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kalikshama -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 11:38:44 AM)
Thanks! I was racking my brain trying to remember the title. Here's links and one can read the first chapter for free here: http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/b/becker-fear.html?_r=2 http://www.amazon.com/Other-Survival-Signals-Protect-Violence/dp/0440508835/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332873441&sr=8-1 DeBecker's best lessons are learning how to listen to yourself, how to interpret warning signs from dangerous people, and teaching us how to predict behavior. You don't have to be "surprised" by someone's crazy or hostile actions if you can see them coming and cut them off at the pass. He points out that every time we get behind the wheel of a car, we're predicting what every other driver on the road will do. All we have to learn is how to apply that knowledge to a boyfriend who won't take no for an answer, a neighbor who takes a creepy interest in our kid, or a job applicant who is a little too persistent. DeBecker says some things that will rub people the wrong way--such as, for battered partners: the first time it happens, you're a victim and the second time, you're a volunteer. But that's actually true. If you KNOW what this person is going to do, and you choose to stay in the relationship in spite of this information, then you have to own the consequences. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gift_of_Fear De Becker's book presents a paradox of genre: described as a "how-to book that reads like a thriller."[1] By finding patterns in stories of violence and abuse, de Becker seeks to highlight the inherent predictability of violence. The book explores various settings where violence may be found—the workplace, the home, the school, dating—and describes what de Becker calls pre-incident indicators (PINS). When properly identified these PINS can help violence be avoided; when violence is unavoidable, de Becker claims it can usually be predicted and better understood. The Gift of Fear also describes de Becker’s MOSAIC Threat Assessment Systems, which have been employed by various celebrities and government agencies to predict and prevent violence. PINS (Pre-Incident Indicators) - Forced Teaming. This is when a person tries to pretend that he has something in common with a person and that they are in the same predicament when that isn't really true. - Charm and Niceness. This is being polite and friendly to a person in order to manipulate him or her. - Too many details. If a person is lying they will add excessive details to make themselves sound more credible. - Typecasting. An insult to get a person who would otherwise ignore one to talk to one.[clarification needed] - Loan Sharking. Giving unsolicited help and expecting favors in return. - The Unsolicited Promise. A promise to do (or not do) something when no such promise is asked for; this usually means that such a promise will be broken. For example: an unsolicited, "I promise I'll leave you alone after this," usually means you will not be left alone. Similarly, an unsolicited "I promise I won't hurt you" usually means the person intends to hurt you. - Discounting the Word "No". Refusing to accept rejection.

Killerangel -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 11:41:46 AM)
The Gift of Fear is one awesome book. I bought it because of a recommendation on this site long ago and it was one of the most interesting yet instructive books I've ever read. I highly recommend it.

kalikshama -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 11:42:34 AM)
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/b/becker-fear.html?_r=2 ...I've presented these facts about the frequency of violence for a reason: to increase the likelihood that you will believe it is at least possible that you or someone you care for will be a victim at some time. That belief is a key element in recognizing when you are in the presence of danger. That belief balances denial, the powerful and cunning enemy of successful predictions. Even having learned these facts of life and death, some readers will still compartmentalize the hazards in order to exclude themselves: "Sure, there's a lot of violence, but that's in the inner city"; "Yeah, a lot of women are battered, but I'm not in a relationship now"; "Violence is a problem for younger people, or older people"; "You're only at risk if you're out late at night"; "People bring it on themselves," and on and on. Americans are experts at denial, a choir whose song could be titled "Things Like That Don't Happen in This Neighborhood." Denial has an interesting and insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn't so, the fall they take when victimized is far, far greater than that of those who accept the possibility. Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level, and it causes a constant low-grade anxiety. Millions of people suffer that anxiety, and denial keeps them from taking action that could reduce the risks (and the worry). If we studied any other creature in nature and found the record of intraspecies violence that human beings have, we would be repulsed by it. We'd view it as a great perversion of natural law--but we wouldn't deny it. As we stand on the tracks, we can only avoid the oncoming train if we are willing to see it and willing to predict that it won't stop. ... We don't need to learn about violence, many feel, because the police will handle it, the criminal-justice system will handle it, experts will handle it. Though it touches us all and belongs to us all, and though we each have something profound to contribute to the solution, we have left this critical inquiry to people who tell us that violence cannot be predicted, that risk is a game of odds, and that anxiety is an unavoidable part of life. Not one of these conventional "wisdoms" is true.

MissKittyDeVine -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 12:33:20 PM)
Sparkles - I agree with Athena when she says there is NO grey area here. This man abused your trust and your body. I suspect you were groomed to break down your resistance. That this was done within a D/s relationship is simply the method he used. An abuser will have the victim thinking that it is their fault. You are young, and even women much older than you are capable of making mistakes, so don´t beat yourself up about this, but learn from it, and as everyone says, get counselling.

SailingBum -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 12:47:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LoreBook You said no and he did it anyway, that's all that's needed to constitute rape. You were raped, that it was gentle or even pleasant doesn't change anything, you were raped. What you do about it from here is up to you. Dunno If she was raped....Why did she continue to see him??? You need more than he said she said to "prove rape" and I suspect his version of event might be slightly different. BadOne

Ishtarr -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 1:17:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SailingBum quote: ORIGINAL: LoreBook You said no and he did it anyway, that's all that's needed to constitute rape. You were raped, that it was gentle or even pleasant doesn't change anything, you were raped. What you do about it from here is up to you. Dunno If she was raped....Why did she continue to see him??? You need more than he said she said to "prove rape" and I suspect his version of event might be slightly different. BadOne I agree with this, especially seeing that she didn't even start to think of herself as raped until several other people heard her side of how she now relays the story and brought up rape. She didn't feel raped as the events occurred and continued to see him for months. Only after breaking up again, after telling a story to strangers in a certain way while already having negative feelings about the breaking, only after those strangers bring up rape... she starts feeling as if she was raped... that doesn't sound to me like it was indeed black and white nonconsensual. I'm not suggesting that he necessarily didn't rape her, but from what she's saying here, there is no real evidence that he did. It's very likely that if you hear his side of the story, you'll get a completely different version of the facts, and a whole bunch of items she left off that make it questionable whether she really wasn't consenting. For example AND I'M NOT SAYING THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED TO THE OP: Woman goes over to man's house feeling vulnerable. She drinks. He starts touching with her. She immediately and openly returns his touch. Kissing him, and undressing him as he starts to undress her. She then pauses and says: "no, I really shouldn't do this" but immediately continues to kiss, caress and undress him. He proceeds to kiss, caress and touch her, and pulls her close to initiate sex. She shifts in position to make access to her easier and returns his actions. Now, that's a fucking blurry situation. Was she or was she not raped? She said "no" sure, but she reacted contrary to what she said and initiated things at least in part herself. People say stuff in bed all the time. Simple stating "no" isn't always clear, and isn't always enough, ESPECIALLY not when a woman says "yes" every other way imaginable. Now if a guy has got half a brain, he CHECKS and double checks with a woman who has made the SMALLEST verbal expression that MAY indicate she may not want to have sex, just to make sure that he's not going to get a rape charge for her changing her mind afterwards because of what somebody else who only heard one side of the story said. If there is the least bit of doubt, a smart guy won't go near a woman, even if she does want to have sex, or acts in every way like she does. However, being an idiot doesn't make a guy a rapist. And several months later, after telling half a side of things to strangers who peer pressure you into believing it was rape EVEN when your initial reaction to their assertion it was rape is to FEEL that didn't happen, changing your mind doesn't make a guy a rapist. A woman who gets rapes feels deeply and intrinsically violated by that act. Having a several month relationship with a man after he supposedly raped you; and having as an initial reaction to outsiders crying rape the feeling that that's not what happened, doesn't point to her actually feeling violated on any level by him during the event. How can something be rape when she's conscious, lucid, past the age of consent AND she never even feels like anything at all is wrong?

pinksparkles12 -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 2:00:22 PM)
I felt it was wrong, why i cried and kicked .... why i was so upset, but he said sorry to me i really cared about the guy i tried to believe he wouldn't do anything to hurt me... forgiving and being wtih someone who supposedly loves you means it wouldn't be rape, what i told myself at that time and for months after. i never wanted that to happen to me i feel i was raised better than that i should have known, i blame myself for everything i knew it was a bad idea going over, but i never thought hed take me to the bedroom, i never thought hed undress me. i never in a million years thought he would fuck me hwen i said no. That whole entire night, i was in shock it's like i was in survival mode. i had a hard time understanding and coming to this realization ... i also had 3 sips of wine, don't see how that is me being drunk. when i talked to the first guy, only a FEW days after this happened i told him i said no ... i was confused at that point because i felt something was wrong, but i was trying to be positive and believe he was a good guy, i couldn't articulate it that it was rape because i had feelings for him. How can someone you love rape you? A rapist is someone i'd think that you don't love what i told myself anyway. so i'm sorry it took me a few months to understand everything, i wish i saw everything exactly how i do now, but when you are in the moment with all these emotions floating about you and you are hurting and want to believe the person you love is good no matter what, that is hard sometimes to figure out what is true. When he beat his other ex slave black and blue after they broke up and she was broken down mentally also... his wife took me into another room because she couldn't stand to watch it, it scared her AND me. What i saw that night was NOT consensual , it was someone beating the fuck out of someone else .. it made me sick to my stomach ... i remember i left his house all the next day i texted him that we had to talk .. i told him how scared i was that i saw that and he said " don't worry i'd never do that you or my wife, but she needed it." i just didn't know that he'd make me have sex with him when i really didn't want it months later. i should have left that instant .. someone who does something like that to someone else is BOUND to do something to you eventually.

pinksparkles12 -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 2:03:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kalikshama Thanks! I was racking my brain trying to remember the title. Here's links and one can read the first chapter for free here: http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/b/becker-fear.html?_r=2 http://www.amazon.com/Other-Survival-Signals-Protect-Violence/dp/0440508835/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332873441&sr=8-1 DeBecker's best lessons are learning how to listen to yourself, how to interpret warning signs from dangerous people, and teaching us how to predict behavior. You don't have to be "surprised" by someone's crazy or hostile actions if you can see them coming and cut them off at the pass. He points out that every time we get behind the wheel of a car, we're predicting what every other driver on the road will do. All we have to learn is how to apply that knowledge to a boyfriend who won't take no for an answer, a neighbor who takes a creepy interest in our kid, or a job applicant who is a little too persistent. DeBecker says some things that will rub people the wrong way--such as, for battered partners: the first time it happens, you're a victim and the second time, you're a volunteer. But that's actually true. If you KNOW what this person is going to do, and you choose to stay in the relationship in spite of this information, then you have to own the consequences. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gift_of_Fear De Becker's book presents a paradox of genre: described as a "how-to book that reads like a thriller."[1] By finding patterns in stories of violence and abuse, de Becker seeks to highlight the inherent predictability of violence. The book explores various settings where violence may be found—the workplace, the home, the school, dating—and describes what de Becker calls pre-incident indicators (PINS). When properly identified these PINS can help violence be avoided; when violence is unavoidable, de Becker claims it can usually be predicted and better understood. The Gift of Fear also describes de Becker’s MOSAIC Threat Assessment Systems, which have been employed by various celebrities and government agencies to predict and prevent violence. PINS (Pre-Incident Indicators) - Forced Teaming. This is when a person tries to pretend that he has something in common with a person and that they are in the same predicament when that isn't really true. - Charm and Niceness. This is being polite and friendly to a person in order to manipulate him or her. - Too many details. If a person is lying they will add excessive details to make themselves sound more credible. - Typecasting. An insult to get a person who would otherwise ignore one to talk to one.[clarification needed] - Loan Sharking. Giving unsolicited help and expecting favors in return. - The Unsolicited Promise. A promise to do (or not do) something when no such promise is asked for; this usually means that such a promise will be broken. For example: an unsolicited, "I promise I'll leave you alone after this," usually means you will not be left alone. Similarly, an unsolicited "I promise I won't hurt you" usually means the person intends to hurt you. - Discounting the Word "No". Refusing to accept rejection. I was told to read this book, i think i definitely will. Thank you.

Iamsemisweet -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 2:21:59 PM)
What the hell? You need to stay away from this guy, he is a menace. You saw something like that and yet you agreed to get together with the guy? He is a violent, scary asshole, and you need to get far, far away from him. quote: ORIGINAL: pinksparkles12 When he beat his other ex slave black and blue after they broke up and she was broken down mentally also... his wife took me into another room because she couldn't stand to watch it, it scared her AND me. What i saw that night was NOT consensual , it was someone beating the fuck out of someone else .. it made me sick to my stomach ... i remember i left his house all the next day i texted him that we had to talk .. i told him how scared i was that i saw that and he said " don't worry i'd never do that you or my wife, but she needed it." i just didn't know that he'd make me have sex with him when i really didn't want it months later. i should have left that instant .. someone who does something like that to someone else is BOUND to do something to you eventually.

RakeAndCo -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 2:24:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet Except that she would have to deal with the police and their bullshit to file a report, and it sounds like that community would take sides. For what? In the absence of a prosecution, how would his next victim even know about it? The OP needs some inner peace, not more emotional battering and frustration. She needs to worry about herself. Reporting it now would come across as a woman scorned thing, and she would likely be treated as such. Who needs it? I'm torn on this. I can understand wanting to report it to make it harder for him to be in the community. But, I also understand that it would put her through the meat grinder and likely go no where. There are no witnesses and so much time has passed that I doubt it would be charged. If a BDSM community in that area prefers it to go away because he's a "valuable" member of then the community is a dump and all the so called "members" of that community need to be outed for the lunatics they are. It is rape, pure and simple, which is a social problem that can only be solved with extreme social and physical consequences to the one that engaged in it. Even if he's not going to be prosecuted, he should be prevented from being able to continue this.

SailingBum -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 2:31:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinksparkles12 When he beat his other ex slave black and blue after they broke up and she was broken down mentally also... his wife took me into another room because she couldn't stand to watch it, it scared her AND me. What i saw that night was NOT consensual , it was someone beating the fuck out of someone else .. it made me sick to my stomach ... i remember i left his house all the next day i texted him that we had to talk .. i told him how scared i was that i saw that and he said " don't worry i'd never do that you or my wife, but she needed it." i just didn't know that he'd make me have sex with him when i really didn't want it months later. i should have left that instant .. someone who does something like that to someone else is BOUND to do something to you eventually. REALLY??? It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to pick up the phone and call 911... that is of course if you believe all the drama being played out here. So after watching this guy beat the crap outta her...This wasn't your first clue saying "you're Next"! BadOne

Ishtarr -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 2:39:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinksparkles12 When he beat his other ex slave black and blue after they broke up and she was broken down mentally also... his wife took me into another room because she couldn't stand to watch it, it scared her AND me. What i saw that night was NOT consensual , it was someone beating the fuck out of someone else .. it made me sick to my stomach ... Why on Earth did you stand by and watched somebody non consensually beat the shit out of a woman without calling the cops? Why on Earth did she not press charges? Why on Earth did you text him to talk to him the next day when you saw him supposedly doing things like that? Why on Earth did you initiate a relationship with a man you supposedly know doesn't care about consent? Your either very stupid, or you're simply not telling the whole truth. Your story doesn't add up at all, and keeps getting embellished with more and more details that seem designed to elicit certain responses.

pinksparkles12 -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 2:42:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SailingBum quote: ORIGINAL: pinksparkles12 When he beat his other ex slave black and blue after they broke up and she was broken down mentally also... his wife took me into another room because she couldn't stand to watch it, it scared her AND me. What i saw that night was NOT consensual , it was someone beating the fuck out of someone else .. it made me sick to my stomach ... i remember i left his house all the next day i texted him that we had to talk .. i told him how scared i was that i saw that and he said " don't worry i'd never do that you or my wife, but she needed it." i just didn't know that he'd make me have sex with him when i really didn't want it months later. i should have left that instant .. someone who does something like that to someone else is BOUND to do something to you eventually. REALLY??? It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to pick up the phone and call 911... that is of course if you believe all the drama being played out here. So after watching this guy beat the crap outta her...This wasn't your first clue saying "you're Next"! BadOne Yes i should have gone with my first instinct i feel really bad about everything. i blame myself every day i didn't call 911, but i really didn't know what to do it's hard when in the situation :/ This is exactly why i am scared to tell anyone about anything, i already blame myself a lot.

pinksparkles12 -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 2:44:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ishtarr quote: ORIGINAL: pinksparkles12 When he beat his other ex slave black and blue after they broke up and she was broken down mentally also... his wife took me into another room because she couldn't stand to watch it, it scared her AND me. What i saw that night was NOT consensual , it was someone beating the fuck out of someone else .. it made me sick to my stomach ... Why on Earth did you stand by and watched somebody non consensually beat the shit out of a woman without calling the cops? Why on Earth did she not press charges? Why on Earth did you text him to talk to him the next day when you saw him supposedly doing things like that? Why on Earth did you initiate a relationship with a man you supposedly know doesn't care about consent? Your either very stupid, or you're simply not telling the whole truth. Your story doesn't add up at all, and keeps getting embellished with more and more details that seem designed to elicit certain responses. i put everything i had into him and all my trust, he manipulated me to the point i didn't know what was right or wrong. He has degrees in psychology and definitely used them, it's like i was brainwashed. i may have been stupid to get into the situation , but at least i got myself out eventually. i'm just trying to learn from the experience .

RedMagic1 -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 2:45:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ishtarr Your either very stupid, or you're simply not telling the whole truth. Or she has no boundaries. I've seen it before. The story might well be true; she's just more broken than she realizes. As you point out, anyone who doesn't take action when they see someone else getting beat up has a serious problem.

pinksparkles12 -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 2:47:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RakeAndCo quote: ORIGINAL: OsideGirl quote: ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet Except that she would have to deal with the police and their bullshit to file a report, and it sounds like that community would take sides. For what? In the absence of a prosecution, how would his next victim even know about it? The OP needs some inner peace, not more emotional battering and frustration. She needs to worry about herself. Reporting it now would come across as a woman scorned thing, and she would likely be treated as such. Who needs it? I'm torn on this. I can understand wanting to report it to make it harder for him to be in the community. But, I also understand that it would put her through the meat grinder and likely go no where. There are no witnesses and so much time has passed that I doubt it would be charged. If a BDSM community in that area prefers it to go away because he's a "valuable" member of then the community is a dump and all the so called "members" of that community need to be outed for the lunatics they are. It is rape, pure and simple, which is a social problem that can only be solved with extreme social and physical consequences to the one that engaged in it. Even if he's not going to be prosecuted, he should be prevented from being able to continue this. I just don't want someone else going through the hell i went through. i don't want someone else being abused, but i feel there is no way to really make that happen, they've made sure of it by telling me to keep quiet.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 2:48:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pinksparkles12 i put everything i had into him and all my trust, he manipulated me to the point i didn't know what was right or wrong. He has degrees in psychology and definitely used them, it's like i was brainwashed. That is responsiblity-avoidance language. You allowed yourself to be manipulated. Period. Maybe the actions were on him. Your not defending someone who was being attacked is on you.

SailingBum -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 2:49:18 PM)
LoL ive heard everything now.... I swear I was "brainwashed" I mean He made me..... WhatFuckingEver BadOne

pinksparkles12 -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 2:50:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 quote: ORIGINAL: Ishtarr Your either very stupid, or you're simply not telling the whole truth. Or she has no boundaries. I've seen it before. The story might well be true; she's just more broken than she realizes. As you point out, anyone who doesn't take action when they see someone else getting beat up has a serious problem. I was already in 6 month relationship wtih him, i'd never seen that part of him, i truly loved him and wanted to believe the best in him and did. He said that she responded to only negative attention so that's what he gave her.... it was really stupid that i did, but i really looked up to and admired the wrong guy. i now know, even if you love someone and look up to them, i have to trust myself and speak out against something that i believe is truly wrong.

pinksparkles12 -> RE: Rape & BDSM community... (3/27/2012 2:51:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 quote: ORIGINAL: pinksparkles12 i put everything i had into him and all my trust, he manipulated me to the point i didn't know what was right or wrong. He has degrees in psychology and definitely used them, it's like i was brainwashed. That is responsiblity-avoidance language. You allowed yourself to be manipulated. Period. Maybe the actions were on him. Your not defending someone who was being attacked is on you. I agree, i should have stopped it. Sorry.

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