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SlavesServeHer -> BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 2:30:00 PM)

Are BDSM contracts a must? Do you think they work? I'm for them as long as they are updated from time to time



SmokeyM -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 2:46:55 PM)

Contracts aren't always a must. Some like to use them as a starting point to know what eachother want and expect. Though mostly if you and your partner are communicating honestly and openly a contract is per optional.
~Smokey



PlayfulOne -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 2:57:44 PM)

We don't have a contract and I would see no need for us to have one.  We have more than enough open communication to keep everything moving along.

K



amayos -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 3:01:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlavesServeHer

Are BDSM contracts a must? Do you think they work? I'm for them as long as they are updated from time to time




The "contract" portion of BDSM contract is a misnomer of sorts, due to its strong legal connotation. I usually prefer to call it an agreement, binding of consensual slavery, or an undertaking, the contents of which show the intent and state of mind between the two parties it addresses.

Are so-called contracts a must? Certainly not. Ultimately, tilling the mind is far more important than signing agreements, as eloquently written they may be. Do such agreements work? Each one of them has for me. I can't speak for others, however. We all do things differently.



Vancouver_cinful -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 3:07:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlavesServeHer

Are BDSM contracts a must? Do you think they work? I'm for them as long as they are updated from time to time


Well, the only contract I have ever had, took me hours and hours to draw up and revise, and the day we were going to put it in place, the dominant chose to push something that he knew wasn't covered in the contract, but that he had verbally promised not to push. (Always a loophole!)

Needless to say, I never signed that contract. It landed up in the recycling bin, and I got accused of not being a real slave. [sm=paddle.gif]

Ah well, his loss.

Personally, I think they might work for some people, but I've yet to really feel the need for one. I think ongoing careful negotiation, and communication, work best for me.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 3:09:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlavesServeHer
Are BDSM contracts a must?

No
quote:

 Do you think they work? I'm for them as long as they are updated from time to time

For the most part it's pretty words that show a person's intentions and feelings towards another.

But, like wedding vows, for people who take it seriously, who actually work it out together, not just slap a few itnernet passages on it and sign it with heart-dotted i's, who take it out and refurbish it every few months, who take the time to really think through the consequences of what they are agreeing to- yes it can be quite useful.

I find most people just like the idea of contracts and end up feeling trapped by them- just like so many like the idea of being collared only to find the situation completely wrong a few months later.

I don't have a use for contracts myself.



hmmmmnbird -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 3:23:33 PM)

quote:

I find most people just like the idea of contracts and end up feeling trapped by them- just like so many like the idea of being collared only to find the situation completely wrong a few months later.


I found exactly the opposite to be true. Only when we had an actual written contract, with a specified date to revisit it, could I let go and submit. (Of course, if you ask Him, I still didn't then, and there's some truth to that).
We both knew it wasn't legally binding, but it was both of us giving our word, and that's binding for us.
Having that date allowed me to stop feeling trapped. I made a commitment, for a specified period of time, and I kept it, knowing that there was an "out" coming.  When it came time to renogiate, I knew slavery wasn't for me, and we have moved on as friends. I think without the contract, we would not have been able to move on without rancor.
In answer to the original question "are they a must";  I don't thing anything is "a must". Each relationship is different.
Bunnie



SlavesServeHer -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 3:48:30 PM)

Lucky & hmmmm,

I totaly agree with you about the contract or as someonelse said here "agreement". It gives me the guide lines at beginning but of course no legal bond.



akisha -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 3:57:00 PM)

I've never used a contract. I've never felt the need for one. I think it's more of a personal choice of the couple or group involved.



ownedgirlie -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 9:17:20 PM)

I have been owned for two years without a contract.  And by a lawyer at that!  lol.  He owns everything.  I begged him to. The notion of a contract never came up.



HarryVanWinkle -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 9:47:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlavesServeHer
Are BDSM contracts a must? Do you think they work? I'm for them as long as they are updated from time to time


I presume you're asking about written contracts.  If so, I would say that not only are they not necessary, but are potentially dangerous.

They're not necessary, because, being unenforceable by law, they carry no more weight than a spoken agreement.

As to the danger, just last Saturday, we had a seminar at Desert Dominion entitled "Prosecution Proofing your Kink" presented by former Deputy District Attorney from Las Vegas who currently works as a Defense Attorney.  One of his major points was that while a BDSM contract cannot be enforced by law, they can be used against you by law. 

An example:  During a particularly noisey scene, the cops are called by a neighbor, thinking domestic abuse is going on.  When the one of the cops sees the well beaten slave, he gets a hair up his ass and arrests the dominant for domestic abuse or sexual assault.  The dominant and the slave have a written BDSM contract that states, among other things, that the slave has no right to remove consent or set limits.  Legally, no person can give up the right to remove consent and legally anytime a submissive attempts to do so and has it ignored, the scene immediately becomes either sexual assault or domestic abuse.  If the police and the prosccuter decide that the slave did, in fact, mean to remove consent, the contract can be used, in court, as evidence that such assault or abuse is common in the relationship.  Which, of course, could help convict the dominant, even if the slave absolutely refuses to testify against him.

I would highly recommend that if one does use a written contract, that one find a kink friendly criminal attorney and have him check it. 



mastersayed -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 10:22:19 PM)

are slave contracts valid in any legal way?



HarryVanWinkle -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 10:27:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mastersayed

are slave contracts valid in any legal way?


No.



mastersayed -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 10:35:12 PM)

then whats the point? oh yeah...the're for people who suck at communicating



Archer -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 10:51:09 PM)

The value in any contract is in the negotiation.
It's true in legal contratcs as well the purpose of a contract is to formalize what has been agreed on. The agreement comes through negotiations.

The withdrawl of consent is something I address specificly in the contract as well.
The slave can withdraw consent with a specific phrase. The utterence of the p[hrase begins an automatic week of discussion and renegotiation, with the potential for ending the relationship.

I use contracts and I also use petitions mostly so that people can consider what they are agreeing to. Funny how when you see it in writting it makes a difference sometimes.
Also the time between negotiations and signing a contract gives time to think about what you are really doing.

In Leather

Archer



MsKatHouston -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 10:59:41 PM)

I like contracts because it sets out some basic ground rules and is a nice ritual.  They do not take the place of continual open communication but I just like them.



HarryVanWinkle -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 11:14:31 PM)

{quick reply}

I am not utterly against the concept of contracts.  I just think people should be very careful about what they say in them.

Most of the contracts I have seen online are garbage, written by somebody with one hand on the keyboard and the other, umm, otherwise engaged.  By which statement, Archer, I do not mean to disparage your contracts.  After all, I haven't read them and from what I've seen of your profile and posts, you seem to have a very good idea of what you're doing.

In the seminar I wrote of above, one of the questions asked was whether having Safe Words or Phrases would help if a cop or prosecuter decided to go after a Dom for abuse or assault.  The answer was, very much so.  Just as a contract specifying the slave's inability to remove consent would help the prosecution make his case for abuse, specifying a Safe Word or Phrase would help  the defense prove that all actions involved were, in fact, consensual.

However, I re-iterate, one must be VERY careful about what's written in any BDSM contract.  Many of the activities of WIITWD are flat out illegal in some jurisdictions.  For instance, it is my understanding that branding a human being is illegal here in Arizona.  Whether or not the brandee consents is irrelevant.  One cannot legally consent to have something illegal done to oneself.  A contract specifying illegal activities would, in the hands of an overzealous cop or prosecuter, help convict a Dominant, even if the so called "victim" swore in court that he consented to the activity.



champagnewishes -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 11:39:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlavesServeHer

Are BDSM contracts a must? 
   Only if a Master insists on one.  


quote:


Do you think they work?
   Only if the persons whose name is reflected by their signature(s) on the bottom of the contract make it work.  Otherwise there as useless as wedding vowes are to a nun..... 



HarryVanWinkle -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/13/2006 11:44:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: champagnewishes
Otherwise there as useless as wedding vowes are to a nun..... 


Or to a serial adulterer.



Quivver -> RE: BDSM Contracts (6/14/2006 3:36:46 AM)

No Contracts for me, EVER.........
I find them comical.  Although I truly believe in well defined rolls
my choice is verbal communication hands down.



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