seems that those folks can't feel pain at all. Not to mention that the other characteristics of the disease are severe mental retardation and an expected lifespan of 25 years. But thank you...it was interesting.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)
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