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maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 5:16:27 AM   
masoTVgirl


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I am maso but not submissive, is it possible?
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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 5:21:49 AM   
MstrssPassion


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Masochist & submissive is not the same.

A masochist is one that enjoys pain & often responds to the pain in some manner of orgasmic delight.

To be submissive... it is best described as a mindset toward one's partner.

You do not need to be masochist in order to be submissive & being masochistic does not necessarily make one a submissive. Same thing applies to being sadistic. Being such does not make one a dominant& a dominant does not have to be sadistic.

Sadism & masochism has fine ties to dominance & submission but SM is not a required practice/attribute of D/s.

< Message edited by MstrssPassion -- 7/2/2006 5:29:33 AM >


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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 5:56:44 AM   
JohnWarren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: masoTVgirl

I am maso but not submissive, is it possible?


Not just possible, but not at all uncommon.  Think of the two as interpenetrating domains.  You get three subsets:submissive-not masochistic/submissive-masochistic/not submissive - masochistic.

I know of more than one person who is dominant and masochistic.

Enjoy what you like and don't let anyone put you into a convenient box.

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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 6:12:42 AM   
MsSonnetMarwood


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It's very common to be maso but not submissive, and frankly, you're ahead of the curve if you both recognize there's a difference, and what best suites you.

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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 6:36:38 AM   
masoTVgirl


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Nice news, Many people told me a am not maso  when i am not submissive, had problems in relationship with mistres. But we eill se

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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 6:55:04 AM   
masoTVgirl


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what oabout being in normal love or friend relations, and having bdsm in weekends, or nights. just erotic bdsm not in relationship?

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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 7:38:50 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


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The common falacy perpetrated these days (especially online, because in 20+ years I haven't seen much of it in off line real life) is that if you aren't involved in a power exchange dynamic, you're not involved with BDSM.
 
I'm very much a maso - only just barely submissive - and avoid the complication of relationships like the plague.  They tend to put a damper on my enjoyment by creating expectations of me.
 
Much like John mentioned - it's not only possible, it's not at all uncommon. (Regardless of what many online will attempt to tell you.)  Personally, I consider it a form of attempted oneupsmanship to start pulling this "you're JUST a bedroom subbie/vanilla with kink (insert put down of choice here) if you don't (insert kink or power exchange of choice Here)."  It is a means for the Speaker to prop up their own ego and make themselves feel somehow superior.  They likely have self confidence or self worth issues which need to be internally addressed if their ego is so dependant upon everyone falling in line with what it is that They do.

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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 7:51:16 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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quote:

ORIGINAL: masoTVgirl

what oabout being in normal love or friend relations, and having bdsm in weekends, or nights. just erotic bdsm not in relationship?

YOu can have whatever you want- it just might take a bit more looking to find.

If you can imagine it- people out there are doing it, and very happy with it.


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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 7:54:32 AM   
JessieMe


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In scene terminology you would be what is called a bottom. In other words.. you enjoy the pain play without the "submissive mindset". You enjoy playing with those who Top you instead of domming you.. or perhaps you liked to be dommed without submitting... also a possibility LOL...

Thats what I love about this lifestyle.. so many possibilities...<grin>

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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 8:04:01 AM   
lanwolf


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Being both is very posible and both can and do bring the same joy and fulfillment to my life. Being on the reciving end of a heavy beating or serving my Owner privatly or at a public fuction both are who and what i am.

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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 8:16:13 AM   
puella


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Hello masoTVgirl,

Sure it is possible, submissive and masochistic are two very different things. 

The word masochist  is derived from  the Austrian author, Leopold von Sacher-Masoch.  In his book Venus im Peltz, he details a story of a man named Sevarin who is rather obsessed with a woman named Wanda.  As the story unfolds his need and desire for more and more pain and degradation becomes the dominant theme in the story line.

He was her 'slave' however, but the term Masochist was coined by Richard Freiherr von Krafft-Ebing in his book, Psychopathia Sexualis in 1886, detailing sexual 'perversity.


God I am such a nerd, sorry that was probably way to much trivia for ya, but there was a definite separation by both Masoch and Krafft-Ebing between the desire for submission and the desire for pain and degradation in human sexuality.

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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 8:21:00 AM   
MstrssPassion


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JessieMe

In scene terminology you would be what is called a bottom. In other words.. you enjoy the pain play without the "submissive mindset". You enjoy playing with those who Top you instead of domming you.. or perhaps you liked to be dommed without submitting... also a possibility LOL...

Thats what I love about this lifestyle.. so many possibilities...<grin>


Yes I agree, using the term bottom might be a better choice for the OP

On the flip-side, there are MANY who will refer to the explanation the OP offered as:

quote:

ORIGINAL: masoTVgirl

what oabout being in normal love or friend relations, and having bdsm in weekends, or nights. just erotic bdsm not in relationship?

 
in a not so flattering way...

Examples:
do-me sub/bottom
bedroom sub/bottom
player
week-end warrior
role player

& the list could go on.

I do admire the fact that you are being completely honest about this & that you are at least telling others that you are primarily interested in just seeking play rather than  some type of tried & true die hard sub of all subs. Too often people think that just because they want to engage in kinky activities they are dominant or submissive.

Honesty is the best policy & being upfront is the best approach.

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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 9:00:05 AM   
Taylore


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quote:

ORIGINAL: masoTVgirl

I am maso but not submissive, is it possible?

Of course it is possible. In addition a person can also be submissiv/slave and not be a masochist.

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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 10:47:45 AM   
Slipstreme


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Im a Dominant sadomasochist, who just recently discovered that I enjoyed sadism as much as masochism. In my case, masochism is very far removed from my mindset, being that I am Dominant. A good beating is insanely liberating, and I wouldn't change that for the world. Personally, I have no problem with people who are into S&M and not D/s. I know a few whose only ties to BDSM is the pain play, and they are just as deep and varied as those involved in D/s. One is not better than the other, just different, and they never have to go together, although they often do. Many D/s relationships do evolve into Dominant/ sadist, submissive/ masochist, but also many use pain as punishment only, so into S&M, they are not.

To the OP: If you are not comfortable with submitting outside of what is required to get you pain, then don't let the idea of submission hold you down. However, you might want to make it clear to those you get involved with that you are into the pain only and that you won't take kindly to them controlling you, so that you can avoid problems that might develop if they expect more, something I let my Tops know from the beginning.   



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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 10:51:42 AM   
Caretakr


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People are obsessed with feeling they need to link sm to d/s these days. all you need to do is to find some tops that just like the sensation play-as far as the rest,let them choose if they can deal with your need to NOT submit.

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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 11:07:35 AM   
OsideGirl


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I know a masochist that wants you to beat her, f**k her and then go home. She doesn't want to be your submissive or slave, doesn't want to be trained by you.

I know a D/s couple that never engages in BDSM.

The two frequently intersect, but they don't have to. There are as many different variations as there are people in the scene.

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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 11:10:17 AM   
BitaTruble


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quote:

ORIGINAL: masoTVgirl

I am maso but not submissive, is it possible?


I'm a sadist who's not a dominant.

Most combinations are being done by someone, somewhere. It's all good.

Celeste

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Rock, paper, scissors."

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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 11:34:58 AM   
ClassAct2006


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Of course you can be. It's quite common. Don't worry about it.
I'm submissive and not masochistic (it just hurts...ouch). Or sometimes I put not very masochistic. I'd never beat myself for pleasure but I'd have pleasure in pleasing someone dominant who enjoys that but it's as someone put better than I can here, a mindset, the submissiveness, not a physical feeling whereas masochism is just that.

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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 11:51:00 AM   
hizgeorgiapeach


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

People are obsessed with feeling they need to link sm to d/s these days. all you need to do is to find some tops that just like the sensation play-as far as the rest,let them choose if they can deal with your need to NOT submit.


The reverse could be said just as easily, and is just as true - people seem to be obessed with feeling they need to link ds to SM.
 
There has never been a specific connection between power dynamics and Kink, with the possible exception that many people seem to enjoy both.  That, though, is where the connection between them ends.
 
(Oh.. and OSide.... I Completely understand your maso buddy!!  Scratch my itches, I'll scratch yours, then Get The Fuq Out and let me live my life until we have a mutual itch to scratch again! )

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RE: maso means submissive? - 7/2/2006 12:00:35 PM   
mp072004


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HELL YES, it's possible.

Think of it this way. There are two sets of identifiers, power and sensation: dominant/submissive, sadistic/masochistic (or top/bottom, if you want to talk about non-pain sensation--either word works to distinguish power from sensation). One can have a "neutral" position on either, too, which is like an abstention--if you're neutral on the power axis, you neither want a dominant role nor a submissive role, for example. You might like to inflict pain without involving power at all, which would make you a neutral sadist. You could also be neutral on the pain axis, and enjoy controlling someone without inflicting or receiving pain. If you're a neutral on both, you probably should rethink whether you like BDSM.

Still unclear? Let's do an item by item.

Dominant sadist: "normal". Agent of power, giver of sensation.
Dominant neutral: Agent of power, doesn't want to deal with pain or sensation. These types tend to have an emphasis on service. They may not call what they do BDSM.
Dominant masochist: Agent of power, receiver of sensation. Dominant masochists get hit and they direct how they get hit. Topping a dominant masochist looks something like giving a massage. "Harder. No, use the paddle now. A little to the left."
Submissive sadist: Wants to obey and give sensation. Often a good match for a dominant masochist. Submissive sadists sometimes identify as service tops.
Submissive neutral: Wants to obey, no sensation or pain. Like dominant neutrals, submissive neutrals may not call what they do BDSM. In the case of a female submissive neutral with a male dominant neutral, the couple may describe their relationship as "traditional" or "surrendered wife".
Submissive masochist: "normal". Agent of power, receiver of sensation.
Neutral sadist: Likes giving sensation to an equal. Pain, no power.
Neutral masochist: Likes receiving sensation from an equal.
Neutral neutral: vanilla.

Switches can switch on either or both axes. A switch might not switch power, but might switch pain--so, a person could steadily take the submissive role, but sometimes bottom and sometimes top. It seems less common to me for a person to switch in power but not sensation, though it would certainly be possible.

There are further nuances, of course--the above ventures to offer a more precise classification system that doesn't conflate inequal power and sadomasochism.

MasoTVgirl, I don't know whether you're a dominant masochist or a neutral masochist. Given your later post, you might identify as a submissive in scenes but not outside, which is a wholly separate, and much bigger, category than dominant or neutral masochists. That's for you to determine. I would suggest you figure out what exactly you want, then when you talk to prospective partners, outline it concisely and clearly. Epithets like do-me-bottom could be appropriate if you were to profess your undying desire to submit to your partner when it actually means that you want to bottom in the way you want. If you say clearly that you want to bottom in the way you want, and a prospective partner objects, you're just not compatible, but I can't see that your prospective partner should be upset or feel misled. If you're active in a BDSM community, especially, figure out a short, single-sentence description of how you work to introduce yourself when asked about your preferred role. The fewer jargon words, the better. Example. "I'm looking to receive pain without engaging in obedience or subjection to my partner."

Monica

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