"Switch to organic crops could help poor"

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Vendaval -> "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/7/2007 11:20:02 PM)
"Switch to organic crops could help poor" By NICOLE WINFIELD, Associated Press Writer Sat May 5, 4:51 PM ET " ROME - Organic food has long been considered a niche market, a luxury for wealthy consumers. But researchers told a U.N. conference Saturday that a large-scale shift to organic agriculture could help fight world hunger while improving the environment." http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070505/ap_on_re_eu/un_organic_food;_ylt=ApXTug1YyaMfXDjK9Na6dWRvaA8F

juliaoceania -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/7/2007 11:28:36 PM)
Foods grown with chemical fertilizers grow fast, and look good, but they are not as nutritious as foods grown in more natural ways (like composting or manure). There is more real nutrients in the soil. The thing about pesticides is that it requires more and more pesticide to kill pests. More inputs for the same effects. One of my professors once said that they did a chart of crop loss due to pests since before pesticides first came into use. What they have found is that the amount of crop loss for some crops is back to what is was WITH pesticides as when they were first used. There are more sustainable ways to control pests too, such as using predator prey relationships. Interesting article... thanks for sharing.

deadbluebird -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/7/2007 11:32:59 PM)
no one wants to help the poor, silly.

Vendaval -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/7/2007 11:34:49 PM)
You are most welcome, julia. I remember learning in biology that pests become resistent to pesticides over time, so that in order to kill them we have to use stronger and stronger chemical mixtures. And the nutritional value in home grown, organic, locally grown foods, etc is far superior to the produce that looks good but has no flavor and is covered in wax. Ever try to get the wax off an apple from the grocery store? Yuck! Makes you wonder what else is on the produce and how it effects our bodies.

Sinergy -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/7/2007 11:57:28 PM)
It is more than just pesticide resistance. No pesticide growing = X amount of crops Pesticide growing = X+amount saved by pesticides - cost of pesticides. When you do the cost/benefit analysis, pesticides end up not being cost effective for the farmer. However, farmers are not overly effective at doing analyzing costs and benefits. Sinergy

juliaoceania -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/8/2007 7:06:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy It is more than just pesticide resistance. No pesticide growing = X amount of crops Pesticide growing = X+amount saved by pesticides - cost of pesticides. When you do the cost/benefit analysis, pesticides end up not being cost effective for the farmer. However, farmers are not overly effective at doing analyzing costs and benefits. Sinergy The farmers in my area (Daddy notes the smell of cow doo doo in the air when he has visited me... but seriously, I live in an ag city) refuse to believing that chemicals do not make farming more profitable. Some of the younger ones see it though. So I guess it maybe a generational thing quote: Ever try to get the wax off an apple from the grocery store? Yuck! Makes you wonder what else is on the produce and how it effects our bodies I try very hard to eat organic food

Sanity -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/8/2007 10:05:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy However, farmers are not overly effective at doing analyzing costs and benefits. Sinergy Do you think you're too smart to be a farmer? LOL

FatDomDaddy -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/8/2007 1:18:23 PM)
Here are a few other thing sthat will help the poor... DDT Irradiation of foods More nuclear power plants. and More crude oil refineries.

slaveish -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/8/2007 1:44:24 PM)
Let's just all grow hemp. Great food and clothing source.

selfbnd411 -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/8/2007 1:44:37 PM)
I read this article...it seemed rather silly to me: "While total food production would fall, the amount per crop would be much smaller than previously assumed, and the resulting rise in world food prices could be mitigated by improvements in the land and other benefits, the study found." What a ridiculous assumption to make. If everyone was producing organic crops, there wouldn't be an "organic crop premium." The produce would be no different from anything anyone else was producing. Food prices would go up because crop yields would drop 50%, per the article. But we're to believe that somehow, "improvements in the land and other benefits" would offset the correspondingly high cost of food? What magic "improvements in the land and other benefits?" Maybe ag themed amusement parks, thus employing more people, so they can afford to pay dramatically higher prices for their food? This is the kind of study that makes me wish I was a grad student in ecology or one of the other fluff-sciences. You get a million dollars in funding to study some ridiculous notion such as "do ladybugs contribute to global warming through their body heat?" Pseudoscience...it's the way to go!

domiguy -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/8/2007 1:48:07 PM)
I would help the poor if they were "hotter."

Sinergy -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/8/2007 2:02:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: Sinergy However, farmers are not overly effective at doing analyzing costs and benefits. Sinergy Do you think you're too smart to be a farmer? LOL I make a comment about pesticides and farming, and you decide to turn it into a personal attack, Sanity. How is that working out for you? Sinergy

Aileen68 -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/8/2007 2:35:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy I would help the poor if they were "hotter." Hahahaha

juliaoceania -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/8/2007 2:45:45 PM)
quote: Food prices would go up because crop yields would drop 50%, per the article. You should do some research into Bali and how the Indonesian government tried to increase their rice yields only to make them plummet. Like I said, most people do not know about several ag techniques that preserve arable land, help keep pest populations down. They also do not realize, the more their food is stripped of nutrients, the more they have to eat to make up for it.

Bearlee -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/8/2007 2:48:28 PM)
<sigh> I came to this thread thinking I'd discover more about organic crops. I'm sick of the stupid plastic ones; especially those with the damn HAND on the end of 'em! I'm all forrr.... oh: an apple wood switch? Is a nice leather crop still considered organic? Leather is my favorite... Anyway...who started this? I'm sorely disappointed! <pun intended> B

LaTigresse -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/8/2007 2:52:12 PM)
The bummer is that the farmers that are trying to use less chemicals are getting relatively the same price as the farmers that do not. In addition, the efforts to reduce pesticides here in the midwest are creating a resurgence in pests that had been virtually a none issue for a long time. Example" corn borer......with pesticides no issue, without it is iffy. Unfortunately the damage is not noticable until it is too late and the corn stalks begin collapsing under the weight of the maturing corn. A friend of mine had over 100 acres of corn destroyed last year. With an average of 290 - 300 bushels of corn per acre and corn selling for somewhere around 3.5 - 3.7 dollars a bushel right now.........well you do the math. In addition the fuel required to farm that corn just keeps going up. Most farmers do not WANT to use chemicals, it is the math, profit and loss, that pushes them to do so. Myself, I would be more than willing to pay a little more for my lettuce if it meant I didn't have to worry about chemicals on and in it. Yet there are many people that already complain it is too expensive to eat healthy on a budget. So, I assume that supply and demand pushes some of the "most for the least" methods also.

Vendaval -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/8/2007 5:35:22 PM)
LaT, how plentiful are organic farmers in your area? And what kinds of crops do they grow? We have quite a bit of organic agriculture out here. And the produce is available at the open-air Farmer's Markets once a week in each community. Most of the crops are lettuce, broccoli, strawberries, grapes, celery, etc. that grow best in moderately cool climates.

LaTigresse -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/9/2007 7:00:30 AM)
Vend, it depends upon the concept of crop and farmer. I think there are two varieties. You have the small hobby farmers that grow primarily human food crops. We put in alot of time for not alot of payback. Organic human food farming is labour intensive and your not going to get rich doing it. It is more a labour of love. In addition, unless the person inherited the farm they probably have another source of income to be able to do that type of farming. Then you have what I consider the viable business farmers that grow primarily corn and soybeans. Neither is for human consumption. In addition they usually raise either beef, pork, poultry, sheep. All of which are generally done in a large scale, cost effective manner. Large herds of cattle or sheep, large confinement buildings for pork or poultry with their daily care being as automated as possible. The small, charming family farm that most people envision is mostly a thing of the past. For a farmer to pull a profit they have had to make their business as efficient as possible. There are alot of things today's farmers do that I do not approve of but because I see it first hand on a daily basis I have to say I do understand why they do what they do. I could go on and on for pages with this subject. There are dozens of factors that are not at first visible. Unless a person is involved or in close contact with farming they are just things you would not know or even think of. However they all have a strong impact on farming today.

juliaoceania -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/9/2007 7:11:40 AM)
Before I leave for a few days, I thought I would point out that pesticides have many drawbacks, if one looks at the Gulf of Mexico, they have a dead zone from the accumulation of fertilizers and pesticides that have washed down into the gulf from ag land. Another drawback from large agri-business is that our arable land is a finite resource. Over cropping of the land cannot be made up for by fertilizing it with chemicals... it needs to rest, and if anyone remembers the Great Dust Bowl, we can lose this resource. Mono cropping is another bad idea, which leads to not only land exhaustion, but increases pests. My concern is GM, which does not stay in the land it is planted on, it moves to neighboring land, and infects organic crops. It also affects genetic biodiversity, as does monocropping. We really need to be thinking about these things as a a nation and as a species, because I think we tend to believe that our farmland and ability to produce food is a "given". That could change overnight. Climate change could devastate our agriculture, and unless we have some diversity in our crops, it could impact us even deeper. Now I am off to the train... have a nice week everyone.

LaTigresse -> RE: "Switch to organic crops could help poor" (5/9/2007 8:35:13 AM)
All good points to be sure Julia. The biggest problem is who is willing to fund the changes and take the hits. Are we willing to pay higher taxes and give farmers even more government subsidies than we already do or will we pay more for the end product.........probably both. That being said, if I ever came into a huge amount of money this would be one of my main focuses. There has to be a way to encourage a wider variety of crops, healthier crops (both environmentally and in consumption), and make it financially feasible for our farmers. It amazes me that the quality of food in this country is still lacking in many ways. If I travel out of the midwest I know not to eat beef or pork or I will be hugely disappointed at the flavour. A steak in LA tastes worse than our cheapest ground beef. Don't even ask me to try the corn on the cob anywhere but here........been there done that, and it tasted like I was eating old overcooked field corn. The same goes for seafood here, it all tastes freezer burnt. Even in the best restaurants. The only time I will buy fresh strawberries are when they are in season here, otherwise they really don't taste like strawberries. I guess we are lucky to have what we do, I am still surprised the quality just isn't always there.

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