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Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/10/2012 11:13:54 PM   
metamorfosis


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(According to your definition of the term "masochism".)

Although I lack firsthand experience, I'm going to say "yes". Masochism is deriving pleasure from your own pain. Kids are a pain, and most parents take pleasure in raising them.

What's the difference between masochism and altruism, or are they the same?

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/11/2012 1:26:58 AM   
littlewonder


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Yeah, this is another reason why I don't call myself a masochist. I didn't enjoy raising a child whatsoever and the "pain" of raising her was not good in any way whatsoever for me and another reason why I only had one.

And it definitely wasn't altruistic. I got no joy from it. I'm so glad she's an adult now and I don't have to be really raising her yet. Yeah, I'm still her mom and always will be but you have no idea how happy I am that she's an adult and on her own at her own place away from me.

I hear other parents talk about how joyful it is to raise a child and the first thing I always think is they are either trying to lie to themselves or they are outta their freakin mind!

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/11/2012 3:00:55 AM   
IgorsHand


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I hear other parents talk about how joyful it is to raise a child and the first thing I always think is they are either trying to lie to themselves or they are outta their freakin mind!


I'm sad that my daughter has grown up and is making it in the world herself, I loved having her around. Well I'm not sad she is well adjusted and proving rather successful on her own but I miss her terribly. Right from her first year I used to take her everywhere, parties, work, concerts, art galleries, you name it, she was with me, she was like a pet, always holding on my trouser leg and running at the side of me. But the nice thing is when she comes to vist and something reminds her of our adventures, some smell or some music or other and she says remember the good time we had at such and such a place, where she'd be sat on my shoulders, her little hands gripping my hair or some such thing. I wish I could press a replay button.

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/11/2012 3:04:27 AM   
subbus


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My adult offspring are a royal pain in the ass, and I would stand in front of a train or a pack of wolves to protect them. I LOVE those horrid legal-age brats. I am truly a masochist.

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/11/2012 3:06:51 AM   
Toysinbabeland


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quote:

ORIGINAL: IgorsHand

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I hear other parents talk about how joyful it is to raise a child and the first thing I always think is they are either trying to lie to themselves or they are outta their freakin mind!


I'm sad that my daughter has grown up and is making it in the world herself, I loved having her around. Well I'm not sad she is well adjusted and proving rather successful on her own but I miss her terribly. Right from her first year I used to take her everywhere, parties, work, concerts, art galleries, you name it, she was with me, she was like a pet, always holding on my trouser leg and running at the side of me. But the nice thing is when she comes to vist and something reminds her of our adventures, some smell or some music or other and she says remember the good time we had at such and such a place, where she'd be sat on my shoulders, her little hands gripping my hair or some such thing. I wish I could press a replay button.




That's what grandchildren are for :)

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/11/2012 8:15:11 AM   
FelineFae


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Masochists each have their own taste perference in pain.
i think there's a Sage or one of his reincarnants that would have a great deal to say about suffering and the like.
There's also a guy called Rogue whom sings;

quote:



So bury fear, for fate draws near
And hide the signs of pain
With noble acts, the bravest souls
Endure the heart's remains
Discard regret, that in this debt
A better world is made
That children of a newer day might remember
And avoid our fate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVNjx4k8mWk


Masochism is for one's own benefit, altruism for the better of others. A person can't claim they haven't left their kids by the riverside because they're a good person. They weigh the emotional toll of rearing the kid versus the guilt they have to bare if they abandoned their offspring. The motives for keeping your offspring about will differ on a case by case basis, just as the motives for any relationship will vary in reasoning. i personally feel that most people breed for selfish reasons, and many are masochistic in tone. However, every once in a great while, you find someone that is doing something good for both their kid and mankind.

< Message edited by FelineFae -- 12/11/2012 8:27:21 AM >


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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/11/2012 8:29:42 AM   
TieMeInKnottss


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Yeah, this is another reason why I don't call myself a masochist. I didn't enjoy raising a child whatsoever and the "pain" of raising her was not good in any way whatsoever for me and another reason why I only had one.

And it definitely wasn't altruistic. I got no joy from it. I'm so glad she's an adult now and I don't have to be really raising her yet. Yeah, I'm still her mom and always will be but you have no idea how happy I am that she's an adult and on her own at her own place away from me.

I hear other parents talk about how joyful it is to raise a child and the first thing I always think is they are either trying to lie to themselves or they are outta their freakin mind!



I fully agree with you. Mine are still little and I am surrounded by people telling me to "enjoy it" and "they grow up so fast" & "what a blessing".... I love them to death but I honestly don't think I am a good parent (at least by the definition of where I live)

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/11/2012 8:34:13 AM   
TieMeInKnottss


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FelineFae



Masochism is for one's own benefit, altruism for the better of others. A person can't claim they haven't left their kids by the riverside because they're a good person. They weigh the emotional toll of rearing the kid versus the guilt they have to bare if they abandoned their offspring. The motives for keeping your offspring about will differ on a case by case basis, just as the motives for any relationship will vary in reasoning. i personally feel that most people breed for selfish reasons, and many are masochistic in tone. However, every once in a great while, you find someone that is doing something good for both their kid and mankind.



Well now I can't even use "but I DID go find them when they got lost in the grocery store" as a pat on the back telling me I am a good parent?

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/11/2012 8:38:03 AM   
FelineFae


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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/11/2012 9:26:44 AM   
theshytype


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I think it depends on each individual and how they view parenthood.

I vote more for altruism. I didn't opt to have kids because I selflessly had the desire to improve our species, but nature gave me the desire. Not because I was bored, it's the next logical step, or felt like having an experiment to test my knowledge. I didn't see having children as a gain or a loss, so I don't see it as a selfish act.

I don't find my children to be a pain, or the concept of having children to be a pain, and therefore cannot compare masochism to child-rearing. Raising a child is by no means easy, but most things in life aren't. The joys in raising a child are not in the tantrums, worrying, or any other difficulty. It's the joy in seeing this little person, so much like yourself and yet so different, grow up. I do truly enjoy raising them and any negative aspect is just a difficulty, not a pain.

I believe that it would be as difficult for someone who views children as a pain to understand my views, as it is for me to understand how someone could compare the two.

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/11/2012 11:22:44 AM   
LaTigresse


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The pleasure to pain ratio in parenting my kids has me saying that, in my next life I am sticking with 4 legged furry babies.

I hated being pregnant, I didn't enjoy motherhood. I still have more moments of wtf than ooey gooey marshmallow warm fuzzies. In fact, they are lucky they've given me grands otherwise I's probably change my phone number and 'forget' to give it to them. Also my email, as that seems to be my son's favourite method of communicating.

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/11/2012 4:07:53 PM   
needlesandpins


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i love my son.


i never wanted to be a mum....not ever. i was told i couldn't have kids and was fine with it. but then i fell pregnant and it was a now or never choice. so i took it. i hated being pregnant, i was sick from start to finish, i had heart burn all the time, i suffered with the nerves in my back so i couldn't walk, labour was absolutely horrid and lasted 24hours. you'd think your partner having done it before, and coming from a family with loads of kids would be great and supportive, but he wasn't. i felt isolated, i lost my identity, i didn't know what to do with my son, and i couldn't bond with him.


however, as he grew i loved him. he has struggled through life with one thing after another; speech problems, comprehension problems, heart problems, lumps that he has to check regularly for change incase they turn cancerous, his dad and i splitting up, and much more.


i can't say that i was a good mum to start with, and i've made some bad mistakes with him. now though at 18 he is the most amazing son anyone could wish to have. no matter what life throws at him he deals with it. he's an old head on young shoulders, he's no trouble, he'll do anything for anyone to help, he has his moments of attitude but doesn't hold a grudge, he amazes me constantly with the man he is turning out to be. he is loved by everyone who meets him. kids adore him. he fights with his educational problems to do the best he can. give him a practical problem to solve and he has it hands down. he can read a person, and know what they really feel better than most adults. he's kind, loving, passionate, and so much more.


i gave up everything i wanted to be to have a child i never wanted, and told i could never have. but i wouldn't change it. i wish i could undo my mistakes, but i can't. i have appologised to him for them. i'm told that the young man he is now is my doing, but i'm not so sure. i just know that he's rather wonderful, i love him immencely, i'm so proud of him i could burst, and i wouldn't be without him.


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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/11/2012 7:58:12 PM   
littlewonder


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I love my daughter and would do anything in the world for her but raising her? Yeah.....not fun. Not fun at all. Hated almost every minute of it. The only time I can say I didn't hate it is when she was laughing and having fun. Unfortunately, due to growing up without a dad (he died when she was 3), the smiles and laughs were few and far between and I just felt completely overwhelmed and exhausted.

Master says I'm a wonderful mother but I think he's the only one who feels that way, including my own family and my daughter.


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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/11/2012 8:03:31 PM   
DesFIP


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Delayed gratification, not masochism.

Although with each of them, there were a couple of years that were just rough.

There was also a lot of fun along the way.

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/12/2012 4:23:45 PM   
slaveluci


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Wow, reading some of these responses is chilling. I have to wonder why someone would have a child, let alone several, if they really hated the idea that much. It's really sad because it HAD to have shown through to the child/ren that it was such a misery to raise them.

I have never wanted to be a parent and so I never became one. That is only fair. What right do I have to bring another human being into this world that even I don't want to be here?

luci

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/12/2012 5:19:00 PM   
wayward0sub


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Love love love raising my son...I am one of those mother bear figures who will, and am currently doing so, stand in front of the wolves for my son (to borrow someone else's turn of phrase)...yes it is hard as hell and painful sometimes, but the joy and just outright fun I get from from it are well worth it.

I never wanted to be a mother either...it just happened suddenly and I found that I was born for it. I was always that ambitious woman that was on a fast track to anything but motherhood...in fact my extended family thought I didn't have a nurturing bone in my body. I was seriously ill during the pregnancy and ended up losing 30 pounds rather than gaining weight. I hated every minute of it. So I completely understand people when they don't want children and don't understand how it could be worth it.

But then he was born and I forgot what life before him was like.

Masochistic? I don't know. I don't enjoy the pain that goes with it. Altruistic? Nope. I ain't doing this for anyone but me and him. But is the pain (that I don't enjoy) worth it? Absolutely.

Wayward

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/12/2012 8:16:44 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci

Wow, reading some of these responses is chilling. I have to wonder why someone would have a child, let alone several, if they really hated the idea that much. It's really sad because it HAD to have shown through to the child/ren that it was such a misery to raise them.

I have never wanted to be a parent and so I never became one. That is only fair. What right do I have to bring another human being into this world that even I don't want to be here?

luci


Luci, it's not that I don't love my kids. Not that I don't enjoy them.......much of the time. I have to admit that, right now, the last few weeks, I could cheerfully sent my 33 yo son on a one way trip to Mars. My daughter, we do have our struggles.

I was 16 and 18 when my kids were created. I didn't really have the opportunity to consider whether or not I wanted to be a mother. I just was. I went from being a freshman in high school to pregnant and married. I did not have a choice. It happened. And to be honest, it wasn't that big of a stretch, I had been raising my 5 younger siblings for years already. It was just two more. Much of the time I had a house full of kids. I drove either a huge boat of a Chevy Impala station wagon or a Ford Econoline van.....because that is what I could fit the whole crew into. After my daughter was born I had a tubal ligation. I was 18 and the doctor did not want to do it. I had to sign a stack of forms, promising to never sue.

No, being a mother was not easy and much of the time it was not fun. But I guaranfuckintee that, not only my two kids, but also my 5 siblings, know they are loved and wanted. We have our moments, like most families, but we are family. We love one another. Of that there is no doubt.

I simply didn't have a burning need to be a mother. Being pregnant was misery. I was young and unprepared for motherhood when it was dumped upon me. I didn't get the opportunity to go to college or decide what I wanted to be when I grew up. It was decided for me when I got pregnant one night, the summer of 1978. I've simply played the cards I got. My kids seem to be quite happy with the way the game has gone. My daughter especially. She and I are very close.

As for my kids potentially being somehow scarred because being a mother was, at times, pure hell..........somehow I doubt it. The very idea makes me chuckle. Most kids are selfish in that, they are not focused on what their parents are struggling with. They are focused on whatever is important to them. If their friend is mad at them, if that cute boy likes them, if they can have the expensive Air Jordan sneakers they really want, etc etc etc....... I am pretty sure neither of my kids have any issues of the sort you seem so determined to be in horror of.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 12/12/2012 8:21:42 PM >


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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/12/2012 8:53:19 PM   
littlewonder


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Luci, it's not that I don't love my kids. Not that I don't enjoy them.......much of the time. I have to admit that, right now, the last few weeks, I could cheerfully sent my 33 yo son on a one way trip to Mars. My daughter, we do have our struggles.

I was 16 and 18 when my kids were created. I didn't really have the opportunity to consider whether or not I wanted to be a mother. I just was. I went from being a freshman in high school to pregnant and married. I did not have a choice. It happened. And to be honest, it wasn't that big of a stretch, I had been raising my 5 younger siblings for years already. It was just two more. Much of the time I had a house full of kids. I drove either a huge boat of a Chevy Impala station wagon or a Ford Econoline van.....because that is what I could fit the whole crew into. After my daughter was born I had a tubal ligation. I was 18 and the doctor did not want to do it. I had to sign a stack of forms, promising to never sue.

No, being a mother was not easy and much of the time it was not fun. But I guaranfuckintee that, not only my two kids, but also my 5 siblings, know they are loved and wanted. We have our moments, like most families, but we are family. We love one another. Of that there is no doubt.

I simply didn't have a burning need to be a mother. Being pregnant was misery. I was young and unprepared for motherhood when it was dumped upon me. I didn't get the opportunity to go to college or decide what I wanted to be when I grew up. It was decided for me when I got pregnant one night, the summer of 1978. I've simply played the cards I got. My kids seem to be quite happy with the way the game has gone. My daughter especially. She and I are very close.

As for my kids potentially being somehow scarred because being a mother was, at times, pure hell..........somehow I doubt it. The very idea makes me chuckle. Most kids are selfish in that, they are not focused on what their parents are struggling with. They are focused on whatever is important to them. If their friend is mad at them, if that cute boy likes them, if they can have the expensive Air Jordan sneakers they really want, etc etc etc....... I am pretty sure neither of my kids have any issues of the sort you seem so determined to be in horror of.


Basically my story is similar to LaTigresse's.

I was married at 18. I had a child 9 months later. We were married, we had sex. I got pregnant. Thankfully he wanted children. I wasn't so keen but well...it happens. At that point I knew I wasn't going to be going to college or working in the type of career I had hoped to go into or do the things I always wanted to do (which I'm now finally getting the chance to do without her). I had my tubes tied a year after my husband died. I was 24. The doc didn't want to but I finally convinced him. There is not one day that goes by where I regret it.

Yeah, me and my daughter have our issues. There are times she hates my guts. There are times when I just want to be as far away from her as possible or I will feel like giving her a good slap upside the head! But all in all, she knows I love her and even though she doesn't say it, I know she loves me even though she thinks I'm crazy and old fashioned and lame. As Latigresse said, she really doesn't spend much time even thinking about mom or our issues or love for each other. She's too busy going to school, working, taking care of her own house, spending time with her live in boyfriend, their friends, taking care of her pets, etc....





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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/12/2012 8:58:11 PM   
theshytype


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I sincerely doubt that many, if any at all, of the people on this thread are implying that they don't love their child(ren).
Parenting is simply more desirable to others, that's all. Some encounter harder times.

Of course the kids will recognize the difficulties, but I believe that as long as they are loved then it can actually make them stronger adults. Not harm them.

I've had it fairly easy. There's been some rough times, but nothing permanent. If I had to go through what some others have endured, I'd possibly say that I wouldn't want to relive years of agony either. <<< That could be considered masochistic if one wanted to go through it again.

I complain about my kids to other parents. Any parent I've ever met does the same. I don't think this is new. I'm pretty sure my parents still complain about me.

Anyway, no matter how perfect a parent tries to be, we're all going to screw them up somehow.

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RE: Is child rearing an act of masochism? - 12/12/2012 9:00:14 PM   
NuevaVida


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LaT I'm glad you clarified, and I appreciate that you did, thank you.

I was kind of wondering about this thread, too, to be honest. I'm the opposite of Luci - all my life I wanted to have kids. I had names chosen, had thought out what kind of parent I wanted to be, had planned my life around raising children.

But it was not to be. That was one, very serious heartache for me. I went through quite the grieving process over not having kids. So from my own perspective, it becomes very difficult for me to hear people who DID get to experience motherhood actually diss motherhood. Maybe it's a jealousy thing. Maybe it's resentment (I know that's in the mix). Maybe it's like what my mom says - "Don't miss what you never had."

And yet, in the last few years I've not only watched the Mister deal with his daughter but have actively participated in her recent development, and I think, "Fuck me sideways, I'm sooooo glad I didn't have kids!!"

So, I've had just a teeny tiny glimpse of what parents go through, and it helps relieve me of the sadness of not having had kids myself. But it's still hard to see mothers complain about being mothers. I guess there's still that little ache in my heart...

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