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An interesting legal question - 7/22/2017 7:28:48 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-angry-twitter-spree-declares-complete-power-pardon-144011489.html

We agree that the President can issue pardons and they do so.
Could a sitting President pardon himself?
If so, why didn't Johnson or Nixon or Slick Willie do it?

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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/22/2017 7:42:45 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Unless I'm mistaken you cannot pardon an impeachment... so if he was dumb enough to try and pardon himself he would be impeached... then after impeachment he could be tried for his crimes.

Butch

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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/22/2017 7:49:22 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		But, could he be tried for something he had already pardoned himself for?

I think this is some interesting logic. Maybe a lawyer will show up. A few used to post around here.

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Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/22/2017 7:55:49 PM   
heavyblinker


Posts: 3623
Status: offline 		It's telling that this is even being discussed.

Trump is basically Caligula, so it's not like he wouldn't try, and Trump voters would support him... but it's highly unlikely that congress or the intelligence community would let him get away with it.

The senate has already voted to prevent him from reversing the sanctions on Russia... if he tried it, they would have to act.

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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/22/2017 8:03:28 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I'm pretty sure the courts will rule that a President cannot pardon himself... but myself i would settle with just impeaching him and getting someone competent in the office.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/22/2017 8:19:38 PM   
MasterG2kTR


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From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		wouldn't that be considered a conflict of interest?

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but three rights make a left
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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/22/2017 9:17:09 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-angry-twitter-spree-declares-complete-power-pardon-144011489.html

We agree that the President can issue pardons and they do so.
Could a sitting President pardon himself?
If so, why didn't Johnson or Nixon or Slick Willie do it?


How can you pardon someone when they haven't even been convicted?

He is acting more and more everyday like a Dictator... I guess anyone that thought he would "grow" into his position and start acting Presidential should have figured out by now that it ain't gonna happen with this ranting nutbar...

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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/22/2017 9:22:12 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

But, could he be tried for something he had already pardoned himself for?

I think this is some interesting logic. Maybe a lawyer will show up. A few used to post around here.

There was a widespread opinion That Clinton could. He didn't because he knew that he could shoot someone on national tv and no Dem Senator would vote for impeachment.

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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/22/2017 9:24:54 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


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Status: offline 		If it comes to this, he could pardon his family, then step down and hope Pence steps up and pardons him.

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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/22/2017 9:39:26 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Believe it or not the President can pardon someone precluding prosecution.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/22/2017 9:40:32 PM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterG2kTR

wouldn't that be considered a conflict of interest?


More like an imperial act.

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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/22/2017 10:16:46 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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I don't see any convictions to pardon.

T^T

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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/22/2017 10:32:21 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/23/2017 12:12:23 AM   
RottenJohnny


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Joined: 5/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
We agree that the President can issue pardons and they do so.
Could a sitting President pardon himself?
If so, why didn't Johnson or Nixon or Slick Willie do it?

Really? No Google search? You're always so happy to give everyone else shit about it. Why don't you try living by your own standards?

About 18,400,000 results (0.57 seconds)
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/jul/21/4-questions-about-presidential-pardon-power/

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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/23/2017 12:58:12 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
We agree that the President can issue pardons and they do so.
Could a sitting President pardon himself?
If so, why didn't Johnson or Nixon or Slick Willie do it?

Really? No Google search? You're always so happy to give everyone else shit about it. Why don't you trCongrees, contrary to what we were told during y living by your own standards?

About 18,400,000 results (0.57 seconds)
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/jul/21/4-questions-about-presidential-pardon-power/


Congress can impeach for what ever they want to. By the same token they can pretend that felonies
such as perjury do not count.


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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/23/2017 1:44:06 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		According to the legal experts quoted on SBS TV tonight, a person has to "accept their guilt in a crime against the United States" before they can be pardoned. This may have interesting implications. How many of Trump's inner circle would be prepared to publicly admit their guilt prior to accepting a pardon? Not only would they be admitting their guilt they would also be agreeing that their crimes were "against the USA", not some political opponent or other. Who knows what other implications would arise? One thing for sure is the GOP brand would suffer immeasurable damage.

The fact that pardons are being discussed by the orange disaster tells us that he is concerned that sooner or later charges will be laid, and that he as good reason to believe that convictions will ensue. Unless these preconditions are met, the issue of pardons simply wouldn't be part of any consideration. So there is some contingency planning that assumes charges being laid and convictions ensuing.

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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/23/2017 4:11:09 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		This article might be helpful in clarifying some of the legal issues ....

"Hypothetically speaking, if the president self-pardoned but prosecutions against him went ahead anyway, the decision on whether the self-pardon was valid would be left to the courts. Any ruling on the matter would be likely to be appealed to the supreme court.
Significantly, the presidential power to pardon as laid out by the constitution applies only to federal crimes, meaning that states may keep up the prosecution of a defendant even after a presidential pardon.
Self-pardon by Trump, in other words – to wade once more onto surely hypothetical terrain – would not fully remove a hazard of prosecution.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/22/pardon-donald-trump-russia-investigation-legal-experts

So even if Trump pardons himself in full, it won't remove all risk of prosecution if he and/or any of his minions have broken State laws. And it's far from clear that it would protect him from prosecution for any Federal crimes he and/or his minions may have committed. So it's not a "Get Out of Jail Free, Do Not Pass Go" card at all.

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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/23/2017 4:25:55 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
We agree that the President can issue pardons and they do so.
Could a sitting President pardon himself?
If so, why didn't Johnson or Nixon or Slick Willie do it?

Really? No Google search? You're always so happy to give everyone else shit about it. Why don't you try living by your own standards?

About 18,400,000 results (0.57 seconds)
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/jul/21/4-questions-about-presidential-pardon-power/

The google search leads to conflicting opinions depending upon the leanings of the author. This is why I said "An interesting question" This is an invitation to discussion.

Maybe you should spend more time reading with comprehension and less time in meaningless trolling.

_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/23/2017 4:42:28 AM   
WhoreMods


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Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
How can you pardon someone when they haven't even been convicted?

The same way Ford did, at a guess: didn't he give Nixon a sort of papal dispensation of a pardon that didn't just cover the stuff Nixon had resigned to avoid trial over (none of which he was ever impeached, never mind convicted over due to resigning before the investigation got that far so he was pardoned before being convicted) but also for anything else dodgy or illegal he'd been up to as president that hadn't been uncovered as yet?

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On the level and looking for a square deal.

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RE: An interesting legal question - 7/23/2017 5:05:14 AM   
WickedsDesire


Posts: 9362
Joined: 11/4/2015
Status: offline 		Trump Declares himself the Almighty


Comrade fruit loops is fuking nuts.

Incidentally he cant pardon himself if impeachment preceding begin - maybe hurry-up on that one.
[/quote]


ORIGINAL: WickedsDesire

Under Article II, Section 2, Clause 1, presidents have "power to grant reprieves and pardons for offences against the United States, except in cases of impeachment". (and federal crimes)

He can pardon his Family, aides (and possibly himself) before any guilt is established.

They are not going to get him for him fudging (lying like fuk) his tax returns unless there is Russian money - still, he can always declare himself a religion - well he is that, effectively a religious zeolot whose supporters blindly follow his iconoclastic teachings - the Embodiment of the one called Trump.

Remind me of his Job title again and who he serves?

_____________________________________________

If he is thinking of doing it then you need to ask yourself why
If he is thinking of doing it then types on his shitter account he is thinking of doing it then you really need to ask yourself why

For his colluding sprogs and aides - yup

For himself yes- but I doubt he would get away with it. Legal opinion is split rolls eyeballs





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We SAtuRaTe yOur aLPHA brain WAveS, ThIs is nOt A DrEAm The wiZaRd of Oz, shoES, CaLcuLUs, DECorAtiNG, FrIDGE SProcKeTs, be VeRy sCareDed – SLoBbers,We DeEManDErs Sloowee DAnCiNG, SmOOches – whisper whisper & CaAkEE

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