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RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 8:13:03 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar
They will both tell lies.

Where are the lies, if they are telling you they just want a quick fuck?
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 8:13:52 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

The woman stated that she did'nt want a commitment and just wanted to play. The problem I have with this is that everyone seemed ok with it. Now if it was a man had posted that he would have been burnt to a crisp by the flames. My question is why the double standard?


As long as the man was honest about the fact that all he was looking for was play with all parties involved i do not think there would have been flames. I think the flames come when a man states he is looking for a relationship when all he wants is casual play or when there is an uninformed wife or significant other.
 
You will notice that women who practice the behaviors i mention above get equal time on the grill. 

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 8:18:07 AM   
amlonging


Posts: 153
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		I am tired of the denial of a couble standard.
This is how I see it.
1.) Men DO want to play before they begin a relationship to see if the partner is compatible and compliant as a submisssive to His tastes and desires. 
2.) Some women want to bottom or play before they decide on the kind of submissive they are.
3.) More women than men do not want to play, discover each other's kinks and fetishes, before they find their Perfect partner for thir own moral ethical or whatever reason.
 
I remember a forum from one year ago, Men Don't do relationships first and quite fitting to be revisited in light of this forum.... 
http://www.collarchat.com/m_132954/mpage_1/key_men%252Cdont%252Crelationships/tm.htm#132954

I agree with you Dnomyar...the IS a subtle double standard

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 8:35:21 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
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From: UK
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quote:

1.) Men DO want to play before they begin a relationship to see if the partner is compatible and compliant as a submisssive to His tastes and desires.
Men arent always the dominants - so this comment makes little sense.  What about male submissives? 
It also shows all your thoughts are based only on assumptions, as you are assuming from the get go - that all males are dominants.
quote:

2.) Some women want to bottom or play before they decide on the kind of submissive they are.
How can bottoming or playing determine what kind of submissive one is????????  Thats far too simplistic a comment.
quote:

3.) More women than men do not want to play, discover each other's kinks and fetishes, before they find their Perfect partner for thir own moral ethical or whatever reason.
Now if your observation were in fact true - no wonder why so many men are accused of being bastards.
If its true that women want the commited relationship first before the kink, fetish, submission, then seriously - why the fuck are they here?  Your comment a sweeping generalisation, just set 'women' back a hundred years.
 
A commited relationship only comes when you know and understand each others likes/desires/fetishes etc.  As well as your own.  You are way off target if you expect commitment, or even a relationship if you don't discover each other first.
Thinking otherwise is a very scarey concept.
 
Peace and Rapture


_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to amlonging)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 8:53:40 AM   
MsKatHouston


Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline
quote:

More women than men do not want to play, discover each other's kinks and fetishes, before they find their Perfect partner for thir own moral ethical or whatever reason.


Most people, men and women, play and get to know one another before becoming involved in a more serious relationship.  That's just common sense.  If there is not compatibility then people move on.  Getting to know one another with the intention of a possible long term commitment, discovering there is no hope for one and moving on is vastly different than stating you want one, getting your kicks and moving on with no intention of having ever wanting a serious commitment.  I still do not see a double standard.  Both men and women either want a serious relationship or don't.  This has nothing to do with which gender is more apt to want serious as opposed to casual but whether it is more acceptable for one gender or the other to want it.

What most people are saying is that, sure it is ok for either gender to want casual play.  Just be up front about what it is you want from the start so you do not hurt someone else or waste someone's time. 
 
 

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~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 9:01:21 AM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

So a man who says he wants to get in your pants is not a player and that is ok. But a player who wants to get in your pants is not ok. Are they not both after the same thing? So why the Player label? They will both tell lies.


A man who wants to get into someone's pants and tells her that's all he wants, isn't lying. He gives her the choice to involve herself in casual sex.  A "player" lies, telling her all he thinks she wants to hear, so that she believes there is something meaningful between them and lets her guard down.  When all he really wants is that casual sex I mentioned.  There is a big difference exploiting someones emotions for personal gain under false pretenses, and simply stating what you want, honestly.

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 9:06:10 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

So a man who says he wants to get in your pants is not a player and that is ok. But a player who wants to get in your pants is not ok. Are they not both after the same thing? So why the Player label? They will both tell lies.


I am thinking in terms of informed consent. If I do not have all the relative facts related to my submission then I cannot make informed consent. If someone is lying to me about their relationship goals then I am not able to consent to submitting in an informed way.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 9:13:22 AM   
amlonging


Posts: 153
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		 
1.) Men DO want to play before they begin a relationship to see if the partner is compatible and compliant as a submissive to His tastes and desires.
Men arent always the dominants - so this comment makes little sense.  What about male submissives? 
It also shows all your thoughts are based only on assumptions, as you are assuming from the get go - that all males are dominants.
 
You are certainly correct .dark.
I will amend my first statement.
Some men DO want to play before they begin a relationship
to see if the partner is compatible and compliant with their tastes and desires. Notice there is only gender, no titles, because you “find labels restrictive”. 
I can honor that and anyone else who finds assumptions so disturbing.

2.) Some women want to bottom or play before they decide on the kind of submissive they are.
How can bottoming or playing determine what kind of submissive one is????????  Thats far too simplistic a comment.
Yes, I agree it is. 
Let’s talk about BDSM submissive, not D/s submissive,
since I think there is a HUGE differentiation.
There would be the submissive that enjoys and thrives on pain.
There would be the definite masochist.
There would be the dungeon submissive/slave who enjoys submitting only in the dungeon/public---also called a bottom I think?
There would be the closet slut/whore.
There would be the service oriented ONLY sub/slave.
I believe that one (m/f) will only determine what they are seeking
if they explore their desires and “fantasies” (how much I hate that word)
with a partner of the opposite orientation (m/f).  I hope I made that less simplistic

More women than men do not want to play, discover each other's kinks and fetishes, before they find their Perfect partner for their own moral ethical or whatever reason.
Now if your observation were in fact true - no wonder why so many men are accused of being bastards.
If its true that women want the commited relationship first before the kink, fetish, submission, then seriously - why the fuck are they here?  Your comment a sweeping generalisation, just set 'women' back a hundred years.

This argument can be found on this forum .dark.
http://www.collarchat.com/m_132954/mpage_1/key_men%252Cdont%252Crelationship/tm.htm#132954

This argument can be found on that forum .dark.

A commited relationship only comes when you know and understand each others likes/desires/fetishes etc.  As well as your own. 
ABSOLUTELY!!!! I COULD not AGREE more!!
Tis why you explore and experiment as a bottom or top…you say up front as the other forum OP states The woman stated that she did'nt want a commitment and just wanted to play.
 
You are way off target if you expect commitment, or even a relationship if you don't discover each other first.
Thinking otherwise is a very scarey concept.
And that .dark. is EXACTLY my point!
If a woman admits to wanting to play vs a man admitting her wants to play  (roles aside).
There IS a double standard.
 

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 9:24:55 AM   
becca333


Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2006
Status: offline 		Anyone being honest about what they want is treated well here.  The others are way more fun - the players and posers and wannabes make lovely targets.

I've found this site is a brilliant resource - you can ask anything and get a lot of useful, considered responses.  Most posters are happy to share their knowledge and experience, and they treat genuine questions with respect.

(in reply to amlonging)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 9:51:36 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline 		Well, I have read the discussion you have indicated, I jut dont see how it relates.  Plus it is a discussion from over a year ago - and ideas do change extremely quickly.  If we are going to have a discussion on double standards, as the OP started, I would much prefere to hear your views now - not just the past.
 
quote:

You are way off target if you expect commitment, or even a relationship if you don't discover each other first.
Thinking otherwise is a very scarey concept.
And that .dark. is EXACTLY my point!
If a woman admits to wanting to play vs a man admitting her wants to play  (roles aside).
There IS a double standard.

 
I am so not following you here.
Where is the double standard.  Neither male nor female is wrong when they are honest they just want to play?
So where is the double standard?
 
Peace and Rapture


< Message edited by darkinshadows -- 10/11/2006 9:53:55 AM >

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to amlonging)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 10:05:12 AM   
Tikkiee


Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

For me a player is someone who tries to get what he or she wants in the short term by deception of some sort

I would have to agree.
quote:

  So a man who says he wants to get in your pants is not a player and that is ok. But a player who wants to get in your pants is not ok. Are they not both after the same thing? So why the Player label? They will both tell lies.


Any man who comes to me honestly and says 'hey I want to fuck you, but that's all I want from our time together' in my eyes, is not a player in regards to how you define it.
Any man who comes to me and says 'hey, I want to form a RELATIONSHIP with you' and then uses that to do nothing but fuck me is dishonest about what he was originally looking for.
 
I would resepect the first one but not the second.
quote:

Anyone being honest about what they want is treated well here.  The others are way more fun - the players and posers and wannabes make lovely targets. 


 

this I have found, from my own personal experiences here, to be very true.

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(in reply to MsKatHouston)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 10:07:12 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

Any man who comes to me and says 'hey, I want to form a RELATIONSHIP with you' and then uses that to do nothing but fuck me is dishonest about what he was originally looking for.


I have to agree, this is high level dishonesty in my opinion.


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- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Tikkiee)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 10:10:04 AM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

Any man who comes to me and says 'hey, I want to form a RELATIONSHIP with you' and then uses that to do nothing but fuck me is dishonest about what he was originally looking for.


I have to agree, this is high level dishonesty in my opinion.



Kinda hard to argue with that.
(Counting my blessings now...1,2,3...)

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 12:30:15 PM   
thisishis


Posts: 278
Joined: 5/11/2006
From: Southeastern MA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar
The woman stated that she did'nt want a commitment and just wanted to play.
If she stated it, it was communicated, and that doesn't add up to being a bad thing.

If she stated it to the person she wanted to play with, i see no problem. If the other person knows up front and is not being lead on/stringed along or lead to think that the woman is open to a committment of sorts ... then, the other person has been given enough information to make an informed decision (as apposed to assuming/jumping to conclusions/having expectations in a situation of which none were expressed or offered etc) to play or walk.

It makes no difference whether we are speaking of a woman/man , woman/woman , man/man , etc ... it's all the same regardless of the gender of those involved. i don't see the problem.




< Message edited by thisishis -- 10/11/2006 12:31:39 PM >

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(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 2:31:44 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

Now if it was a man had posted that he would have been burnt to a crisp by the flames. My question is why the double standard?


I think flames come about much more often, not because of what someones says, but how they say it. I have my icons turned off, so unless someone has an actual picture up or it's very obvious by their chosen nic, I rarely know if it's a man or woman to whom I am responding. Even if I did know, it wouldn't change the way I respond to someone. For example, I have no idea if you are a man or a woman .. either way, this is the response you are getting from me. :)

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 8:45:56 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		i can't say i've witnessed it here, but i know in one bdsm chat i go to on another site, nobody gets more appreciative pats on the head than a guy who says up front He's a top, only looking for a bottoming buddy.  

To many of us, that means They aren't offering power exchange outside of the duration of a scene, even if that "scene" means the weekend, with a 3 hour session on saturday afternoon.  That info is so much more honest and appealing then a guy who wants to have a weekend of control, and a session on sat, but calls himself a Dominant, which implies He's seeking control beyond just scene time.  

Most of the subs i know seeking a Dom will also dither with a Top just for the physical fun or experience while they continue to keep an eye out for "their special One"  ..  so Tops can get a lot of action if They are truly honest about what They're looking for.   Doesn't seem like a double standard at all..  to me, that sounds like a win/win.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 9:27:44 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

As usual this question is from reading another post. The woman stated that she did'nt want a commitment and just wanted to play. The problem I have with this is that everyone seemed ok with it. Now if it was a man had posted that he would have been burnt to a crisp by the flames. My question is why the double standard?


No double standard just fewer that are willing to play your way. If you can find one great but I wouldn't call it common.

_____________________________

Finding a good sub is like sifting through trail mix. You find a few fruits, a lotta nuts and have to sift to get to the sweet and special ones
drama llama

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 10:13:38 PM   
duckssinthewind


Posts: 24
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
it isnt unfair to say a woman (or a man) is a slut, and i am the first to say i am.
notice how much of this discussion is about time: i can tell you that running out of time prioritizes sex, that i deeply resent every day i waste, that i decide quickly about trust and intimacy.
to guard our emotions, our time, or our illusions, risk what you can afford to lose.

(in reply to theRose4U)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Double standard - 10/11/2006 10:18:47 PM   
wild1cfl


Posts: 567
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

As usual this question is from reading another post. The woman stated that she did'nt want a commitment and just wanted to play. The problem I have with this is that everyone seemed ok with it. Now if it was a man had posted that he would have been burnt to a crisp by the flames. My question is why the double standard?

Personally I don't think there is any problem with either a man or a woman wanting to just "play". My wife and I have known many people who just want the expereince of BDSM whether it be on top or the bottom and only want it for play. We have had several friends that we have known for many years that we play wiht regularly and there is no commitment we are just good friends. We are not talking about kinky sex either, we are just talking about BDSM realted activities.

_____________________________

Wild

My Falcon now is sharp, and passing empty; And, till she stoop, she shall not be full gorg'd, For then she never looks upon her lure. Another way i have to man my haggard, to make her come and know her keeper's call. Wm. Shakespeare

(in reply to Dnomyar)
Profile   Post #: 39
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