RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (Full Version)

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smilezz -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 7:23:23 AM)

I don't believe it has anything to do with submissive nature.  I am a perfectionist/anal/organizational freak about "certain" things.  Not in everything.
I have been this way as long as i can remember.  I was the kid that my parents never had to tell me to clean my room, pick up my clothes, iron my uniforms.  However, i was the black sheep of the family, so to speak.  I got in more trouble for disobeying...being defiant and choosing my own path.

Not until i grew up and found an alternative way to live did i understand any of this.
I am still rather anal about certain things.  Master does not mind so much that i am.  He likes the fact that i am a cleaning nut, that i enjoy ironing, that the cleaning aspect is one of the very few things that actually relaxes me.   Coming from a person that really does not know how to relax a great deal, He watches me closely to put His hand on me in guidance when needed.

I often wonder why more people are not like this.......i don't really understand it....i can say that it does not bother me like it used to years ago.  I have always been the "Just let me do it and it will get done" kind of person.  I will admit that i still struggle with that from time to time.......moreso when Thorns is at home though.

I can now let a sock lay on the bedroom floor for a few hours before picking it up.  YAY!  now i know that is not a big deal for many of you.......for me?  HUGE!

I think i am now rambling......i have not met my daily requirement of caffiene.  *chucklez*

Happy Saturday y'all!
~smilezz~




mymasterssub69 -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 8:06:24 AM)

More common I find in submissives is simply making all their time and lives about gaining approval from others and trying to be "the rock" for everyone else- not allowing themselves to be or appear weak, or demand their own needs and desires be fulfilled.

didn't see this earlier and felt i should comment about it.

i'm "the rock" in my vanilla life for the entire family. it really came alive when my oldest was involved in a traumatic accident and at the time, i didn't allow others to see me cry or weak in public because i felt it wasn't right. i had to stay strong for the family and for my oldest especially while being interviewed by the media and press however i was hurting inside but i still refused to cry. this was when my "superwoman" mode kicked in having everyone believe i can do it all - job, take oldest to therapy and specialists, attorneys and etc to the point i would stress myself out. my family and friends would make me take a day off and let them handle things yet i didn't want to relinquish control thinking it show how weak i've become.

flash forward to 6 1/2 yrs later - i'm still "the rock" of the family ...still stress myself out but not as much i did before however it's my desire to perfect in all things that Daddy knows he has to break this bad habit out of me. i feel if i'm not perfect, the "rock" will crack and everyone will think she's weak - so i'm very hard on myself to achieve that perfectionism. even after my last punishment from Daddy, i was super hard on myself because i wasn't the perfect daughter i thought Daddy wanted. then he reminded me that i didn't have to be perfect to be His daughter - i only had to be me.




asassylilslave -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 8:31:12 AM)

Do I think that I am a perfectionalist? Absolutly not. I learned very early on that perfection does not exist; and that trying to attain that level was futile. I simply do the best that I can and am happy with myself for that.




darksdesire -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 8:47:07 AM)

I am not a perfectionist in most things.  At the same time, I have unreasonable expectations of myself in one area; my relationships, and this shows up most profoundly as a submissive.  I expect perfection from myself, have little patience for my failures, and at times, a failure will briefly wipe out all my successes.  I am this way to some degree in all my close relationships. For example, as a mother, I am devoted, attentive, patient, nurturing, but on the rare occasion that I am irritable, or inattentive, I can beat myself up, forgetting that I am generally a pretty fantastic parent.

I usually don't mind making mistakes in all other areas, but I am pretty hard on myself for mistakes in relation to those I love.  I'm guessing that may be a submissive trait - the desire to please others?   




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 9:23:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darksdesire
I usually don't mind making mistakes in all other areas, but I am pretty hard on myself for mistakes in relation to those I love.  I'm guessing that may be a submissive trait - the desire to please others?   

Fraid not, most people in the world have a desire to please others.  Lots of doms and vanillas.




tricia -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 9:27:23 AM)

My perfectionist tendencies serve no purpose.  My writing has to be perfect – I can go through 25 sheets of paper making out a grocery list.  Letters, notes, thank you cards rarely get sent.  Thank goodness for the typed word.  And yes, I am a font whore.
 
I do have some OCD tendencies.  Cleaning.  Although this only applies to ‘surface cleaning’ – if you open a closet door junk will fall on top of you.  My stint in therapy taught me I use cleaning as a way to soothe myself.  I do tend to become more obsessed with it when I’m feeling down.
 
I always take a bath before I will allow myself to read a new book or magazine.
 
I have a face washing fetish – I can’t touch anything between the time I wash my face and apply my makeup or I have to wash it again.
 
I have appearance issues although as I get older they have seemed to dim a bit.  And of course, because I over analyze everything, I know this has something to do with the way I was raised.  I was extremely shy when I was young and this bothered my father.  “you girls embarrass me” became his most infamous line.  I managed to convince myself if my hair, makeup and finger nails were perfect – nothing could go wrong. 
 
So, yes, I agree – at least in my case – a lot of it is about being insecure and not measuring up.




Zsuzsanna -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 9:56:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

about a year or so something kinda strange happened.... I lost my perfectionism... it is almost like I lost my religion or something!

I am not anal anymore, I feel as though I am entirely good enough the way that I am, I no longer have to be the "best" at things... and the most disconcerting thing of all, I do not care if I am right anymore or if I make mistakes anymore. I am patient with me.

I do not know if it is my burgeoning relationship with my Daddy, or if it is something else, but it has been a paradigm shift in my awareness. This is also a trait that I closely associated with my submissiveness... this part of me that always strived to please, to be perfect... and it is no longer there. I still desire to be submissive to my Daddy, I still feel that is who I am to him and it feels right and it feels good... but I wonder about something because I lost this perfectionist edge.... would I ever desire to be submissive to anyone else? I do not think I would.



What!?! You mean this can actually happen?
*ponders this*
I'm not entirely sure I would want to not be a perfectionist anymore. It's why I'm so valuable at work. My complete innability to accept failure in any way. I try to be at least one of the best at everything I do. If I'm not exceptional, I will not rest until I am.   




julietsierra -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 9:59:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

More common I find in submissives is simply making all their time and lives about gaining approval from others and trying to be "the rock" for everyone else- not allowing themselves to be or appear weak, or demand their own needs and desires be fulfilled.


Ok LA! I need to say this now!

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!! That's MY hamster wheel you're running around on and I'd appreciate it if you didn't share all my deepest motivations with the world thankyouverymuch!! I've got enough running round inside my head without you being there too!!

*laughing* The problem I've found with being "the rock" is that I've gotten so good at hiding my weaknesses, that no one recognizes that sometimes, I'm just scared silly and would love a rock of my own to lean on from time to time.


In my world, life has always been very .. inconsistent. I was never ever sure where I stood with anyone or anything, so somewhere along the line, I found out that the more "perfect" I was, the more consistent life would be.

Growing up with hot tempered, hot loving parents meant that they could love me in one moment and be screaming in the next. I'm a very calm person. I've always been a very calm person. The drama was almost too much to handle as a kid, so I'd perfect what I could and hold the drama at bay - for the most part.

When I married, I married a man who was soft spoken but authoritative (could this possibly be a calm-natured "rock?!) Except that he was an alcoholic who in a very short amount of time, because abusive. He also needed perfection to keep his life in control, but life is not perfect, people are not perfect, and I quickly learned what not being perfect could lead to. So... perfection was how I kept life reasonably calm in my house. Keep the house perfect, the kids perfect, me perfect, make sure dinner was perfect, and I could be reasonably assured of a calm evening. Except that I never was perfect.

After I divorced, I was bound and determined to never get into a situation like that, so I finally turned the idea of perfection inward. I figured everyone else could be what they wanted to be, but if I could hold myself to a perfect standard, I stood a chance at not becoming involved in something as crazy-making as my marriage was again. I developed an incredibly high standard that I held the people I might be interested in to. (I even messed up in that at first too). I had, in my head, this amazing list of situations and how they needed to react within those situations, or I was not going to be involved with them. In large part, I still maintain that list, although ti's changed over the years a bit. 

Ultimately though, it worked. I finally found someone who fit every single thing I was looking for in a man/dominant. Yup... for the most part, my fantasy actually IS what I got when I met the man who would become my Master. And I got even more than I'd looked for, because while he continues to demand perfection from me (a comfort zone for me), when I start to get ridiculous about, he laughs at me until I figure out how to laugh at myself (definitely NOT something I'm comfortable with) And I AM learning to laugh at myself.

Hmmm...if I think about long enough, I realize that he's helping me become a healthier version of the perfect me by enabling me to laugh at my imperfections.

This is pretty cool.

juliet




ownedgirlie -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 10:27:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

More common I find in submissives is simply making all their time and lives about gaining approval from others and trying to be "the rock" for everyone else- not allowing themselves to be or appear weak, or demand their own needs and desires be fulfilled.


I'll join in with the others who have quoted this.  This used to be the case with me but no longer is.  Last year I was forced to rely on the help of others.  I would not have made it through the year without it.  Being vulnerable is not being weak (lightbulb).  Needing the love and support of friends and family is not a weakness ('nother lightbulb).  The inability to accept such things - self flaws, the love of others, the need to ask for help - is, however, a weakness.

I am not a perfectionist, although I push to live up to my capabilities, which I know are high. But I know I will never reach perfection, and while I may strive for perfection, I do not (anymore) beat myself up when I fall short of it. Let's just say I'm perfectly imperfect. [;)]

I was married to a perfectionist.  He was an extreme perfectionist, in that he could not ever begin something without 100% certainty that the outcome would be perfect.  Therefore, he is stuck, planning his life as life passes him by.  No one is good enough for him, including himself.  I used to, in my own cruel sarcasm, tell him "Oh I forgot - I'm married to Jesus Christ himself." because I was so frustrated by this. It is a shame, all he has lost because of it.  When I see the word "perfectionist," I think of it in this extreme sense.




juliaoceania -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 10:29:40 AM)

quote:

What!?! You mean this can actually happen?
*ponders this*
I'm not entirely sure I would want to not be a perfectionist anymore. It's why I'm so valuable at work. My complete innability to accept failure in any way. I try to be at least one of the best at everything I do. If I'm not exceptional, I will not rest until I am.   



Well I am living proof it is possible, smiles. If your perfectionism makes you happy, makes you fulfilled, then it indeed has a purpose for you. It did not make me feel good or fulfilled, believing I am lovable despite my flaws has made me a very happy camper. I would worry that it will impact my academic career, but I do not believe that it will, I have other motivations besides being perfection in other people's eyes... I want to be perfect in my own which does not mean living up to some external standard. It is just my way of interpreting my motivations.. probably only applicable to me.

After making this post I have thought more about it, and I do think that feeling valued for being me has led to this epiphany. I am very grateful for my Daddy. Someone mentioned that he must indeed have a lot of patience to be with me on another thread.... well he does have a lot of patience period, but more importantly, he is teaching me to be patient with myself... which is a lesson I really needed to learn[:)]

Thank you everyone for all of your insights into this...

And it is not that I think perfectionism = submissiveness, but it just seemed that a lot of submissives are perfectionists. Thank you all for sharing your experiences.




mymasterssub69 -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 11:15:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
Being vulnerable is not being weak (lightbulb).  Needing the love and support of friends and family is not a weakness ('nother lightbulb).  The inability to accept such things - self flaws, the love of others, the need to ask for help - is, however, a weakness.


thank you so much for posting this.

it's one of many bad habits especially the need to ask for help - i rarely do (my "superwoman mode" gets very powerful at times) but with Daddy i'm gradually learning how.




junecleaver -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 11:25:17 AM)

I am not very forgiving of myself, but I'm not a 'perfectionist.'  I think I just learned to love the mess.




mewmew -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 11:32:01 AM)

Susan,

Plus, there were some things I'd gone through that made me feel I had to over-compensate for things that had happened to me that were really out of my control, by getting great grades, looking perfect (or trying to) all the time, etc. Which wasn't true, but I was acting on that assumption for probably a good 15 years of my life.

I definitely relate to this. I developed my eating disorders (anorexia/nonpurging bulemia) during my late teen years in attempts to overcompensate (sometimes to extremes) for my self-perceived failings (I tend to blame myself when life heads south or gets slow, whether it's really my fault or not - what can I do to make it better? Why can't I make it better? ...It's frustrating).

In addition to my obsession with looking good, I had your achievement compulsion as well! I called it "young college woman syndrome"; I was suddenly out in the world and faced with a boatload of seemingly impossible pressures I would have to deal with more or less on my own. So, I resolved to try to play the game as well as I could by working the systems that were available to me...sorority offices, honor societies (*phi beta kappa handshake with you*), scholarships, getting a JD from a top ten law school, and whatever I could manage to help myself feel...vindicated, I guess.

As some of you guys have mentioned, there was also a personal relationship component - I really did want to be everybody's best friend. If not 'the rock,' at least someone that everyone liked and trusted. Basically, as stupid and naive as I am/was, I just wanted to be free from reproach. I wanted people to meet me/get to know me and think, "This gal is alright! She's got it together!"

I've also got that fear of confrontation, which in some ways is a part of the same 'gotta love me' compulsion, but also involves a certain amount of vulnerability masking. When I am alone, some of the control or "responsibility" (perhaps a better term...I have an innergirl, after all) a dominant would exercise devolves to me. I am tremendously guarded in many ways, and hate hate hate it when people try to alpha me, even in small silly ways, without my consent. I fear violation (yeah, I'm sure I overreact a lot, lol), so I avoid confrontation if avoidance is an ethical option. I have a strong personality and I don't mind rallying the inner troops for a scuffle when I have to, but it takes a lot of energy and makes me feel like utter ass afterwards. Strange conundrum in a sub, perhaps, but it's here in me just the same; when I'm alone I'm the leader, and I feel I have to do the best job of protecting myself (or whatever else) that I can.

Anyway. I think LA is right - control is definitely a root. Many eating disorders - to pick out another controlly example, hehe - are commonly associated with life changes... crises of comfort, loss of stability, and the resulting desire to reimpose some sort of order or control upon one's situation. This and most of my other overcompensation compulsions went into overdrive at the cusp of adulthood, a time when I was being forced to become master of my own life. I wasn't - and I'm still not - comfortable with being ultimately and singularly responsible for myself. I want to be comfortable with complete independence. But I'm not. I cringe when I say this, because 1) I really want to be at ease in self-sufficiency, and 2) I'm not really an *irresponsible* person. I'm just not comfortable with the task of constantly judging, evaluating, and pushing myself to live up to my own crackpot default standards in the absence of a dominant partner.

When I'm alone, it's hard to drive the feardemons away sometimes. What will I do if...? What if I can't fix...? I know I'm good enough to survive and prosper by general standards, but I cannot do it without a tremendous amount of anxiety. And that kind of survival, in my book, is living half a life.

Blah. Sorry if that was a lame downer. ;)




junecleaver -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 11:46:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross
Fraid not, most people in the world have a desire to please others.  Lots of doms and vanillas.
 For some reason, this was not common sense to me.  It wasn't until I got out into the real world that I realized this was true.  It was one of those, "Wait, why are you trying to make ME happy again?  This is all about you."  Because in my fantasy it was all about the other person all the time in every single way.  Someone else who cared about pleasing me knocked my fantasy out of whack. What worked itself out in real life though...well, it's pretty rad when your reality is better than your fantasy.




ownedgirlie -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 11:52:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mymasterssub69

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
Being vulnerable is not being weak (lightbulb).  Needing the love and support of friends and family is not a weakness ('nother lightbulb).  The inability to accept such things - self flaws, the love of others, the need to ask for help - is, however, a weakness.


thank you so much for posting this.

it's one of many bad habits especially the need to ask for help - i rarely do (my "superwoman mode" gets very powerful at times) but with Daddy i'm gradually learning how.



You are welcome.  If it's any consolation, about a year and a half ago I had a complete melt down when I had to actually call someone to help me move a table.  I had injured myself in a fall (sprained left ankle and tore right knee open) and just moved (first time living alone, ever), and had to go to a WEAVE thrift store (Women Escaping A Violent Environment) to buy a table at discount.  But I had no way of getting it to my new little safe haven of an apartment.  The thought of asking for help was deplorable to me - after all, I was the one everyone ELSE called for help, and I always got such a rush out of it.

What I learned this past year is how much LOVE a person can experience, by letting others in.  My feet have barely touched the ground as I am carried through.  It's amazing stuff!  Out of the woodwork were people saying, "Remember when you did such-n-such for me?  Well here I am - what do you need?"  My relationships have become much richer and fuller now that I have allowed myself to become an equal member of them.  I recommend this!! [:D]




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 1:17:00 PM)

It can become almost comical when you get to the point where you get upset because the other person isn't trying to help you out with a problem- when it's YOU who trained them to not try and "help you" and are unable to just relax and let it happen.

I'll post more on responses later, but, let it out people!  The sooner we admit our insecure needs to control and be perfect, the sooner we can laugh at them and stop letting them be in control!




mymasterssub69 -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 3:24:57 PM)

letting others into my inner circle to see me as i really am. it's so terrifying for me because of my desire to be seen as the "rock", the one everyone comes to when they need help. even my mother commented one time after checking out rehab hospitals for my oldest how strong and in control i was during this crisis. what she didn't know that i was crumbling inside ...panicking - near the edge of having a nervous breakdown. i kept telling myself i could do it all - i'm superwoman ...this was nothing ...i can handle a brain injured girl, keep my fabulous job, help provide for the household and still have the dream marriage.

well i had to give up the fabulous job to care for her which meant i couldn't contribute as much to the household thus slowly ending the dream marriage. even while i was at my lowest point, i still refused to ask for help no matter how bad things got for me. as i mentioned before, family and friends would have to force me to take a break. i didn't know how to relax (and i still don't) - i love the feel of the rush i get from overworking and stressing myself out. my strive to maintain that perfection i've set for myself because i'm the "rock".

hopefully one day i shall get to that point when being the "rock" and having perfection doesn't matter anymore. taking baby steps each day as i grow as a daughter/submissive with Daddy. i have so many years of being the "strongest" family member (as well as the other issues He knows i need to let go) in which i need to let go.




Jinger -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 5:06:29 PM)

I am in no way a perfectionist.
The only things I'd like to perfect are my abilities to please someone else, but even then it's a learning process...so I can't really expecty myself to be perfect.




dawntreader -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 7:32:17 PM)

i am a perfectionist, by nature, by birth order, by the way i was raised,  by astrological sign, etc..
 
but my first positive experience with a Dom showed me that perfection was not necessary for the D/s relationship, only the true desire to serve and obey. For me, this was so profound, it was shattering and i embraced it. After 43 years of trying to please the world with perfection, i was finally released from the paradigm. It still brings me to tears...




juliaoceania -> RE: Calling All Perfectionist Submissives (1/20/2007 7:39:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

i am a perfectionist, by nature, by birth order, by the way i was raised,  by astrological sign, etc..
 
but my first positive experience with a Dom showed me that perfection was not necessary for the D/s relationship, only the true desire to serve and obey. For me, this was so profound, it was shattering and i embraced it. After 43 years of trying to please the world with perfection, i was finally released from the paradigm. It still brings me to tears...


Thank you so much for posting that, I can deeply relate




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