Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (Full Version)

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popeye1250 -> Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 10:33:33 AM)

Where are they? They passed another "Free-Trade Bill" last year "CAFTA" and about a month ago Hanes underware announced the closing of plants in this country to move them to Central America.
It's been about 12 years now since "NAFTA" was passed and it's been nothing but a disaster! A COLOSAL MISTAKE!
MORE illegal aliens in this country from Mexico, MORE jobs going overseas, MORE plant closings in this country.
Aren't the people in Washington getting a clue that "NAFTA" just doesn't work?
How much longer do we have to be involved in it before they realise that it just doesn't work and get us out of it?
And where are all the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton said would be generated by "NAFTA?"
Your thoughts please.



meatcleaver -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 10:47:55 AM)

It's pointless complaining popeye, America like Europe is an expensive place to make things in traditional industries and when they do, they have to be that much better than what can be produced in the far east because they will inevitably be more expensive. Hi-tech and research and design are how developed economies have to compete. It is simply the way of the world. You also have to get the idea out of your head that products rolling off a conveyor belt are the only things that get produced, software, pharmaseuticals, film and all sorts of other industries that are largely invisible earn the economy money too. Traditional factories closing down is how its going to be in all western economies.



ToGiveDivine -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 10:51:02 AM)

I am NOT a Clinton fan whatsoever (so much hype), but you can't pin this one on him - the Republicans and Democrats all wanted NAFTA (to court the illegal vote or hispanic vote, or something like that - it had to do with getting votes, not economics)

People have to understand that the Candidates from "their" party only say what they want their constituants want to hear, then they vote on what suits the them (the Candidate) best.

The biggest "Anti-Big-Business" Liberal OR the biggest "I-love-Big-Business" Conservative in Congress won't say boo to any company sending jobs overseas as long as that company is pumping money into their campaign.



popeye1250 -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 11:01:43 AM)

OK, so in other words we're going to be perpetually lied to by our own govt. and there's nothing we can do about it?
Is that what you're saying?



NorthernGent -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 11:11:02 AM)

I was looking for another link but found this one which I was trying to find a few weeks ago to prove a point.

Basically, the UK is the main beneficiary from US manufacturing investment in Europe.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2004/06/08/story151300.html

I wonder why.

Popeye, according to the link below the US and Japan are the two largest manufacturing nations in the world. So, it could be worse.

http://www.rdsoc.org/ukrandd.html



ToGiveDivine -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 11:13:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

OK, so in other words we're going to be perpetually lied to by our own govt. and there's nothing we can do about it?
Is that what you're saying?


Wow, you say that like you just dawned on you for the first time that your government would lie to you - LOL

If it makes you feel any better, it's not just the US Government, but all governments lie to their people, regardless of the country - it's been going on for centuries.



juliaoceania -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 11:19:42 AM)

I hate to break it to you, the first Bush started the NAFTA thing, so Clinton was not the only fall guy for this

And Bush the 2nd, he made all kinds of manufacturing jobs by turning hamburgers into durable goods... whatever



ToGiveDivine -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 11:25:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I hate to break it to you, the first Bush started the NAFTA thing, so Clinton was not the only fall guy for this

And Bush the 2nd, he made all kinds of manufacturing jobs by turning hamburgers into durable goods... whatever


Have you HAD a McDonald's hamburger lately?!?!?!?   It's pretty durable - YUCK!



seeksfemslave -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 11:26:40 AM)

Well at least Hamburgers are not weapons of mass destruction.
Well done gorgeous George W.



ToGiveDivine -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 11:27:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Well at least Hamburgers are not weapons of mass destruction.
Well done gorgeous George W.


And I will repeat ...  Have you HAD a McDonald's hamburger lately?!!?!??    ROFL 



seeksfemslave -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 11:31:11 AM)

Some people just wont give gorgeous George W credit for anything.



ToGiveDivine -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 11:32:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Some people just wont give gorgeous George W credit for anything.


George W. OWNS McDonald's !?!?!?!!?!?   Well, All Be ...   ;-D



seeksfemslave -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 11:36:31 AM)

Naagh...surely its Ronald McDonald...or is that the Scottish side of the business ?



meatcleaver -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 11:44:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

I was looking for another link but found this one which I was trying to find a few weeks ago to prove a point.

Basically, the UK is the main beneficiary from US manufacturing investment in Europe.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2004/06/08/story151300.html

I wonder why.



Not the war in Iraq that is for certain but a flexible market economy which is why Holland is up there too. If you invest in France or Germany you have so much more added expense, the average Germans costing 30% more to employ than the average Brit with a big pay off if you want to make that worker redundant. France has enormous cost when it comes to employing someone too, which is why so many French companies either register or move to Britain.



juliaoceania -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 11:48:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToGiveDivine

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Well at least Hamburgers are not weapons of mass destruction.
Well done gorgeous George W.


And I will repeat ...  Have you HAD a McDonald's hamburger lately?!!?!??    ROFL 



rofl... pretty damn dangerous



NorthernGent -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 12:15:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

I was looking for another link but found this one which I was trying to find a few weeks ago to prove a point.

Basically, the UK is the main beneficiary from US manufacturing investment in Europe.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2004/06/08/story151300.html

I wonder why.



Not the war in Iraq that is for certain but a flexible market economy which is why Holland is up there too. If you invest in France or Germany you have so much more added expense, the average Germans costing 30% more to employ than the average Brit with a big pay off if you want to make that worker redundant. France has enormous cost when it comes to employing someone too, which is why so many French companies either register or move to Britain.


The majority of US investment in Britain is either in the service sector or light industry where labour isn't anywhere near the expense as in manufacturing industries thus the worker/redundancy issue a red herring.

http://www.new-frontiers.org/mediacentre/TradeandInvestment.pdf#search=%22why%20does%20the%20US%20invest%20in%20Britain%22



meatcleaver -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 12:26:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

The majority of US investment in Britain is either in the service sector or light industry where labour isn't anywhere near the expense as in manufacturing industries thus the worker/redundancy issue a red herring.

http://www.new-frontiers.org/mediacentre/TradeandInvestment.pdf#search=%22why%20does%20the%20US%20invest%20in%20Britain%22


Banking is the service sector and can be enormously expensive in salaries. The point is still that it is far more expensive to run service industries in France and Germany due to overheads such as social security payments etc. and if you want to make someone redundant it costs an enormous amount to make people redundant. Also Germany and France still have many demarkation lines which increase costs that Britain no longer has. While you might be able to charge more for services in Germany, the overheads will eat away at your profits and if you are new to both Germany and France, the political interference in businesses can be a nightmare and I would imagine goes against the whole American business culture.

Having had a small business in France, my advice to anyone with the idea of doing the same, DON'T. The cost of employing someone is enormous and the bureaucracy is a nightmare.



juliaoceania -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 12:28:57 PM)

popeye,

I really do understand that certain people get on our last nerve... Clinton is that person for you. Personally I found him only half as repugnant as I do the current resident of the oval office.

What I find curious though is that you keep ranting about Clinton (which is your right btw) when 1) he is not in the white house anymore and has not been in many years and 2) the things that seem to annoy you so much about him were in fact the policies that were first implemented by Bush Senior and in some cases by Reagan.

The fact of the matter is, on important economic and international policies that have been detrimental to this country the presidents of the cold war have not differed much, and their followers have not either... the last three presidents have had more in common than not...

So I am a little perplexed at all the posts deriding Clinton about what he "has" done instead of deriding Bush about what he is doing "now"...

Just curious as to why you are living in a reality over 6 years old instead of looking at what is going on today....



Lordandmaster -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 12:54:07 PM)

News flash: Bill Clinton is no longer President of the United States.



popeye1250 -> RE: Where are the "High Paying Manufacturing Jobs" that Clinton promised us if "NAFTA" passed? (10/5/2006 1:02:10 PM)

Julia, it's not just Clinton although he did say that when he ran "NAFTA" through a Lame Duck Congress in 1994, it's all of them.
Why do they do things that are so clearly against the good of the American People?
Even former senator Phil Graham of Texas appologised for ever getting us involved in "NAFTA" a few years ago.
I don't think anyone in the country could or would defend "NAFTA" now after 12 years but it's still there!
That's why I don't like my govt. getting involved in things like that and "Pacts" with other countries because when it's time to get out of them they never want to get out. (NATO which is now redundant for example)
It's time to "Clean House" in Washington and that not only means personel but programs, trade deals, pacts and other things that no longer serve the interests of The American People.
Just the other day a "no more gambling on the internet" clause was tacked on the ass end of another Bill in the House.
What's anyone want to bet that Congressmen took money from the big casinos in this country to pass that "Bill?"



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