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Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 5:32:18 AM

juliaoceania

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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This is a spin off on mistoferin's thread about painsluts, I didn't want to hijack it, but someone else on the thread brought up and issue that I have thought about myself in the past. The question concerns pain tolerance and the label masochist. I have thought about the fact that I have a high pain tolerance. In some ways my pain threshold can be low, and in other ways it can be high... it depends on the day, the dominant, the type of play and the implement used, and the part of the body being tormented. The variables change and my threshold changes.

I have thought that comparing two individuals with two different pain thresholds to determine level of masochism just seems wrongheaded to me. It is the fact that people enjoy pain inflicted on them at all that makes them masochistic. I have wondered what pain tolerance has to do with whether someone is a real "painslut" or if they just have "masochistic tendencies". Someone that lacks nipple sensitivity, for example, isn't going to feel the pain like someone that has sensitive nipples. You can do the same action to both and the one with sensitive nipples is actually taking more pain than the other individual, yet one is a pain slut and the other isn't?

The other thread about the newbie misjudging her pain tolerance is about being a newbie I am sure.. but at the same time someone that has been scening with one dom for years may have had the same problem because of judging pain tolerance. I believe you can be extremely sensitive to pain and still be a masochist, because you enjoy sensations that are painful, it isn't what is inflicted on you, it is what your brain is interpreting as pleasure.. what do you all think?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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Post #: 1

RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 6:01:10 AM

mistoferin

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I am a masochist, I can derive pleasure from pain. But that is the only part of masochism that is a given. I have an abnormally high pain tolerance...and I am also a wimp. While that may seem like a contradiction, both of those statements are true.

My pain tolerance is dependent upon many variables. The level of trust I have in the Dominant, the type of play, the "weapons", where my head is at, the energy created, what I had to eat that day, have I slept well, what body part we are concentrating on.....and on..and on.

When I am about to scene with someone and they ask me if I am a painslut, my answer is nope, I'm a wimp. I answer that way because I never know until I am in pain how I am going to respond to it. It may be one of those days when my body will still be craving more when the Dominants arm is ready to fall off....or it may be one of those days when light is right.

Most masochists that I have met also respond differently to different kinds of pain. I myself, am a thudder. I can take a lot of heavy deep impact play. Stingy, surfacy pain pisses me off generally and I don't get enjoyment from it on my end.

Then of course there is good pain and bad pain. While I may be able to take a heavy beating, if I stub my toe or burn my finger I am the world's biggest wimp.

Too often I have seen people in this lifestyle, even experienced people, who have no real understanding of masochism. They think that if you are a masochist you will be able to take and derive pleasure from anything that gets dished out. That is just simply not true. I have also seen submissives ridiculed for wimping out...aw come on...I thought you were a painslut. This, in my opinion, is not something that a Dominant should ever do.

_____________________________

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~erin~

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(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 2

RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 6:32:28 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Too often I have seen people in this lifestyle, even experienced people, who have no real understanding of masochism. They think that if you are a masochist you will be able to take and derive pleasure from anything that gets dished out. That is just simply not true. I have also seen submissives ridiculed for wimping out...aw come on...I thought you were a painslut. This, in my opinion, is not something that a Dominant should ever do.

That is something that I would not be able to take from a dominant, egging me on to take more pain than I felt able. It is part of the reason I do not think I could ever play casually, because I would lack trust in the person inflicting pain on me. I hope I never see a submissive ridiculed for her inability to continue a scene. I guess if we play pubically enough I may very well witness this unfortunately.

I have never viewed other people involved with WIITWD or witnessed these sorts of interactions. I was very lucky with both dominants that have inflicted pain on me, the first one gauging my pain tolerance on purpose for the limits I had slowly, and my Daddy for how he isn't interested in inflicting pain except to see me in subspace..and since this is his goal it isn't about how much I can take, its about getting my headspace adjusted. I have a high pain tolerance too in some ways, in fact I shrug off most pain. If I complain about a pain I have my family takes it seriously because I am known to allow things to go too far.

My question is how does one help a newbie if they see they are in trouble with public play and a top is pushing them too far, is there anything that can be done? I know I will just have to sit by and witness stuff like this and bite my tongue no matter what, but I am wondering if anyone ever steps in and stops this sort of ridiculing or pushing a newbie too far.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 3

RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 7:21:29 AM

mstrjx

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Julia, Erin,

Let me expand on what I said in Erin's post. I'll try not to repeat too much.

When I started, 15 years ago, I was fortunate that there was a group that held Saturday afternoon seminars and demonstrations, followed by a large play party that evening. So, I was able to see and learn quite a bit before I had a partner to play with.

As the years went on, I picked up a ton of different toys: crops, cats, floggers, whips, paddles, canes, etc., with a large variety of textures. So, if I want to play with thuddy goodies, I can, stingies, yes. Some things light, some things quite evil. I'm not much into ego, but it is safe to say that I'm relatively expert when it comes to painplay of this sort. I know well enough to know that if I were in a public setting I wouldn't just lend out toys because I can't expect that the temporary wielder would know about about the tool to use it effectively.

I have played publicly, and in a few rare cases with people I didn't know (asked to perform at functions). I might speak to them to get some sense of what they liked, in other cases I probably had at least seen that person bottoming for another, so I could get a sense that way.

Having said all that, I think that 'masochism' and 'pain slut' (exciting though they might sound) are really just an adjunct of two specific people playing. There does need to be that familiarity, that trust, that makes the event magical. Yes, there are good sessions and bad sessions. And a good top should be able to know a bad session before safe words are used. I believe in safe words if a partner thinks they are useful, but don't expect to hear them and stop before it gets that far. Maybe I'm more empathetic than others; it's certainly not that I won't play hard if the person involved likes that.

I've had partners who didn't like pain play at all, and then some of the toys grew more dust than at other times, and that's all right too.

But if so, crying and screaming are not safe words. It's just a sign. I'm paying too much attention to know if it's really too far.

One last thing before I go. I don't recall seeing any mention in the other thread about aftercare. Of course it's after the fact, but it's more than just a psychological tool for the submissive to 'come down'. It's vital information that is helpful for the next time (or if lucky, the next 1000 times). It's mandatory, every time.

Thanks for letting me have the floor. I'll be quiet now. I hate that whole ego thing.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 4

RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 8:43:39 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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I've decided to go with two types of pain tolerances.

You have your "pain is pleasure" tolerance. I have a pretty much zero level on this one. Pain isn't pleasure for me. Masochists tend to have a high "pain is pleasure" tolerance- but it can still vary greatly from one person to another. Some people tend to think that just because you do not have a "pain is pleasure" tolerance that you don't take pain at all- this certainly isn't the case.

The second is the "painful but not destructive" pain tolerance. I've got a medium/high tolerance in this level, which can be adjusted based on endurance/type of pain. People sometimes think because I endure pain so well sometimes that I somehow must have a "pain is pleasure" tolerance. For me the reality is simply that I've learned how to process and tolerate pain to a certain level through submission- it's still ALL pain to me.

A masochist can also endure scenes in which they have crossed their "pain is pleasure" boundary but not over their "pain isn't damaging" boundary- however I've seen more than a handful of masochists get upset because they aren't getting the pain they want in the way they want it. Further proof that masochism isn't at all the same as submission.

_____________________________

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Post #: 5

RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 8:44:55 AM

hizgeorgiapeach

Posts: 1672
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Erin, are you SURE that we're not twins who were seperated at birth?

My pain tolerance is unreal at times. But if some of the factors are off - especially where my mind happens to be at the time, or if a top is concentrating on a particular area where I'm more sensative (can't deal with a lot of nipple play even on my "best" days) - then I'm going to be calling a halt to things much sooner than I would otherwise.

I laughed when I saw your comment about being the world's biggest wimp when you stub your toe, etc. You'll have to share the trophy on that one. Toothache? I'm a crying whining pissy bundle of "don't touch me just make it go 'Wayyyyyyyyy." Stubbed toe? Paper cut? You'd think someone had shot me. Put me under the flogger or crop, give me genitorture that isn't centered on the breasts, pour wax on me and then paddle it off? You'd think I have no nerve endings most days.

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RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 8:47:08 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
My question is how does one help a newbie if they see they are in trouble with public play and a top is pushing them too far, is there anything that can be done? I know I will just have to sit by and witness stuff like this and bite my tongue no matter what, but I am wondering if anyone ever steps in and stops this sort of ridiculing or pushing a newbie too far.

Only if there's a safeword. If you are friends with them and it's NOT during the scene itself, you could feel free to discuss it with them and give suggestions or advice. But scene space is pretty sacred. And certainly if you are not good friends with them, you shouldn't even be considering anything as you can not know what their dynamic is or what exactly the headspace at play is- shrieking in pain and begging things to stop and being called a wimp sometimes is just a really hot submission/humiliation scene.

I agree- masochism and pain play is very misunderstood and the psychology behind it even more cloudy. But interfering with anothers relationship is always a risky move, and one not to be taken lightly.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 7

RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 9:55:44 AM

Sparr0w

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Joined: 7/11/2006
From: Indiana
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I do not consider myself a masochist or a pain slut. Yet, there are some activities that I thoroughly enjoy. I love the feel of a cane; yet can not handle the pain associated with clamps. The sensation from being burned makes me smile; yet, put a needle in me and I am screaming to stop. Personally, for myself, I believe its psychological; all in my head, but I have yet to try and analyze why.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

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RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 10:24:58 AM

Tamerofwild1s

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I have been a viewer of subs and slaves from the perspective of doling out the pain . most women love a good pussy flogging but also for most women they can not take much pain on thier breasts .... I have seen some girls who will take a paddling till my arm falls off yet others who want to stop after 5 swats .. so I think it a pain slut is someone personally that craves pain .. a masochist is someone who wants the pain wether it's pleasure or not they just want it and thrive from it.

speaking of whimps ... as a Sadist if I stub my toe . I am cursing in tongues . if I burn myself something is going flying with the language of a sailor following it ..... certain pains are designed to be tolerable ... others aren't. I don't know too many who will walk up to a couch and kick the leg with a bare toe to simply get off from it .. maybe those are the ones I define as a pain junkie

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A building get torched. All that is left is ashes. I used to think that it is true about everything - family, friends, feelings - but now I know that sometimes if love proves real, and two people are meant to be together, nothing can keep them apart ~

(in reply to Sparr0w)

Post #: 9

RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 10:30:05 AM

juliaoceania

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
My question is how does one help a newbie if they see they are in trouble with public play and a top is pushing them too far, is there anything that can be done? I know I will just have to sit by and witness stuff like this and bite my tongue no matter what, but I am wondering if anyone ever steps in and stops this sort of ridiculing or pushing a newbie too far.

Only if there's a safeword. If you are friends with them and it's NOT during the scene itself, you could feel free to discuss it with them and give suggestions or advice. But scene space is pretty sacred. And certainly if you are not good friends with them, you shouldn't even be considering anything as you can not know what their dynamic is or what exactly the headspace at play is- shrieking in pain and begging things to stop and being called a wimp sometimes is just a really hot submission/humiliation scene.

I agree- masochism and pain play is very misunderstood and the psychology behind it even more cloudy. But interfering with anothers relationship is always a risky move, and one not to be taken lightly.

I agree, and one should never interfere I know... I may have to leave if my discomfort level is high but that does not translate into their discomfort level is high. I realize the rules of such and wouldn't break into someone else's scene.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

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RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 10:42:18 AM

firstsub

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If at a play party or in a public play space at all there is probably someone who is in charge...
be it the owner of the house or a desingnated Dungeon Master. Anyone can ask them to take a look at the scene and see what they think, if things are being pushed too far.

_____________________________

A submissive needs to be contolled, owed, used. Pleasing and serving her Master. This will bring balance and meaning to her life. Discipline will keep her in focus. Master has only to look her way.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 11

RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 3:55:44 PM

Arpig

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I have not read the thread, because I wanted to reply without being influenced by what others might have said.
A masochist is somebody who derives pleasure (generally sexual pleasure, but not neccisarily so) from pain. PERIOD!
It has nothing to do with how much pain they can withstand, or the types of pain, it simply means that they derive enjoyment from pain. If the pain is too intense, then they may not get pleasure from it, therefore the girl who enjoys a nice spanking is just as much a masochist as the hardcore painslut who wants to be caned for hours.
They are both masochists, one just needs a lot more stimulus to reach the desired end.

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RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 3:58:49 PM

juliaoceania

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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I agree arpig, although I know many many will disagree...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 13

RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 4:48:34 PM

kyraofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Too often I have seen people in this lifestyle, even experienced people, who have no real understanding of masochism. They think that if you are a masochist you will be able to take and derive pleasure from anything that gets dished out. That is just simply not true. I have also seen submissives ridiculed for wimping out...aw come on...I thought you were a painslut. This, in my opinion, is not something that a Dominant should ever do.

That is something that I would not be able to take from a dominant, egging me on to take more pain than I felt able. It is part of the reason I do not think I could ever play casually, because I would lack trust in the person inflicting pain on me. I hope I never see a submissive ridiculed for her inability to continue a scene. I guess if we play pubically enough I may very well witness this unfortunately.

This really depends on the motivations of the people involved in the play. An outsider looking in will not understand what is driving the ones who are playing. Frequently my Lord eggs me on, mocks me and pushes me to what I think I can endure and then pushes me past that point. He knows that once he pushes me to a certain point, I will lash out and that is the reaction he is wanting. He pushes me to fight back and with each play he has to push me farther to get to that point. People who watch are sometimes disturbed and have trouble handling the play, but it is the kind of play that both of us enjoy. So it really depends on the motivation.

quote:

My question is how does one help a newbie if they see they are in trouble with public play and a top is pushing them too far, is there anything that can be done? I know I will just have to sit by and witness stuff like this and bite my tongue no matter what, but I am wondering if anyone ever steps in and stops this sort of ridiculing or pushing a newbie too far.

But is the top pushing them too far or is it just perceived it that way? I am a relative newbie and I would much rather prefer that someone come talk to me after the play if they are disturbed by it. If they do that they will learn how thouroughly I have enjoyed it. I would not be very happy at all if anyone were to step in. It has almost happened once but alandra was there to let them know that this was normal behavior for he and I. In some ways I think I am sensitive to the negative perceptions that people have a play. I think this perception can often be dispelled if they were to talk to the bottom afterwards.

So rather than stepping in, I think talking to the bottom when they are ready is the best way to handle it.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 14

RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 5:20:11 PM

NurseKitty

Posts: 33
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Syracuse, New York
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

My question is how does one help a newbie if they see they are in trouble with public play and a top is pushing them too far, is there anything that can be done? I know I will just have to sit by and witness stuff like this and bite my tongue no matter what, but I am wondering if anyone ever steps in and stops this sort of ridiculing or pushing a newbie too far.

My impression is that at most organized play parties, there's a 'dungeon master' whose responsibility it is to oversee the various scene(s) taking place for just this reason. I've been cautioned to never directly interrupt a scene but go to the DM if there's something going on I have concerns about. Just my 2 cents.

_____________________________

Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before. ~ Mae West

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Post #: 15

RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 5:47:51 PM

mstrj69

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The other question of course is how experienced and able to read the bottom is the top? If he too is new, someone might need to step in and say slow down or even stop. If you know he is experienced and good at reading the bottoms he plays with, then leave them alone or mention it to whomever is in control. I would also ask what you consider public play? In some of the larger cities or venues yes there are dungeon masters while in some of the smaller cities without public dungeons it is just a get together at someone's house where there may not be anyone around trained so to know when to say stop and interrupt a scene.

(in reply to NurseKitty)

Post #: 16

RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 7:14:59 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

I have not read the thread, because I wanted to reply without being influenced by what others might have said.
A masochist is somebody who derives pleasure (generally sexual pleasure, but not neccisarily so) from pain. PERIOD!
It has nothing to do with how much pain they can withstand, or the types of pain, it simply means that they derive enjoyment from pain. If the pain is too intense, then they may not get pleasure from it, therefore the girl who enjoys a nice spanking is just as much a masochist as the hardcore painslut who wants to be caned for hours.
They are both masochists, one just needs a lot more stimulus to reach the desired end.

Agreed. Period.

I'm a masochist. I enjoy pain. Not -all- pain, but almost all pain. When it comes to some things, my tollerance is amazing. You could flog me all day and I'd be asking for more. But take a cane to me and I bruise, bleed, and beg you to stop in -minutes-. This doesn't make me less of a masochist.

I liked the way LA said it. My "pain as pleasure" tollerance is very high, but my overall pain tollerance is low. I cant' take much pain, but what I can take I enjoy. That makes me a painslut inmy book. I get off on pain.

Too, though, I'm insecure about masochism. I think of myself as a wimp no matter what I can -actually- take. Heh. The last person I played with was really surprised, and after we were done he told me "I thought you were a wimp!" Apparantly I kept going way longer than he thought I should have. Who knows.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to Arpig)

Post #: 17

RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 8:32:17 PM

Jasmyn

Posts: 1234
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From: New Zealand
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Bite my clit, pinch my nipple ...and I'll cum like a train ... thankfully I have a couple of well trained boys who know exactly how to service their Mistress with lashings of tongue and teeth. Pain has very little to do with d/s style of dominance and submission.

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

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Post #: 18

RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/26/2006 8:34:50 PM

Jasmyn

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From: New Zealand
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ps Arpig agreed

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quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.

Visit My Website

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Post #: 19

RE: Pain Tolerance And Masochism - 7/27/2006 12:12:38 AM

ownedgirlie

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What an interesting OP, Julia. Frankly I hate pain yet crave pain, so what does that make me - - weird?! (don't answer that) My pain tolerance is low, although it has grown quite a bit in the past year. But while receiving a whipping or any other sort of pain, I find myself wanting it to just stop stop stop...and yet when he stops, I want more more more. Go figure.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 20

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