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RE: On Service... - 9/3/2006 5:53:48 PM   
sublizzie


Posts: 1252
Joined: 5/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

"To whom much is given, much is expected."
Susan, that's the one!
That's what I say to myself everytime I cut a check to a charity.
I'm just glad that I'm "able" to do so and not on the other end of that check.
My mother used to tell us that all the time. Catholic school.


Luke 12:48 "From everyone to whom much has been given, much will be required; and from the one to whom much as been entrusted, even more will be demanded." NRSV

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: On Service... - 9/3/2006 5:55:56 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

The real question here is..........

Exactly what are you serving?


Me, in one context.

Our relationship, in a wider context.

Herself in a third context.

Short answers, because your question is pretty short and open to a lot of interpretation.  What is your point, exactly?

FHky


_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: On Service... - 9/3/2006 5:58:38 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

It is always a pleasure to know that I'm not alone in my thoughts.  But you know, I wonder if perhaps a lot of dominants are somewhat intimidated by this idea; that perhaps they don't feel as if they could live up to the role.



I honestly believe that for some it is both intimidating and somewhat unsettling too. I don't think the problem lies in living up to the role. But more in the fact that they have an individual within their presence that is intelligent and equates service in ways that they have never conceived, conceptualized, or are willing to understand. In other words, it is clearly a challenge.

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: On Service... - 9/3/2006 6:05:57 PM   
nefertari


Posts: 425
Joined: 7/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

The real question here is..........

Exactly what are you serving?


I disagree.  The question is, who are you serving?

Excellent post, losttreasure.  Thank you, thank you, thank you.

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: On Service... - 9/3/2006 6:22:57 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

...But honestly - I'd rather worship a human I can really feel honored to know, who occasionally screws up...



Susan, I like your analogy regarding worship.  You know, most people don't really think about what worship is.  It sounds all very ominous but in essence, it's very simple.

When my waking moments are filled with thoughts of him... when every decision I make is prefaced with consideration of his preferences... when my actions are influenced by how he will react... when my desires are shaped to match his own... I am worshipping him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

P.S. FirmHandKy is a great guy. You really did well for yourself (and so did he)!



*grins*  He is.  Thank you!

< Message edited by losttreasure -- 9/3/2006 7:07:55 PM >

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: On Service... - 9/3/2006 6:23:58 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sublizzie

Luke 12:48 "From everyone to whom much has been given, much will be required; and from the one to whom much as been entrusted, even more will be demanded." NRSV


Thank you, sublizzie.  You beat me to it. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

I honestly believe that for some it is both intimidating and somewhat unsettling too. I don't think the problem lies in living up to the role. But more in the fact that they have an individual within their presence that is intelligent and equates service in ways that they have never conceived, conceptualized, or are willing to understand. In other words, it is clearly a challenge.

porcelaine


FHky is right... you are good.    Thank you for such a wonderful explanation.

quote:

ORIGINAL: nefertari

I disagree.  The question is, who are you serving?

Excellent post, losttreasure.  Thank you, thank you, thank you.



*laughs*  You are quite welcome, nefertari.  And I think FHky corrected him, too.

Edited because I again forgot to combine my responses. 


< Message edited by losttreasure -- 9/3/2006 6:29:43 PM >

(in reply to sublizzie)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: On Service... - 9/3/2006 7:07:12 PM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline 		The question was serious,what is the motivation?

(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: On Service... - 9/3/2006 7:11:06 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

The question was serious,what is the motivation?


Isn't the motivation clear to you?  Or are you being obtuse for a reason?

What is anyone motivation's for anything?  Maslov's hierarchy?

Why does the sun shine?

FHky

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 9/3/2006 7:13:29 PM >

_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: On Service... - 9/3/2006 9:42:42 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

The question was serious,what is the motivation?


And FHky answered you quite seriously.

Unpopular as the idea might be, in addition to serving him and our relationship, I am serving myself.  After all, if I wasn't initially motivated to serve myself, I wouldn't be serving him and there would be no relationship.

You see... I don't buy into the idea of "selfless service".

For me, service is a means to achieve an end.  Despite all the controversy over “it isn’t all about you”, when all is said and done, it really is "all about me".  At least from my perspective. 

Every action in life provides a positive reward for the doer, and all actions are motivated by “selfish” desires.  Every decision I make... every function I perform, I do so because in the end it serves some need or desire of mine.  Even those activities that might otherwise be considered involuntary, serve me... submitting to a rapist at knifepoint would be horrendous, but the decision to relent serves my hope to survive.

And ultimately, by choosing to submit to and serve FHky, that decision serves the well of emotions that he stirs within me.  His pleasure in me and my service only strengthens and perpetuates that service.  My delight in his pleasure deepens my desire to serve and to meet his desires both completely and abundantly.

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: On Service... - 9/3/2006 9:45:30 PM   
Homestead


Posts: 1005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

The question was serious,what is the motivation?


And FHky answered you quite seriously.

Unpopular as the idea might be, in addition to serving him and our relationship, I am serving myself.  After all, if I wasn't initially motivated to serve myself, I wouldn't be serving him and there would be no relationship.

You see... I don't buy into the idea of "selfless service".

For me, service is a means to achieve an end.  Despite all the controversy over “it isn’t all about you”, when all is said and done, it really is "all about me".  At least from my perspective. 

Every action in life provides a positive reward for the doer, and all actions are motivated by “selfish” desires.  Every decision I make... every function I perform, I do so because in the end it serves some need or desire of mine.  Even those activities that might otherwise be considered involuntary, serve me... submitting to a rapist at knifepoint would be horrendous, but the decision to relent serves my hope to survive.

And ultimately, by choosing to submit to and serve FHky, that decision serves the well of emotions that he stirs within me.  His pleasure in me and my service only strengthens and perpetuates that service.  My delight in his pleasure deepens my desire to serve and to meet his desires both completely and abundantly.



Thank you, this is what I wanted.

Not a snippy dismissal.

< Message edited by Homestead -- 9/3/2006 9:58:00 PM >

(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: On Service... - 9/3/2006 10:12:44 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

Thank you, this is what I wanted.



You are welcome.

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: On Service... - 9/3/2006 10:39:46 PM   
FirmhandKY


Posts: 8948
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Homestead

Thank you, this is what I wanted.

Not a snippy dismissal.


Begin hijack:

Sometimes, a snippy dismissal is all a question deserves.

What, you have a problem clarifying your original question, when I asked?  I don't particularly like being dismissed myself, Homestead.

Or perhaps your agenda, point of view and/or position wouldn't be best served by me answering your question?

End hijack

FHky



_____________________________

Some people are just idiots.

(in reply to Homestead)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: On Service... - 9/3/2006 11:15:29 PM   
porcelaine


Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure

FHky is right... you are good.    Thank you for such a wonderful explanation.



You are far too kind dear lady. Thank you both.

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: On Service... - 9/4/2006 7:16:27 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline 		losttreasure....  I have always found the concept of "want or need to serve" very much putting the cart before the horse.  Yes I do agreee that many Dominant's and even submissives express this concept that submissives have this universal desire to please or need to serve.  I find it strange that such a motivation should be restricted to submissives in general.  I find that I have a desire to be pleasing to my slaves and in manner ... I serve their interests by having the authority to guide and decide things in their life.    In essense, I do not agree that a desire to please or the act of serving is neccessarily a submissive one.  In could actually be motivated by compassion, kindness, love and whole array of other factors.

I also wouldn't say that submissives alone are inspired to give their fealty .... .  Should it be equated that Dominants need not hold loyalty, obligation, honor, devotion, faithfulness to their submissives.  In my opinion, There is should be a mutal fealty between Dominant and submissive alike.  The question thou is what inspires and earns that fealty.  That in itself is a rather subjective answer for each one of us.

I would also suggest that once a commitment of fealty exists between Dominant and submissive that we are motivate and have a desire and sometimes even a need to please and serve each other.  However, this pleasure and service comes in a different form depending on one's specific orientation and preferences.  As the Master... My service to my slaves is to justily and effectively use the authority that I have.  To manage their interests.  when I see my girls grow and enhance themselves because of my choices and their efforts I am both proud and pleased.

I have never seen service or a desire to please as specific to submissive.  In fact, the only aspects that I have found to be consistent and applicable towards submission is Obedience and the only aspect for Dominance has been Command.  The only question has been to what degree within a specific relationship will Command and Obedience occur.  But before all this can occur... we must both be inspired in a manner that earns our fealty to each other.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: On Service... - 9/4/2006 9:19:29 PM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

...Yes I do agreee that many Dominant's and even submissives express this concept that submissives have this universal desire to please or need to serve.  I find it strange that such a motivation should be restricted to submissives in general ... In essense, I do not agree that a desire to please or the act of serving is neccessarily a submissive one...


I couldn't agree more, KoM.  Yes, the need to serve and the desire to please are not exlusively submissive traits.  They are human traits, and the last I checked, dominants are still human.

Well... most of them, anyway. 

quote:

I also wouldn't say that submissives alone are inspired to give their fealty .... .  Should it be equated that Dominants need not hold loyalty, obligation, honor, devotion, faithfulness to their submissives.  In my opinion, There is should be a mutal fealty between Dominant and submissive alike.


I shouldn't be surprised to see that you have made this observation.  When FHky read my post, one of his first comments to me was, "...feality goes both ways, too."

I knew there was a reason I liked you. 

quote:

The question thou is what inspires and earns that fealty.  That in itself is a rather subjective answer for each one of us.


Yes it is, and often very hard to describe... and sometimes even just identify.  But for me, I know it when I see it.

quote:

...But before all this can occur... we must both be inspired in a manner that earns our fealty to each other.


Absolutely! 

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: On Service... - 9/4/2006 9:43:51 PM   
Contesaluv


Posts: 173
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SusanofO

Wonderful thread, losttreaure, and beautifully stated. I could not agree more. It is the individual person as a Dominant, that inspires me (or not) to want to serve them, and possibly put that desire toward myriad things, due to what they desire of me, not just me "wanting to be of service" in general (that is why I do volunteer work, and that fulfills a need in me to be of "general service"). This inspiration to a Dominant is due to their personal qualities I admire, and how they use them to communicate with me, mentally and emotionally - or what they convey in general to me about their character.

I think the general conception that a submissive "wants to serve" can often lead to that frequent (and not un-justified) complaint by and about submissives receiving requests from people to "serve them instantly" or who say things like: "You don't sound submissive" - as if  this "wanting to serve" in general was going to save them from having to cause a submissive to agree to serve them by being inspired by them, which is going to take some relationship skill.

Nobody gets an "insta-sub". Maybe they do, but my question then, has always been: How can you serve someone you don't even know? And how could they, as a Dominant, promise to "protect and  care for" such a person?  I for one, would not dream of expecting a Dominant to look after me if they didn't know me well, and desire to do so. Maybe Dominants are inclined to be protective, but only for certain (I think) of what is "theirs" in the long-run, and to be "theirs" means to me they've inspired someone to want to be theirs, and to submit, not demanded it without knowing someone, or earning their trust first. And vice-versa (in reverse, of course).

- Susan


Well put!  I don't want a submissive that submits to me just because I'm a Domme and he feels he needs to based on a title.  It is a relationship, a dance that I intend to engage in with an intelligent human being who has an interest in me and a desire to serve me because of what I elicit in him by my way of being and my overall character.  I say it in my profile and say it again here, I am who I am because I am naturally Dominant.  Couldn't be anything else if I wanted to be.  It would be a farce if I tried.  That anyone  would think that I am their Mistress just because is not enough for me.  I believe people rush into things out of a desire to be in relationship and to be wanted amongst other things.  That's why there is such a high rate of divorce and failed relationships in this day and age.  Humans attempts at relating are at best labored when both parties don't have a high level of compatability, even in D/s relationships.

Good OP!

_____________________________

Mistress C.

It is not in the stars to hold our destiny but in ourselves.
William Shakespeare
------------------------
In a world of so many variables, why do you have to be the norm? Anonymous

(in reply to SusanofO)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: On Service... - 9/4/2006 9:53:50 PM   
wild1cfl


Posts: 567
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		I must say that I really enjoyed reading this thread. I have been involved in D/s adn M/s relationships for over 30 years now and if there is one thing that I have learned it is that everyone is an individual and has different needs and wants. My needs have changed over the years as well as those of my Dominant wife. We have trained many people to be domestic service oriented slaves as well as playing occasionally with those people who wantjust BDSM play.  Each person should be given the chance to explore and find what works for themselves without having to fit into a certain mold. Respecting this for us for this is paramount, we respect each person's desires as to what they want and we hoep that they can in turn respect our desires for what we want. 
Great commentary from all of the posters here.
 

_____________________________

Wild

My Falcon now is sharp, and passing empty; And, till she stoop, she shall not be full gorg'd, For then she never looks upon her lure. Another way i have to man my haggard, to make her come and know her keeper's call. Wm. Shakespeare

(in reply to losttreasure)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: On Service... - 9/5/2006 5:12:47 AM   
losttreasure


Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Contesaluv

...It is a relationship, a dance that I intend to engage in with an intelligent human being who has an interest in me and a desire to serve me because of what I elicit in him by my way of being and my overall character....

...Humans attempts at relating are at best labored when both parties don't have a high level of compatability, even in D/s relationships.

Good OP!


Beautifully said, and thank you. 


quote:

ORIGINAL: wild1cfl

...Each person should be given the chance to explore and find what works for themselves without having to fit into a certain mold...



I couldn't agree more.  This should be a tenet of all those entering into BDSM relationships.  Thank you.

(in reply to wild1cfl)
Profile   Post #: 38
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