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Lessons of online. - 9/21/2013 9:45:34 AM   
lilcracker


Posts: 243
Joined: 4/14/2012
Status: offline 		I find myself wanting to derail another thread so I started a new one....and although I rarely get personal I wanted to. This is not a thread to out anyone or disrespect another...it's just my thoughts and how I felt and I hope that others may get a glimpse of what it was like for me and perhaps others may chime in with what they experienced positive or negative.

Years ago...going back over 10 years...MSN had chat rooms and it was there...I met him. (Nope I was not a newbie then either...my first partner I lived with for 7 years but he was more of a top than a Dom.) He seemed like just the type of Dom I was looking for and I messaged him. That was the start...and honestly when we began chatting...it seemed as if I had known the man forever. It was several weeks before we took it to phone and when I talked to him...oh dear god...I felt like kneeling right there on a pay phone in the middle of a grocery store. Shortly after we began speaking...he said his job was taking him out of the country. But we kept in touch...constant touch. We spoke by phone, email and instant messenger. I began to love....the feelings were very deep and very profound. I tasked...almost everything in my life...was inspired by him and for him.

With his prodding, I began therapy for my childhood sexual abuse...it was one of the most difficult things I ever did and sometimes I hated him for it because it was like opening a can of worms I could not close...but now looking back it was well worth it despite the difficult journey. I landed a really good job...I moved from a tiny apartment to a three bedroom house...I was able to furnish the entire house with brand new furniture...I bought a car...then upgraded to a newer truck...I returned to college full time...so I was juggling a full time job...full time college...and therapy several times a week...I even made deans list every semester.

I was doing well...with his instruction...and I loved I loved hard...I felt collared although there was nothing formal about it (he did not believe in online collars---the velcro ones)...he often said he owned me and I was his property...I was his it seemed but I often wondered if he was ever mine..it was blissful but not always. Red flags popped up but I refused to see them...no that is not true...I saw them...I questioned...he lied...became furious that I questioned him and I in turn believed because I wanted to ...but those red flags nagged me. Those flags nagged me and there were plenty of times...I could have put those naggings behind me because I could have proved he was lying but chose to not betray him and just believe him because I did not want what I had grown used to...to end. I knew if I pushed it I would lose him...and I was not ready for that. He was so like a drug...I was so addicted to him....and I had not hit bottom yet.

We finally met and I have to say...the experience still makes me smile...it was the most magical experience I have ever felt in my entire life. Imagine talking to someone almost daily for years and finally seeing that person for real. Four days...four wonderful days...I have tossed every single picture from that meeting except ONE. My daughter has that and keeps it only because of the magic of my smile...so I understand why she keeps it. My eyes smiled in that picture...I was so happy during those four magical days.


You would think that two people would grow closer after a magical visit...but I guess my tears at the airport when we said goodbye...knew. We had plans to continue on the journey we started. I was moving there in a year to attend college in his home state...I would have my own apartment but we would be close enough to visit often. Of course it did not happen...there were obstacles for me that had nothing to do with him...but I was determined to overcome the challenges in the end though a disagreement between us forced me to give in and not go. With that disagreement, I outed him on a lie...and he knew I could have outed him all along but chose not to do so. He was livid when I outed him because there was no way for him to explain it away.

You would think I'd have just moved on after that...but I didn't. I spiraled...life got very difficult for me then. I blamed myself for his lie...because he blamed me for it...turned the tables and made it my fault. I believed I was at fault...and I almost took my own life over that shit....I was still in therapy...not fully on track...and I found myself in a bad place. I had lost my job, the company was in a financial dilemma and I lost my job...and right afterwards the owner sold the company. I had given up my rented home to save money for my move and was staying with friends...I had sold off and or given away almost everything I owned so I could move. I'd completed my associates degree here..and now was not going to continue onwards. But most of all I missed him...I was lost without him in my life at least in some capacity.


But I got my shit together....I found a job, an apartment, returned to college in my home state and carried on but felt empty. It was like I was just functioning. I tried to find another person in my life but they weren't him so it never went far, I'd talk to someone online but...it ended at talking. A few months passed and he got over his anger and messaged me. I was so happy...I had him back at least somewhat. But...I kept my head...I knew that I must never expect anything and I remembered all the red flags. We talked daily again...but kept it at a friendship. Oh there were I love you's exchanged...but I was never hopeful...sometimes he would slip and say he 'owned' me say I was 'His'. But I kept my head...and it seemed to more I kept my head...the more I kept moving from him the more he tried to reel me in closer. Finally he said he was coming to visit me. I had doubts...I had real doubt because nothing he had ever said...or suggested turned out...there were numerous times he was coming to visit...numerous times he suggested me come to visit him and with the exception of one time (and I pushed that one) none of them happened. The day of his visit...I had some hope...I was making the bed with clean sheets and thinking...this day...he will lay his head on my pillow and when he leaves...I won't change the sheets right away...I will keep his scent around awhile...and he called. He called from his cell phone...he told me he had been trying to reach me for days...calling my cell phone...my phone had not been working properly for months and he had not called it in months...only my house phone. Although it was not working I could still see missed calls...there were none. He said he had been arrested and was in jail. And he was calling from his cell phone!!!! He said he was innocent so the police took pity on him and allowed him to call with his cell phone...not once...according to him but several times?!? His final words to me...were that I was not a friend...that I never loved him...because I did not believe him.

I must admit...he was what I would have called a TRUE DOM. He said all the right things...he talked the talk and quite honestly I have never in my life had a scene with a better sadist...the man was truly skilled in using almost any implement he put his hands on. During those four days we played a lot. He could give a long distance punishment...a punishment that hurt way worse than any beating and he never had to come online and ask what sort of punishment to give...he knew what hurt. He kept a journal and advised me to do so...I did not...I hated the idea. I wish I had of. He said he kept every email I ever wrote him...I believe he did...but advised me not to keep ones he sent me. I deleted them at first and then began to save them when the red flags began to appear. I wish I had kept them all....because he once told me that you can find lies when meeting online by keeping a detailed journal of things and having emails as back up. Yes he was skilled at more than being a sadist...he was skilled at lying. He was telling me in the very beginning he was a liar and telling me exactly how to do it skillfully.

I walked away from this shaken but with a wealth of knowledge. I learned very quickly the difference between a TRUE Dom and reality. When I see a profile that makes me think of him....I think TRUE DOM.

I learned that for me vanilla is like ice cream....I can eat just ice cream...and ice cream is the foundation for a sundae....without the ice cream you have just toppings and it's not the same. For me I need vanilla...sometimes...I like a sundae but it sucks if it is just the toppings because the foundation is missing. Vanilla and all that comes with it is my foundation...my reality.

I learned there is a difference between trusting because you need to...and trusting because you are being told the truth.

I learned that no one is perfect...as a submissive we are sort of seen as imperfect because we need a Dom to inspire us to perfection...with that said...there is sort of an unsaid belief that Dom's are perfect...we think it although never outright say it. I learned no one is perfect and to never ever have the expectation that anyone even a Dom is.

I learned empathy...learned not to judge because I had years of experience and still it wasn't enough. And through this post I learned humiliation and embarrassment because I feel it now.

Finally I learned...my reality is when I can use every single one of my senses in the relationship.

Thoughts? Experiences?


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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/21/2013 10:17:31 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		Thank you so much for sharing. I know that was very personal, but it was also moving.

I'm so sorry that you went through that, but hopefully it will prove as a cautionary tale for those that we tell not to get too invested in someone that you're talking to online.

I did long distance once and it wasn't as long or as heart wrenching as what you went through. He traveled a lot and I'm in the travel industry, so we saw each other twice a month. After I moved to California, it became painfully clear that the excitement of seeing each other only twice a month had blinded us to the little things about each other that drove us crazy. The relationship ended 4 months after moving into the same county with each other.

I don't regret the experience because he was my first. He's a great guy and we're still friends. But, it taught me that I did not want to be in a relationship where I only saw the guy twice a month on a weekend.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/21/2013 10:32:22 AM   
lilcracker


Posts: 243
Joined: 4/14/2012
Status: offline 		Thanks Oside...I appreciate your input....you are much respected by me.

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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/21/2013 10:40:55 AM   
hlen5


Posts: 5890
Joined: 3/2/2008
Status: offline 		I was moved also.You wrote it very well.

_____________________________



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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/21/2013 1:38:43 PM   
lilcracker


Posts: 243
Joined: 4/14/2012
Status: offline 		Thank you hlen...

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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/21/2013 4:22:44 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		I love your ice cream vs. toppings analogy, very apt as all the trimmings seem exciting but without the foundation, it's just fantasy fulfillment.

I empathize with you about being with a liar. Mine was not long distance, but it went on for years. Like you, I saw red flags the day I met him, but remained blinded by lust and enabled him to destroy my trust. That was my fault and I own it.

What I disagree with is when you say we need Doms to inspire us to perfection and that there is a belief that Doms are perfect.

I don't strive for perfection because that is an impossible state. You can only be the best you there is.

Doms are not perfect because they are human.

I am sorry you went through that but as you said, it was a lesson and if we stop learning, we stop growing.

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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/22/2013 3:45:25 AM   
orgasmdenial12


Posts: 613
Joined: 9/18/2012
Status: offline 		That was really beautifully written, I loved reading it.

I often wonder who love benefits - does it benefit the person we love? What if they don't deserve it? What if they don't love us? But really I know, love benefits the person who loves. Even to remember a time we are in love - it just glows, no matter what came after. To love - to be able to love - it means your heart still works.

It would be easy for me to jump on the title of this post and write about my online experiences. It would be easy for me to write about those msn chatrooms back in 2001, and my first Dom who was married and cheating, and how he was a bastard and how it was the most amazing time of my life. But I've been over that too many times.

Sometimes, it isn't whether or not they are online, sometimes it's just because they are liars, and they can't live any other way. In 2009 I started a relationship online with a gorgeous young Dom, we met within weeks. He used to drive a 400 mile return trip to come and see me. I still ask myself now - why would he bother, if he didn't love me?

We had the most intensely beautiful affair of my life. I can't think of that summer without remembering how golden it was, how perfect, how safe I felt driving in his car. There were one or two niggles, little things, we talked about them. I remember in February the next year, what started it was - I wanted to write a poem about him, but I had, in my teenage years, written all these poems about this boy who didn't love me, and never loved me, and I didn't want to be embarrassed like that again. I'm a sneaky, devious kind of a person when I want to be, but on this occasion it was lucky that I was. I signed into his email account....

I've never, never seen such cheating and lying. I didn't know it was possible to cheat to that level. I didn't know you could cyber and message hundreds and hundreds of women while you were dating one woman. I didn't know that the so-called respectable women of the scene would lower themselves to being someone else's dirty secret. Dommes, subs, switches, not one of them with any morals.

The thing about heartbreak is - it's directly proportional to the love you felt for them. And I really loved him, and it really broke my heart. I couldn't stand it, so I forgave him. We were together three years after that. He always lied - once a cheat, always a cheat. I don't think he's capable of living an honest life, where he is only with one woman. In a way I pity him, because it must be rubbish never being happy with one woman and always wondering if you will be found out. I still wonder why he bothered - why not break up with me and play the field? As soon as I dumped him, he immediately started dating another woman. I don't think he can stand to be alone.

Online is tricky, yes, and it's easy to cheat. But it's not just being online that makes them cheat, it's being a liar that makes them lie, online just makes it easier.

I since met someone new, online, and we see each other sometimes a lot, and sometimes a little. I wondered if I would have trust issues, and check up on him, but actually his honesty and faithfulness is so obvious, I have no urge at all. Honest people are still honest people, even online :-)

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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/22/2013 3:47:34 AM   
lilcracker


Posts: 243
Joined: 4/14/2012
Status: offline
quote:

"What I disagree with is when you say we need Doms to inspire us to perfection and that there is a belief that Doms are perfect."


Thank you sexyred. I quote the above...because I do think we are on the same page...but I doubt conveyed the message I wanted to accurately.
quote:

I learned that no one is perfect...as a submissive we are sort of seen as imperfect because we need a Dom to inspire us to perfection...with that said...there is sort of an unsaid belief that Dom's are perfect...we think it although never outright say it. I learned no one is perfect and to never ever have the expectation that anyone even a Dom is.


First I do not think anyone is perfect or it should be expected. However, I do see a trend among some Dom's (I hesitate to include Domme's because my interaction with them is limited therefore I have not see this trend) to find some imperfection in a submissive and set about fixing it. Quitting smoking and losing weight top my list..although I have seen the weight loss one more often in threads both here and other places. I did both...I quit smoking for several years and lost 70 pounds. The weight loss stuck...the quitting smoking did not.


LOL now sexyred...I must further humiliate myself and admit...I was a follower of CastleRealm. I read and believed. I am happy to say that there are those who give it a thumbs down but some of the lessons found there are still alive.

I HAVE seen numerous times here and other places..."The Dominant's Creed." I am pretty sure most are aware of it..if not google it. A quote from that creed reads..."A Dominant will accept no flaw; nothing less than perfection from their student."

True it does not say a Dominant needs to be perfect or is perfect...but if he is expecting perfection from his student one might assume that he has mastered it himself.


Again, I don't believe ANYONE is perfect nor should one strive for it nor expect it. I do believe this
quote:

I don't strive for perfection because that is an impossible state. You can only be the best you there is.
and this
quote:

Doms are not perfect because they are human.
. So yeah I think we are on the same page. I was trying to point out...there are times we think otherwise though we may not outright say it. That was one of the lessons I had to learn.

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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/22/2013 4:35:45 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


Posts: 6562
Joined: 3/22/2011
From: The t'aint of the Midwest -- Indiana
Status: offline 		One of the downsides to the internet is that it makes it easy for people to be deceitful. Cell phones, helpful as they are, only add to this.

It sounds to me like you had some good things with this guy. I'm sure you ignored some red flags, and of course lack of honesty has to be a deal breaker.

Most of us have had to learn some harsh lessons along those lines, and I'm sorry it had to happen to you.

You seem to come out of it stronger and more aware, which is about all you can ask for after a failed relationship.

_____________________________



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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/22/2013 5:30:53 AM   
lilcracker


Posts: 243
Joined: 4/14/2012
Status: offline 		Yes Chatte...I have no regrets...but of course I never have. I have always been one who has never wanted to change the past and just treated everything good or bad as a positive learning experience. It's enhanced when I am in a place where I feel comfort, because I know without my past, I never would have gotten to where I am at. Even being abused as a child, as horrible as it was, aided me in being who I am now and gave me tremendous strength.

And yes, the experience was good in many ways. It keeps me from hating him. The lies however were not the deal breaker, my well being was. I think it was the first time, I put myself before him. Even now, although my partner rules the roost, I will never put him before myself. Little things yes, like there is one cookie left, I'd give it up but often times he wants me to have it so we split it. As I said to him in the very beginning, "I will do anything you ask within reason." If it causes me harm mentally or physically, and he is not willing to put my safety first, I owe it to myself to make sure I get out of harms way.

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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/22/2013 6:49:26 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

I empathize with you about being with a liar. Mine was not long distance, but it went on for years. Like you, I saw red flags the day I met him, but remained blinded by lust and enabled him to destroy my trust. That was my fault and I own it.


Ya, in my relationship that started out LD, I too saw red flags and ignored them due to lust. I even caught him in lies which he later dismissed as saying he was a very private person and when we first met I "didn't have the need to know." But it was more than that. And I KNEW he was minimizing his drinking.

Ay yi yi yi, I was so stupid!

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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/22/2013 6:50:36 AM   
kalikshama


Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

Yes Chatte...I have no regrets...but of course I never have. I have always been one who has never wanted to change the past and just treated everything good or bad as a positive learning experience. It's enhanced when I am in a place where I feel comfort, because I know without my past, I never would have gotten to where I am at.


Me too!

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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/22/2013 7:05:36 AM   
lilcracker


Posts: 243
Joined: 4/14/2012
Status: offline 		Agreed kalikshama, that I am a private person thing was one of those things I was told.

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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/22/2013 7:12:23 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		Mine wanted to know everything about me but would yell and say no questions when it came to him, especially about his feelings. I now know he doesn't have normal feelings.

He was more open early on, but I did notice that whenever my friends or family tried to talk to him or even just asked about his job, he became hostile and antisocial.

Stupid me kept saying to everyone, oh he isn't like that with me. Ha. That came later.

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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/22/2013 11:24:04 AM   
jola37


Posts: 433
Joined: 7/8/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lilcracker

I learned that for me vanilla is like ice cream....I can eat just ice cream...and ice cream is the foundation for a sundae....without the ice cream you have just toppings and it's not the same. For me I need vanilla...sometimes...I like a sundae but it sucks if it is just the toppings because the foundation is missing.





Lovely way of putting it :-)

Thanks for sharing your experience there lilcracker, it was a moving, informative and generous.

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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/22/2013 1:06:05 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		The OP's post confirms my belief that online only is not for me.

I have to have contact - skin to skin.

And it seems to be so much easier to lie to someone when you aren't in front of them.

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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/22/2013 1:23:20 PM   
tsatske


Posts: 2037
Joined: 3/9/2007
From: Louisville, KY
Status: offline 		kiwi,
it's important to watch for those red flags, too. Not being willing to answer questions or talk about feelings means you aren't a match for me.

I have done LDR in the past, when I was younger, but I was more willing to relocate then. I do not consider it right for me any longer.

_____________________________

“If you never did you should. These things are fun and fun is good”
~Dr. Seuss quote

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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/22/2013 6:34:02 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

I was moved also.You wrote it very well.


Me too......


In my opinion relationships that develop online and are long distance, are no less valid than others. They are also just as painful if they dont work out. Been there, done that, no regrets but it did hurt when it ended.


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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/22/2013 7:38:05 PM   
brunettelace


Posts: 9
Joined: 9/21/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lilcracker

I learned that for me vanilla is like ice cream....I can eat just ice cream...and ice cream is the foundation for a sundae....without the ice cream you have just toppings and it's not the same. For me I need vanilla...sometimes...I like a sundae but it sucks if it is just the toppings because the foundation is missing. Vanilla and all that comes with it is my foundation...my reality.

I learned that no one is perfect...as a submissive we are sort of seen as imperfect because we need a Dom to inspire us to perfection...with that said...there is sort of an unsaid belief that Dom's are perfect...we think it although never outright say it. I learned no one is perfect and to never ever have the expectation that anyone even a Dom is.




As a Dominatrix, I can tell you that we dominants need our subs, just as much, if not more than you need us. Maybe that's usually unspoken too...

Of course, as you said, no one is perfect. And just because someone takes the place as the instigator/decision maker in certain aspects of a relationship, does not mean that they should need you less, or that they can treat you the way this man treated you. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

I believe that the role of the dominant is to cherish the sub, and be grateful for everything that is given. And reciprocate by being fair, paying good attention to the subs needs/wants, and above all honoring that trust. Trusting someone the way a Sub can....that's harder than anything a Dom has to do, imo.

Taking it is harder than dishing it out. The Sub is the strong one. And that is a delicious irony.

Speaking of delicious. Nice vanilla ice cream metaphor. Very true.

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RE: Lessons of online. - 9/23/2013 7:55:21 AM   
AllisonWilder


Posts: 296
Joined: 10/8/2012
Status: offline 		I have nothing of substance to add that hasn't already been said, but I wanted to say that the OP was a fantastic post that resonates with me. Thank you for sharing that!

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Profile   Post #: 20
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