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GothicusFreakyus -> D/s contract (2/17/2005 12:17:24 PM)

we are looking to add a bit of formality to our relationship and would like to write a contract. Ive seen them before but neither of us have ever written one so im looking for help and advise.

any comments greatly appreciated.



proudsub -> RE: D/s contract (2/17/2005 4:33:55 PM)

We have had several threads on contracts and if you do a search you will find them. Here is a link to the one i feel is the most appropriate to your question. I personally like the contract that Topcat posts in that thread:

Master/slave contract



MzBerlin -> RE: D/s contract (2/17/2005 5:16:20 PM)

*Looks around for Taggard*



Tangwystal -> RE: D/s contract (2/17/2005 8:31:28 PM)

and I hereby offer to calligraph and illuminate your contract for you ... as long as you like Batarde (it's the quick hand) and just tell me what sort of illumination you want on it. (illumination being the pictures around the writing for those non medieval re-creationists)




temptation -> RE: D/s contract (2/17/2005 10:38:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GothicusFreakyus

we are looking to add a bit of formality to our relationship and would like to write a contract. Ive seen them before but neither of us have ever written one so im looking for help and advise.

any comments greatly appreciated.


just remember that the contract probably wont mean anything in the court of law..

but then, it may not be for that



Darthbetta -> RE: D/s contract (2/20/2005 9:07:58 AM)

I think the "Contract" aspect is good, and what it does is throw everything out on the table, and make there be a clear cut black and white hard expectations and limits list, and outlines (roughly) what is to be expected.

Although it does not always work out, it helps and you can make adjustments as needed.

IF anyone tells you that a Dom and slave should not have "love" as part of their equasion, then they are either a hardassed self focused fucktwit, or a liar and player fake with a cold black soul.

You will be provided:
A key,
A safe and dry house with heat and hot water, private space and bedroom of your own,
Food, (and yes I cook well)
Laundry W/D in my house.
Rides to and from work (I am on 3 major bus lines also)
Internet (highspeed) and PC.
phone service
and more.



WHAT I WILL EXPECT:

1) Loyalty
2) 100 % open discussions
3) use of safe word = OAKLAHOMA ( and yes it is spelled wrong for a reason)
4) If other Doms wish to speek with you online, you referr them to me first to ask my aproval. ( I usualy do OK it... I just like knowing who is who).
5) we all share E-mails and chats when necessary.
6) My house, My rules.
7) Financial self sufficency or a contribution to the general cause IE groceries, rent, gas, phone / internet access..... I provide most of it, but I too need to be able to rely on people who can be left to fend for themselves on occasion, or to cough up some loot to make "existing" easier on all us.
8) I will never hurt you, or cross a line that is set out as a hard limit.
9) no punching, bloodletting, or severe beating. I am a Master, not a fucking bastard who gets pleasure from turning a woman ( or man) into a human punching bag with bruises and broken bones.
10) You are to be disease free, and a light or preferably non-smoker
11) Not on any havy dose "psyche" drug perscriptions for antidepression or any other narcotics.
12) RESPECT at all times. I live 24/7. While this is nto a constant "scene", it does make you accountable for your words, actions, and lack of thoughtfulness at al times.
13) You MUST have a sense of humor.
14) read my bondage.com profile.
15) Masters' word and decisions are FINAL. After a discussion where you object or dislike something, I will make a decision and while I may not always be right, I will admit when I am wrong and adjust things accordingly to suit all parties involved.

this is just an excerpt from myown , but it gives you an idea.



domtimothy46176 -> RE: D/s contract (2/20/2005 8:47:43 PM)

We don't have a contract, per se. What we have is a list of exclusions. My girl has listed those areas of her existance wherein I am excluded from attempting to exert control. Everything else is fair game. It may not suit you and yours but we've found it to be very beneficial to us.
Timothy



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: D/s contract (2/21/2005 7:51:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzBerlin

*Looks around for Taggard*



Hmm...don't know how I missed this before, but contracts are rather a kink of mine, and something which I do all the time.

My idea of a contract is quite different then most. Most see contracts like wedding vows. They have no end date and are usually quite romantic. My idea of a contract is as a tool for growth, communication, and discovery.

I doubt you would be interested in my kind of contract. But I'd be happy to help if I can.

And I really would suggest having a look at Lawrence's contract in the thread posted by proudsub. As far as relationship defining contracts go, it is the best I have ever read.

Taggard



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: D/s contract (2/21/2005 7:52:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tangwystal

and I hereby offer to calligraph and illuminate your contract for you ... as long as you like Batarde (it's the quick hand) and just tell me what sort of illumination you want on it. (illumination being the pictures around the writing for those non medieval re-creationists)




Hmmm...I have such a paperwork fetish, if you ever offered to do this for me, I'd have you slaving away like a eleventh century monk. *wink*

Taggard



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: D/s contract (2/21/2005 7:56:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: temptation
just remember that the contract probably wont mean anything in the court of law..


While they certainly are not legally binding, they are not completely worthless in the eyes of the law.

One of the reasons I have my series of contracts is that they clearly establish intent and boundaries of both the master and the slave. It certainly would provide, at the very least, a context in which such a relationship could be understood should criminal charges be filed.

Of course, there is no guarantee this would help, but it does let me sleep just a bit easier at night knowing I have some sort of paper trail.

Taggard



Mercnbeth -> RE: D/s contract (2/21/2005 8:08:01 AM)

We are coming up to our second anniversary as a couple living under a contract. Ours is long, detailed, and contains a ritual for beth. It's too long to attach if interested use the mail program and give me a direct email address and I'll send it to you.



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: D/s contract (2/21/2005 9:08:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

We are coming up to our second anniversary as a couple living under a contract.


Do you ever update it?

I have such a contract thing and would love a copy... [email protected]

Taggard



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: D/s contract (2/21/2005 9:11:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darthbetta

IF anyone tells you that a Dom and slave should not have "love" as part of their equasion, then they are either a hardassed self focused fucktwit, or a liar and player fake with a cold black soul.


I am neither, and I do indeed tell my slaves that they should not have "love" as part of their "equasion".

Taggard



Wolfspet -> RE: D/s contract (2/21/2005 10:16:39 AM)

Taggard, stop being so defensive.

Your contracts are for short term play . You have openly admitted that for you the training and etc are your kink, and you are not looking for a long term M/s relationship. So obviously your needs are different.



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: D/s contract (2/21/2005 10:38:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wolfspet
So obviously your needs are different.


And you, obviously, know little about me.

I do, in fact, seek a long term M/s relationship; one in which "love" will play no part. I am not the only top in the world who prefers to have long term M/s relationships without needing to love my slave. My contracts start out being short term but lengthen to their maximum of one year. For some, one year might be short term, but it is the longest I am willing to be in a contract without re-negotiation.

Being called a "fucktwit" and/or a "player fake with a cold black soul" could be considered offensive enough to make one defensive, not that I thought my response was particularly defensive. I was simply pointing out that there are serious, real, responsible, non-"fucktwit" and non-"player" folk who don't mix love and BDSM.

Taggard



Mercnbeth -> RE: D/s contract (2/21/2005 11:22:42 AM)

quote:

I do, in fact, seek a long term M/s relationship; one in which "love" will play no part. I am not the only top in the world who prefers to have long term M/s relationships without needing to love my slave.


Taggard,
I will say that without 'love' my long term M/s relationship would be much different. It would be more pragmatic, and I'm sure, more strict and disciplined. I've shared my 'contract' with you. I'm sure, it's enforcement would be different without 'love' entering into the "equasion" (sic). Also for consideration are the ancillary problems associated with slave love. When you love a person, your consideration of that love enters into the decision making process. Not so much in the treatment of a slave under 'contract', but in the situations and people in your slave's non-M/s life. Even the best laid plans and contract intentions carefully thought out, understood, and agreed to; are subject to influences outside the control of either the Master or slave. When that happens love infects the pragmatic decision making process necessary for a strong and dominant Master weakening not only dominance, but the relationship. I couldn't agree more, that when these life situations arise, love is a nuisance. The question is, is that something to strive for or something to avoid?

Appreciating your position, I'm interested to know your feelings regarding the other side of the equation. How do you deal with the likely occurrence of the slave feeling 'love' for you? Would you allow it to happen or would it be something you would try to dominate out of her? Independent of her saying so, but by your observation you felt love entering into the relationship on either part; how would you address the situation?

Succinctly as possible, like the old scatological bumper sticker; "Love Happens!". If it happened to Taggard, what then?



TallDarkAndWitty -> RE: D/s contract (2/21/2005 11:43:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MercnbethWhen that happens love infects the pragmatic decision making process necessary for a strong and dominant Master weakening not only dominance, but the relationship. I couldn't agree more, that when these life situations arise, love is a nuisance. The question is, is that something to strive for or something to avoid?


I won't pretend to be able to answer this, but I can share what I have learned so far. In the beginning of my exploration of this lifestyle, I tried to turn a vanilla romantic relationship with women I loved (and had loved for many years) into BDSM relationship where she consentually agreed to be my slave. It was an unmitigated disaster. My love for her prevented me from working through the tears and doubt and all of the things that a top must be able to bear.

I then thought that what I wanted was someone who was a slave, but also my "one." After several attempts at that, I relaized that it wasn't what I wanted either.

So now (for the past few months) I am seeking what I have described here and in my profile. Is this what will work for me? I believe it is...it feels right and I am happier and more active in the lifestyle than ever. I guess only time will tell.

quote:


How do you deal with the likely occurrence of the slave feeling 'love' for you?


While I cetainly expect, even demand, a very close emotional connection with my slave, I very much worry about the slave falling in love with me (or my partner). It is why I make it very clear up front that love is not what this is about, and I encourage her to continue persuing other relationships, be they vanialla or kink-based.

quote:


Would you allow it to happen or would it be something you would try to dominate out of her?


Trying to dominate love out of a slave seems to me a bit like trying to dominate curiosity out of a cat.

quote:


Independent of her saying so, but by your observation you felt love entering into the relationship on either part; how would you address the situation?


If I felt it was impacting the rest of her life, if I thought she was pining away or missing opportunities that she could otherwise persue, I would probably take a long break between contracts. All of my contracts expire, and I would use that time to express what I felt was going on and how this really was not acceptable in what I was looking for. I would encourage the slave to find a suitable relationship, and once she did, I would be open to negotiating a new contract. (In case you hadn't noticed, my contracts are the principle tool I use in managing my Master/slave relationships.)

quote:


Succinctly as possible, like the old scatological bumper sticker; "Love Happens!". If it happened to Taggard, what then?


I suppose I will have to jump off that bridge when I come to it. *smile*

Taggard



Wolfspet -> RE: D/s contract (2/21/2005 3:35:53 PM)

Actually Taggard, my point of reference was in a post you had made at b.com, where you said that your kink was in the training, and, and after the training was done, you pretty much accomplished what the reationship was contracted for.

That lead me to believe that is all that was in it for you. Perhaps your concepts have expanded since you made that posting?



Tangwystal -> RE: D/s contract (2/21/2005 5:17:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tangwystal

and I hereby offer to calligraph and illuminate your contract for you ... as long as you like Batarde (it's the quick hand) and just tell me what sort of illumination you want on it. (illumination being the pictures around the writing for those non medieval re-creationists)




Hmmm...I have such a paperwork fetish, if you ever offered to do this for me, I'd have you slaving away like a eleventh century monk. *wink*

Taggard

ahh, but Taggard, batarde is a 16th century hand...

Tang



LadyAngelika -> RE: D/s contract (2/21/2005 5:31:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MzBerlin

*Looks around for Taggard*


Cute. I remember the original contract thread I saw here. I never gave contracts a second thought before it.

I remember how much Lawrence's covenant made me swoon.

- LA



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