RE: How long is aftercare required?

RE: How long is aftercare required? (Full Version)

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NightWindWhisper -> RE: How long is aftercare required? (3/9/2007 9:46:10 AM)
An intense flogging scene almost always generates, if nothing else, an increased level of epinepherine in the sub. Upon being "let down" the excess which is no longer needed can create dizziness, shaking, chills, and can precipitate anxiety or panic attacks. Aftercare would be wrapping the person with a blanket, reassuring, massage...or just quietly lying there. The liver will reabsorb the extra in 5-15 minutes. If the person is no longer shaky, shivering, dizzy and asks to get up and dance, aftercare is done. At the other end of the continuum if the submissive is helf in full suspension and the dominant has not done the proper engineering calculations for attachment points such that the submissive falls and breaks their back, then aftercare is necessary for that person's lifetime. There is also the concept of emotional conflict. Occasionally a scene can touch a submissive's inaccessable past. For instance the scene recalls a prior, forgotten situation where the person was sexually abused. This scenario can be extremely complex and aftercare might be hours of days of sharing and talking, or the person or couple seeking professional help to deal with the new found trauma.

Sinergy -> RE: How long is aftercare required? (3/9/2007 12:32:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NightWindWhisper An intense flogging scene almost always generates, if nothing else, an increased level of epinepherine in the sub. Upon being "let down" the excess which is no longer needed can create dizziness, shaking, chills, and can precipitate anxiety or panic attacks. Aftercare would be wrapping the person with a blanket, reassuring, massage...or just quietly lying there. The liver will reabsorb the extra in 5-15 minutes. If the person is no longer shaky, shivering, dizzy and asks to get up and dance, aftercare is done. At the other end of the continuum if the submissive is helf in full suspension and the dominant has not done the proper engineering calculations for attachment points such that the submissive falls and breaks their back, then aftercare is necessary for that person's lifetime. There is also the concept of emotional conflict. Occasionally a scene can touch a submissive's inaccessable past. For instance the scene recalls a prior, forgotten situation where the person was sexually abused. This scenario can be extremely complex and aftercare might be hours of days of sharing and talking, or the person or couple seeking professional help to deal with the new found trauma. Good points NightWindWhisper, I had issues with the last paragraph. While it is entirely possible that the things happened which you mentioned, I tend to be one of those people who thinks there is a disconnect between cognitive and limbic system response to stimuli. In other words, I am not sure how effective talking about limbic system responses will be since they are in different parts of the brain. If deeper levels of therapy are required, well, I am not a therapist. I will get her to one. I apologize to you, SimplyMichael, your post sounded like your attitude was "gee, if you are still in sub drop after X number of hours, pack your bags and leave." Sequelae from changes to the neurophysiology of a person, and the emotional reactions they have to these, might take longer than a 15 minute hugging under a blanket to take care of. Sinergy

SimplyMichael -> RE: How long is aftercare required? (3/9/2007 8:41:08 PM)
Sinergy, glad we could find common ground because in manys I could see we were not that far apart but somehow I couldn't seem to convery my side. i

bellanotte -> RE: How long is aftercare required? (3/11/2007 7:47:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel quote: ORIGINAL: jadein Hmmmm .. this thread is making me wonder something. Is there a thought that those of us who might need more aftercare for whatever reasons are too needy or somehow "bad" submissives? I mean I understand some people aren't cuddly, touchy, feely... whatever. But for someone like me who hasn't experienced a whole lot as far as real life goes ... subdrop might hit me pretty hard depending on the situation. Am I assuming to much when I think I'd be looked apon badly because I might not feel better by basically dusting my ass off and immediatly serving whomever it might be? I don't think most would look upon them as bad submissives just because they need more extended aftercare. It really does depend on the dynamic between the people in that particular scene. As a dominant I may want to talk about it as long as a few days later, depending on the intensity of the scene. I know one lady that is great right after an intense scene and the drop doesn't hit her until a day or two later, but when it hits her it really hits her hard. It's just something that needs to be discussed with the top or dominant and find out how they feel about it. In my opinion it's just another one of those things that need to match up pretty well. *Jewel* m'Lady Jewel.... I couldn't agree more with your post! In my mind, it completely depends on the individuals involved, as well as whether the scening being done is something that is familiar or new to one of the parties. One of the factors in my situation is my fibromyalgia (which, for all talking about "negotiation," is explained in detail during the negotiation. The fibromyalgia doesn't make it impossible for me to play as many think: it only requires an adjustment or two here or there, which makes the negotiation important. However, I agree with the poster who said one cannot negotiate aftercare for something they have not experienced. HowEver.... they CAN negotiate aftercare based on what they have needed in the past, and if the Dominant is a good one, they will know which adjustments to make. I came back to this thread and am quite honestly astonished at the turn it has taken lol; it no longer seems to be about what aftercare people themselves need, or think others may need, but a "slamming" session against the "needy" types. Aftercare is something everyone has their individual style in, just as they do in play. People take care to make sure play styles match up before they play. I have learned to do so with aftercare as well, and since that time have not had a SINGLE problem with it. This thread wasn't started as an "I need more aftercare" thing (as it seems some have taken it that way.) My Protector asked me to post on this topic as I was feeling guilty about His giving me more aftercare than He usually does, and He was trying to point out to me that it takes different types for different scenes, etc. I must say I am glad that I was talking with Him already; if I had relied solely on this thread I would have interpreted some of the responses as jadein did (where she felt people were looking upon subs who need more than "dusting their ass off" as "bad.") My needs are always discussed with the people I play with, and I have not found it to be a problem once I learned how to discuss the issue; netiher the aftercare that i need, nor the finding of playpartners who are willing to invest such as part of the scene. What I think some forget when this topic is discussed, is that while there -are- submissives who may carry aftercare to extraordinary lengths, there are also Dominants who have that attitude (even in scening), of "roll over and have a cig after the orgasm, to hell with the gal" (and yep, they are out there as well lol) I think ultimately it comes down to striking the right balance.... and as with all scenes, when doing the negotiating.... Communicate Communicate Communicate belle

bellanotte -> RE: How long is aftercare required? (3/11/2007 8:00:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: goodpet If the issue is that the play opened up a feeling or emotion that is taking longer to deal with then that is something different, I think the OP might be feeling and experience new things with the deeper play and needing more time to process things.. This does not happen all the time but once in a while it will. When it seems to be a call for more attention and using 'i need aftercare' as the reason to demand more attention days after a scene, i too question what the real motivation is. That become more a drama queen issue then a real need. Way too often this extended aftercare is from a rather normal scene (for them) but with a Dom they found Hot and desirable. i see them do a heavier, more intense, scene from a good Top, but not as desirable Dom to them, and they need relatively no aftercare.. It seems a bit transparent to me but.. they use the 'everyone is different' motto to justify why they need all the attention days and days after one scene. Whatever, it is obvious to most, but the poor Dom is stuck between a rock and hard place. goodpet..... I have highlighted one point in red. The scene that precipitated this question was quite a bit different for me. It was a much more intense scene than any I had done in the past, and I also had not had any experience with canes or the singletail before, which was two of the toys used. I guess the part of my question that I haven't seen addressed (not picking on you smiles.... just mentioning it in this post so I dont' have to make 3 dozen!), is what about situations like the one posted in red, where, following more intense play and introduction of several implements quite well..... as you said, "then things are different." This is honestly what I would like to get a bit more input on.... I appreciate all the responses, I just feel like people are automatically putting my OP into the "drama/needy/whatever" category here without paying much attention to that issue, that occasionally things ARE different, because of a variety of new factors combined, which I -do- have to process. What might be interesting here is for people to "define" what aftercare is to them. As it seems people are going on two different tracks without fully understanding the other. .

bellanotte -> RE: How long is aftercare required? (3/11/2007 8:04:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile OMG... I do have to jump into the middle of things again. The need for aftercare may vary. Hell there are many times, when there is not real need for it. All depends up the type of activity and how often it's been done, and what somebody is used to. God, if I spanked somebody's ass with a paper bag and it left no marks. Perhaps the first time I did this, and they were a little out of wack about it. I would understand. But If I have already spanked thier ass with a paper bag over the course of a couple of months, and it was still messing with their mental and physical minds to need aftercare at alll.. Give me a break! The amount of aftercare should be 2.5 seconds flat on that one.... I'm using a paper bag to illustrate things from the light weight side of matters... Now, If I whip their ass with a flogger into something which looks like leftover hamburger helper with deep bruises and shit like that... they will need time to heal. God, it's not only a physical thing but a mental thing. as well.. Days of healing. Aftercare I would assume anybody sane would know when somebody needs aftercare or not. When it applies and does not apply. There may be cases when a couple of hours is all that is needed... Damn, all depends upon aftercare after what? Most people don't really think of this type of aftercare as Aftercare when they see the word aftercare. They think in terms of it being Aftercare after serious intense play. There is alway aftercare, somewhere in the middle of things though. be it a couple of mins, hours, day, week... however long. I'm going turn this into some objectfication now. We as people use things and own things. Do we not look after our property, keep it up, clean it, take care of it. Do the things we do to keep everything in working order? If you take better care of actual physical thing then you do your sub/slave, then you should spend some deep time with personal reflection. Thank you WhiplashSmile, for your "jumping in" comments on this thread and the other, I have found them to be excellent.

bellanotte -> RE: How long is aftercare required? (3/11/2007 8:08:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael The type of play I was refering to is what is seen at "most" parties, light flogging stopping well short of drawing blood and or the average spank and tickle sort of play. Doing needle play and endorphine circles and caning to the point of drawing blood does release a lot of endorphins and god knows what but that is clearly not average play at average parties. Michael, Sir, Just an FYI.... the scening in the OP was not what, as you have stated above, you would classify as "average" play. I'm not going into the details because honestly I don't believe it's needed, but it was not average nor public.

ownedgirlie -> RE: How long is aftercare required? (3/11/2007 8:12:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bellanotte I guess the part of my question that I haven't seen addressed (not picking on you smiles.... just mentioning it in this post so I dont' have to make 3 dozen!), is what about situations like the one posted in red, where, following more intense play and introduction of several implements quite well..... as you said, "then things are different." This has happened to me more than once. Only I can process what occurred. He can't do it for me. So he gives me time and space to do so, and if I need his help (which at times I have), then I am to ask for it. Often though, when introduced to something new and extremely intense, he will pat me on the head and tell me how good I've done and that he is proud. Sometimes I can curls up next to him for a few minutes to catch my bearings. But that's the extent of it. The longest it has taken me to process something extreme was about a week and a half, give or take. I wasn't doing well at all so he stepped in to set my mind back in place. quote: What might be interesting here is for people to "define" what aftercare is to them. As it seems people are going on two different tracks without fully understanding the other. I do understand, yet my answer is the same. My Master is not the cuddly-wuddly type. I had to learn how to deal with that. It was difficult, but I did. We are both better off for it - I am much stronger and he knows he can rely on me to take care of myself. But usually after he uses me, I curl up at his feet and massage them. This is our intimate time together. I find that peace overcomes me and he is happy to relax while getting a foot rub. .

bellanotte -> RE: How long is aftercare required? (3/11/2007 8:32:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: bellanotte I guess the part of my question that I haven't seen addressed (not picking on you smiles.... just mentioning it in this post so I dont' have to make 3 dozen!), is what about situations like the one posted in red, where, following more intense play and introduction of several implements quite well..... as you said, "then things are different." This has happened to me more than once. Only I can process what occurred. He can't do it for me. So he gives me time and space to do so, and if I need his help (which at times I have), then I am to ask for it. Often though, when introduced to something new and extremely intense, he will pat me on the head and tell me how good I've done and that he is proud. Sometimes I can curls up next to him for a few minutes to catch my bearings. But that's the extent of it. The longest it has taken me to process something extreme was about a week and a half, give or take. I wasn't doing well at all so he stepped in to set my mind back in place. quote: What might be interesting here is for people to "define" what aftercare is to them. As it seems people are going on two different tracks without fully understanding the other. I do understand, yet my answer is the same. My Master is not the cuddly-wuddly type. I had to learn how to deal with that. It was difficult, but I did. We are both better off for it - I am much stronger and he knows he can rely on me to take care of myself. But usually after he uses me, I curl up at his feet and massage them. This is our intimate time together. I find that peace overcomes me and he is happy to relax while getting a foot rub. . I think this is where we differ on the definition of "aftercare." To me, his availability to you, that you CAN ask him questions, is a continuing form of aftercare. To me there are two types: physical aftercare and processing aftercare. The physical can inclkude needing a blanket for warmth, a drink of water, some sugar or protein to get the blood sugar and nutrients back up to wehre they were supposed to be. I like cuddling as a part of that, but even with that, the "immediate" aftercare has never lasted more than an hour. The "processing" aftercare I think is where my question really is. To me, both his giving you time and space to process, and being there to answer questions if needed, is a continuing form of aftercare. It is just a more distant one, less directly involved smiles. Then there is the "other-focus" aftercare... when my mind (perhaps still processing) turns to him after my immediate physical needs are met. I find as much satisfaction in being able to massage his back, rub his feet, etc, as in longer periods of cuddling, Yet I would still consider it aftercare.... not so much for me but aftercare for him. (Yep, de Doms need it too winks) My question had to do more with the "processing" aftercare.... I hadn't realized til your post that I was defining things differently than some. Thank you for that.

ownedgirlie -> RE: How long is aftercare required? (3/11/2007 8:36:44 PM)
Thank you for your reply, bellanotte. You know, for the longest time I could not see the space he was giving me as after care. I would get upset and whine and complain that he was "abondoning me in my time of need." But the thing is, I NEED that time. Until I have processed everything, I don't even know what I think about things. Over the years, that space has become shorter and shorter. The last major processing took a day and then I was back in form.

bellanotte -> RE: How long is aftercare required? (3/11/2007 8:53:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Thank you for your reply, bellanotte. You know, for the longest time I could not see the space he was giving me as after care. I would get upset and whine and complain that he was "abondoning me in my time of need." But the thing is, I NEED that time. Until I have processed everything, I don't even know what I think about things. Over the years, that space has become shorter and shorter. The last major processing took a day and then I was back in form. NP smiles. And I think you have it exactly right. One of the biggest things for me to learn was th at there are a -million- different forms of aftercare. In a case like yours, where space is the need, giving space is the appropriate response. When a question is there, answering the question would be the response. And it sounds like you both have a situation that works extremely well S. That tends to be somewhat my situation with aftercare too -- After that first bit of the physical needs, I need time to think as much as anything. Yet if I didn't know that One was there to answer those questions, it would bother me. I think that was what made me classify it as aftercare, b/c it was seen that that "reflective time" was a need of mine, but also that I usually -do- have a question or two when it's said and done, whether it be about techniques of play, or a question about the scene itself. Thanks for your responses smiles... they have helped me a great deal.

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