RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (Full Version)

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Fightdirecto -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/29/2011 11:04:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

LEFT WING TERRORIST!  LEFT WING TERRORIST!


More properly:

FUNDAMENTALIST RELIGIOUS TERRORIST! FUNDAMENTALIST RELIGIOUS TERRORIST!





popeye1250 -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/29/2011 11:37:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

LEFT WING TERRORIST!  LEFT WING TERRORIST!


More properly:

FUNDAMENTALIST RELIGIOUS TERRORIST! FUNDAMENTALIST RELIGIOUS TERRORIST!




Here we go again, the lefties *just can't* bring themselves to say it!
"MUSLIM TERRORIST! MUSLIM TERRORIST!"
What's the schtick here, they "need" everyone to "love" them or what?
If this guy was a wacked out Baptist they'd be all over him!
The Westboro Baptist Church disrupts military funerals and shouts all kinds of vile things and the lefties call it "free speech."
This must be related to the Stockholm syndrome.
And the main stream press is trying to give this guy's "religion" , "a good leaving alone."




mnottertail -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/29/2011 11:38:12 AM)

But he is decidedly a rightwing terrorist according to most of the rightwingers out here. 




TheHeretic -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/29/2011 6:33:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

The Westboro Baptist Church disrupts military funerals and shouts all kinds of vile things and the lefties call it "free speech."



Let's be accurate, Popeye.  I call it free speech, too, and I'm hardly a leftie.




Owner59 -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/29/2011 7:41:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fightdirecto

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

LEFT WING TERRORIST!  LEFT WING TERRORIST!


More properly:

FUNDAMENTALIST RELIGIOUS TERRORIST! FUNDAMENTALIST RELIGIOUS TERRORIST!




Here we go again, the lefties *just can't* bring themselves to say it!
"MUSLIM TERRORIST! MUSLIM TERRORIST!"
What's the schtick here, they "need" everyone to "love" them or what?
If this guy was a wacked out Baptist they'd be all over him!
The Westboro Baptist Church disrupts military funerals and shouts all kinds of vile things and the lefties call it "free speech."
This must be related to the Stockholm syndrome.
And the main stream press is trying to give this guy's "religion" , "a good leaving alone."


It doesn`t fucking matter what a killer`s religion is,professor....

The only thing that comes from that kind scrutiny is bigotry inflicted on good,moderate people.

The one common denominator between radical Muslims and neo-cons is their monolithic view that the other side are ALL the same.



And you`re so full of shit on the WBC comment.



Show me one liberal who has defended them,here or anywhere, you low class liar.


And now for some comic relief.

[image]http://godlessliberals.com/media/kunena/attachments/62/chrispesto.jpg[/image]




Aswad -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/29/2011 7:49:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HannahLynHeather

quote:

Naser Jason Abdo
you know, if i was a peaceful mind-my-fucking-business muslim in america, i would be so fucking pissed off at these assholes! [:D]


That has been the general sentiment among muslims in Norway.

Now I'm going to share a little something that I considered keeping to myself.


Parents of teenage kids may want to stop reading here.


In the aftermath of the attacks, people obviously had a lot of questions they couldn't answer themselves. Trauma teams were dealing with the victims, trauma experts were responding to questions in the media, and individuals like myself tried to offer solace and answers to people having difficulties in our immediate surroundings. In the course of this, most of the questions were as you would expect.

Now, I'm used to being the guy that holds people and makes them feel safe as they cry, the shoulder to lean on or the sympathetic ear. I'm used to keeping my careful detachment without distancing myself too much to empathize, to answering difficult questions in honest but consoling ways, to hearing people open up about things that are sometimes even difficult to hear. And, generally, I don't see or hear anything that makes it too difficult to maintain my composure, except when it concerns the people that are too close to my heart to keep any distance to (not in the sense of being impossible, but in the sense that I don't want to stop feeling intensely about the people I care about).

This time, life had a curveball in store.

I'm going to very roughly translate a question by a young muslim girl.


"Hello. I'm a 13 year old Norwegian Muslim, and I feel that this is all my fault. He says he killed all those kids because I'm here. Should I leave the country to protect other Norwegian children in the future? That's what I feel I should do. Regards, (name omitted)."


Imagine, being a teenager again in this day and age, and having such an event occur in your immediate surroundings, in a country where even armed robbery gets on the national news. Then imagine, if you can, blaming yourself for what at the time was believed to be about a hundred deaths- the youngest 5 years old- and an equivalent number so grievously injured that the firearms injuries unit was shocked to see it, let alone treat it.

Terrorism doesn't have race, creed, ethnicity or nationality. And it is rarely representative of the bulk of the people its instruments claim to represent. Some will obviously support or defend it, just as some people worldwide (including back here at home) have supported the actions of the man who perpetrated these crimes. There are always some who defend any action that the rest of us find revolting. Mostly these are people who lack either the imagination to comprehend the impact of what they defend, or the empathy to relate to it, or people who are so convinced that they are right and so full of anger and hatred that they will condone anything. Whether the acts are done by a small group, or a large government, changes little in this regard.

Most Muslims are well adjusted people with their heart in the right place. Most football fans aren't hooligans. Most patriots aren't klansfolk. Most socialists aren't RZ-like. Most sadists aren't killers. Most soldiers aren't warmongerers. Most drug users aren't cartel supporter. Most Christians aren't crusaders. And so on, and so forth.

I am aware of some groups that stand out. Indeed, to the point where action should be taken.

But even in those groups, the subgroups that cause a problem are small. Norwegian criminal and employment statistics show that three countries have regions where the people are problematic. The percentage of the population from those regions of those countries that is a problem is just shy of 25% among the largest group, and if I remember the diasporal demographics correctly, we're about the only country in the west to take them in in any significant number. Now, that's a minority inside a minority inside a minority inside a minority. It's sufficient to warrant revoking the right to stay when felonies are committed by that tiny group, provided the felony occurs prior to permanent citizenship. But it's not sufficient to generalize these issues onto a larger group. Certainly not whole countries.

I don't want anyone to feel like that girl, except the ones that are responsible.

And with regard to groups, I still subscribe to the presumption of innocence.

After the attacks, there were a few lynchings of Muslims in Oslo. And in the middle of grieving over an attack on a city that is as much theirs as anyone else's, before the identity of the attacker was found, they had to contend with fear of reprisals, and with being royally pissed off at being stabbed in the back by people claiming to speak for them.

Bears thinking about.

Health,
al-Aswad.




Aswad -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/29/2011 7:54:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Given that the Fenians used to get the bulk of their funding from Americans, I think the Republicans are quite keen to forget the IRA. The spectacle of Clinton and the chimp wining and dining Gerry Adams every Saint Paddy's day was fairly repulsive...


I wasn't going to raise the topic of the Dept. of Homeland Security... honest. [:D]

"Say not that he's hypocritical, say rather that he's apolitical."

Health,
al-Aswad.




Owner59 -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/29/2011 8:01:20 PM)

Thanks for posting about the 13 yo.

That was quite sad.




TheHeretic -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/29/2011 8:03:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Show me one liberal who has defended them,here or anywhere, you low class liar.




This concept will probably go way the hell over your head, O59, but defending WBC's right to free speech has nothing to do with defending those miserable shits, themselves.  And if liberals aren't willing to do that, then they have no claim to the name.




Anaxagoras -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/29/2011 8:59:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
Jihadists account for a handful of attacks per year on average, worldwide.

No offense but certain parts of your posts (like the above quote) sound like apologism. Besides the second attempt at Fort Hood and the terrorist attacks in Iraq and Afghanistan, in the few days after the terrorist atrocity in Norway there were numerous serious attacks by Islamicists which killed a large number of people. Here are a few over that period:

Car bomb kills 8 Yemeni soldiers [Toll 10+ subsequently], wounds scores in coastal city of Aden, officials say: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/yemeni-officials-car-bomb-kills-8-army-soldiers-074237062.html

Suicide bomber in Pakistan: http://english.irib.ir/subcontinent/news/regional/item/79704-terrorist-attack-in-pakistan-one-soldier-killed

Pakistani President condemns terrorist attack on Kulachi Police Station where approx 14 were killed: http://app.com.pk/en_/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=143306&Itemid=2

Two police killed, railway bombed in south Thailand, and a few days earlier seven were injured in a bomb attack on some teachers http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i9qUITOVRKJQEf1LlxMIBHFSU_Ig?docId=4b4c0ba6335f44f5adc3e34c6baaaaff

Islamist Gunmen kill Dagestan political spokesman http://m.news24.com/news24/World/News/Gunmen-kill-Dagestan-spokesperson-20110728


The list of terror attacks with Islamicist motivation is immense and justifiably worrying - that is not to say the vast majority of Muslims are not peaceful but there are great problems with radicalism: http://ruediger-plantiko.net/cgi-bin/attacks.pl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead
Given that the Fenians used to get the bulk of their funding from Americans, I think the Republicans are quite keen to forget the IRA. The spectacle of Clinton and the chimp wining and dining Gerry Adams every Saint Paddy's day was fairly repulsive...

I wasn't going to raise the topic of the Dept. of Homeland Security... honest. [:D]

"Say not that he's hypocritical, say rather that he's apolitical."

Just as you object to others projecting negatively on Norway, I have to say I do not like it when others in this way use a complex issue like the situation in Northern Ireland to relativise terrorism. Unfortunately a lot of people in the UK have issues over the peace process in Northern Ireland even though it has brought massive benefits with surprising speed. The peevishness of some British people is absurd considering that they were not the ones to make the most compromise. The US Republicans are not any more supportive of the IRA than the Democrats. Far less so in fact. Peter King, who you allude to, is an exception. He may be hypocritical but nonetheless he played a very important role in the peace process which Bill Clinton acknowledged. Secondly Bush Jr., a Republican, stopped Adams visiting the White House in 2005 and 2006 until he made more effort. The British objected to that but it actually helped the process. The involvement of the US in the peace process actually helped dramatically. I wonder would the people who keep complaining about Adams etc. prefer there to still be open conflict in Northern Ireland where several thousand died from the sixties to the early nineties?




Aswad -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/29/2011 11:52:09 PM)

Adams et al was a bit tongue in cheek.

I would object to categorizing what I say as apologism, but whatever. My recollection is ~10/yr from the jihadist groups, vs ~3/yr from the right wing groups, but without having the statistics on hand, I can't make a useful refutation. Note that I can't recall if these were numbers for Europe, the West or worldwide, which obviously makes a difference. In Europe, the number is (IIRC) currently dominated by seperatist and secessionist groups.

As regards Iraq and Afghanistan, we count things differently.

Back in the day, we were the terrorists, Nazy Germany was the interventional force, and collaborators were fair game. So you'll excuse me if our perspectives might differ on the correct classification of the conflict in those two theatres. There's a legitimate argument that they are equally classifiable as an armed resistance movement when operating on home soil, given that there is a foreign military presence in their country with a stated interest in pursuing them. Me, I'm not going to take a stand on which classification is correct as regards the present state of affairs there, but neither am I inclined to lump the actions there in with the rest of the statistics while not counting terrorist tactics by recognized nations in the same manner.

IRA isn't a blind spot, incidentally, but that's going to take us way off track.

Anyway, I think you missed my point, so don't take me all seriously.

Health,
al-Aswad.




Anaxagoras -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/30/2011 5:30:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad
Adams et al was a bit tongue in cheek.

Fair enough.

quote:


I would object to categorizing what I say as apologism, but whatever. My recollection is ~10/yr from the jihadist groups, vs ~3/yr from the right wing groups, but without having the statistics on hand, I can't make a useful refutation. Note that I can't recall if these were numbers for Europe, the West or worldwide, which obviously makes a difference. In Europe, the number is (IIRC) currently dominated by seperatist and secessionist groups.

You stated that a handful of Islamic terror attacks were committed world-wide not just in the West. My point was that in the few days after the terrorist attack in Norway numerous serious attacks were committed by Islamicists. I made that point by citing five attacks I know of, and included links to the stories. There are many that don't make it to the Western press. I excluded a number of very seriouus attacks in Afghanistan and Iraq.

quote:


As regards Iraq and Afghanistan, we count things differently.

Back in the day, we were the terrorists, Nazy Germany was the interventional force, and collaborators were fair game. So you'll excuse me if our perspectives might differ on the correct classification of the conflict in those two theatres.

You should remember Ireland was occupied for far longer than Norway so I understand the point. I don't agree, and not because its Muslims versus the US and allies.

quote:


There's a legitimate argument that they are equally classifiable as an armed resistance movement when operating on home soil, given that there is a foreign military presence in their country with a stated interest in pursuing them. Me, I'm not going to take a stand on which classification is correct as regards the present state of affairs there, but neither am I inclined to lump the actions there in with the rest of the statistics while not counting terrorist tactics by recognized nations in the same manner.

Indeed there is but I don't think it is a straightforward comparison with Norway decades ago. The first point is that we (and they) all know that after a few years the US was only too keen to get out of these areas unlike the Nazi's. I would class many (perhaps not all) insurgent attacks as terrorism for two reasons. Many of the insurgents are actually foreign, especially in Iraq. Secondly they target the civilians as much as the military. Iraq Body Count, an NGO dealing with casulties (official figures and unofficial counts) affirmed that of 122,000 civillian deaths up until that point in the war (2003 to 2010), over 80% were caused by insurgents. They killed over 100,000 civilians! Thus I cannot conceive they are genuine resistance fighters. They are in reality just trying to inflict a humiliating defeat on the US. Some of them also keep trying to impose a Jizya head tax on Iraqi Christians.

quote:


IRA isn't a blind spot, incidentally, but that's going to take us way off track.

Anyway, I think you missed my point, so don't take me all seriously.

I do take your points seriously, that is why I responded. It really depends on your point with regard to the IRA. People keep bringing them up in every argument I see as a method to relativise the phenomenon of Islamic terrorism. Islamic terrorism is different as it can occur in any part of the world while the IRA arose after centuries of vicious sectarianism. I also classify the IRA as terrorists even if their cause is legitimate. I don't like Adams but my point is that it is better to have types like him onside if it results in a meaningful peace.




mnottertail -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/30/2011 5:37:44 AM)

 Many of the insurgents are actually foreign, especially in Iraq. Secondly they target the civilians as much as the military.

I can find no credible citation for this claim.

Iraq Body Count, an NGO dealing with casulties (official figures and unofficial counts) affirmed that of 122,000 civillian deaths up until that point in the war (2003 to 2010), over 80% were caused by insurgents.

I find no credible citation for this claim on that site, and I read pretty deep, into PLOS and whatnot....


Can you help me out here?




imperatrixx -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/30/2011 6:04:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
This concept will probably go way the hell over your head, O59, but defending WBC's right to free speech has nothing to do with defending those miserable shits, themselves.  And if liberals aren't willing to do that, then they have no claim to the name.


mte




Anaxagoras -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/30/2011 7:12:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Many of the insurgents are actually foreign, especially in Iraq. Secondly they target the civilians as much as the military.

I can find no credible citation for this claim.

I thought it was well known for some time that insurgents from abroad cross from Syria http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/01/15/1073877963219.html and Iran http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/oct/24/wikileaks-back-bush-claims-iran-role-iraq-war/ - Estimates vary but it seems foreigners represent around a quarter of the insurgents from what I read over the period and featured a good bit in the news http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9173345/from/RL.1/ - One of the main leaders of insurgency besides al-Qaeda was a Jordanian Islamicist called Abu Musab al Zarqawi.

quote:


Iraq Body Count, an NGO dealing with casulties (official figures and unofficial counts) affirmed that of 122,000 civillian deaths up until that point in the war (2003 to 2010), over 80% were caused by insurgents.

I find no credible citation for this claim on that site, and I read pretty deep, into PLOS and whatnot....

I note you use the term credible twice so perhaps you will argue no matter what source I supply but here are a few things I dug up with some google searches just now to cite.

quote:

2008 RAND Research Brief Counterinsurgency in Iraq: 2003 - 2006 depicts a chart that shows in June and July 2004, Iraqi insurgents began to shift their focus away from attacking U.S. and coalition forces with roadside bombs and instead began targeting the Iraqi population with suicide bombers and vehicle-borne IEDs. By increasing the number of suicide bombings against civilians and accepting their targeting in retribution, the insurgents sought to expose the weakness of the coalition-Iraqi security and reconstruction apparatus, threaten those who collaborated with the government, generate funds and propaganda, and increasingly enact sectarian revenge. The U.S. failure to adapt to this shift had dramatic consequences. By June 2004, U.S. deaths represented less than 10% of overall deaths on the battlefield and Iraqi deaths represented more than 90%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bombings_in_Iraq_since_2003

IBC is notably vague in attributing deaths to insurgents and have been crotocosed for anti-US bias but at least they try to be accurate by not inflating figures at a time when anti-war protestors have claimed over a million died there. They aren't pro-US but still affirmed relatively low figures for deaths as a result of US actions there http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio#Coalition_forces_in_the_Iraq_War - "According to a 2010 assessment by John Sloboda of Iraq Body Count, a United Kingdom-based organization, American and Coalition forces had killed at least 22,668 combatants as well as 13,807 civilians in the Iraq War, indicating an essential civilian to combatant casualty ratio of 1:2. It is not clear what percentage of civilians were killed in the initial (conventional war) invasion, as opposed to the percentage killed in the insurgency since." This was at a time when they affirmed 122,000 civilians had been killed in total http://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/numbers/warlogs/




farglebargle -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/30/2011 7:31:27 AM)

quote:

Why so quick to jump at shadows?


Because they're pussies.




mnottertail -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/30/2011 7:50:18 AM)

regarding 1.  There is scant evidence for the assertion, a warning from Saddam to his loyalists and an anecdotal evidence that one insurgent or two or three was trained somewhere other than Iraq will not (by me) be enough to weigh in favor.  Many of the boys that are training the terror business have been doing so for years, and I would not expect most to get that training at Tallahassee JuCo. 

We only have two or three places in the US to train the Army at the War College (one nominal war college, however) and actually, many nations send their higher level officers to us for training.  I would hate to have to class the deceased King Hussein as an American trained Islamic (terrorist) insurgent.  

regarding 2.

the citation by IBC seems to me to be in disagreement with Rand (who I have serious reservations about) the IBC while it does NOT directly give a number to insurgents, at least gives a number to coalition, separate from known US and separate from I forget what, and those numbers add to at least 50-65% leaving the rest in the catagory unknown.

Additionally, the number of Iraqi casualites from insurgents is as hard to pin down as it is from coalition forces.

http://usliberals.about.com/od/homelandsecurit1/a/IraqNumbers.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War


I do not agree with the conclusions you have extended,  it is a safe bet that you do not agree with my..............I doubt that, and I doubt alot of other things about this.

You have given reasonably credible citations for the second part, but credible does not extend to reality (by example, I find Boener credible, but without a shot)

The first one, not so much.  

In either case, they are not persuasive and factual, but poorly shored up opinions, in my estimation.  For instance, if they held a modicum of truth, we should see a great influx of these guys into Libya on behalf of the 'brothers', and we don't.  At any rate, if such a thing were true, (and I maintain that it is most probably not), it would be for the reasons of kicking us out of the country, because we invaded it without cause.   When we do see casualties caused by insurgents against 'civilians' it appears in the bulk of cases, that it is because they were percieved as 'helping' the US aggression.   Look at how many are ex-mil and police, etc.   

Nevertheless, people are dead.  And this is a very fucked up deal for us.

So...we will have to leave it there.     




Owner59 -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/30/2011 8:25:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: imperatrixx


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
This concept will probably go way the hell over your head, O59, but defending WBC's right to free speech has nothing to do with defending those miserable shits, themselves.  And if liberals aren't willing to do that, then they have no claim to the name.


mte


In the loser`s rush to attack mode,he missed that I also am for free speech,even for fucks like wbc and for fucks like him too.

My solution and most liberal`s,no......make that most thinking American`s solution to 1st amendment abuse,is more free speech.






Anaxagoras -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/30/2011 8:25:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
regarding 1.  There is scant evidence for the assertion, a warning from Saddam to his loyalists and an anecdotal evidence that one insurgent was trained somewhere other than Iraq will not (by me) be enough to weigh in favor.

That was only one part of the point.

quote:


regarding 2.

the citation by IBC seems to me to be in disagreement with Rand (who I have serious reservations about) the IBC while it does NOT directly give a number to insurgents, at least gives a number to coalition, separate from known US and separate from I forget what, and those numbers add to at least 50-65% leaving the rest in the catagory unknown.

Additionally, the number of Iraqi casualites from insurgents is as hard to pin down as it is from coalition forces.

It would be even harder to pin down attacks from insurgency. There is a further 2011 report on the IBC website which points to a huge majority of atacks being from unknown sources but still gets to blame the US thanks to a newly invented measure for the report called the dirty war index since some US attackstend to be more indiscriminate.

quote:


I do not agree with the conclusions you have extended,  it is a safe bet that you do not agree with my..............I doubt that, and I doubt alot of other things about this.

You have given reasonably credible citations for the second part, but credible does not extend to reality (by example, I find Boener credible, but without a shot)

The first one, not so much.  

Check out this source http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/globalterrorism1.html - of the 66 worst terrorist attacks of all time (categorised as killing over 100), 20 occur within seven years in Iraq which IMO is a remarkable statistic considering that the vast majority of insurgent attacks wouldn't get near three figures.

quote:


In either case, they are not persuasive and factual, but poorly shored up opinions, in my estimation.  For instance, if they held a modicum of truth, we should see a great influx of these guys into Libya on behalf of the 'brothers', and we don't.    

Well the IBC is considered by many on the anti-war left to be the definitive source on casualties in Iraq.

In my estimation Libya has a lot of difference with Iraq and Afghanistan. The strikes there were not led by the "Big Satan", had the support of the Arab League for a time, now have support from Muslim countries like Turkey and isn't a ground invasion so insurgents couldn't do a great deal. Besides which resistance to Ghadaffi comes from the Arab Spring

quote:


At any rate, if such a thing were true, (and I maintain that it is most probably not), it would be for the reasons of kicking us out of the country, because we invaded it without cause. When we do see casualties caused by insurgents against 'civilians' it appears in the bulk of cases, that it is because they were percieved as 'helping' the US aggression. Look at how many are ex-mil and police, etc.

Nevertheless, people are dead.  And this is a very fucked up deal for us.

Its true to say they target certain types more than others. However, working with Iraqi civil institutions could only at a stretch be seen as collaboration with the US since these institutions would take over when the US leaves. More likely it is done to continue to destabilise the country and push the US into leaving in defeat in a humiliating fashion whilst giving greater control of Iraq to the insurgents themselves.

quote:


Nevertheless, people are dead. And this is a very fucked up deal for us.

Yeah the invasion was without real cause and caused a lot of suffering regardless of the civilian killing.




kdsub -> RE: Another Domestic Terrorist (7/30/2011 8:54:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: farglebargle

quote:

Why so quick to jump at shadows?


Because they're pussies.


But we jump harder then anyone else...ever




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