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"Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/8/2007 11:17:00 AM   
Vendaval


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"Kansas Governor: Tornado exposed Guard holes"
 
By JOHN MILBURN, Associated Press Writer
Tue May 8, 5:44 AM ET

" TOPEKA, Kan. - Gov. Kathleen Sebelius says the war in Iraq has exposed holes in domestic disaster response like the one currently under way in tornado-ravaged Kansas.

The governor said about half the state's National Guard trucks are in Iraq, equipment that would be helpful in removing debris. Sebelius, who asked the       Pentagon in December to replenish lost resources, said the state also is missing a number of well-trained personnel.

"I don't think there is any question if you are missing trucks, Humvees and helicopters that the response is going to be slower," Sebelius said. "The real victims here will be the residents of Greensburg, because the recovery will be at a slower pace." "

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070508/ap_on_re_us/severe_weather_guard

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/8/2007 12:12:02 PM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		Imagine, the force that was created to protect the homeland.........what if they were actually used IN the homeland rather than as substitute full time military personel in a war that should have never happened to begin with.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Vendaval)
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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/8/2007 4:39:46 PM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		I heartily agree, LaT.  The National Guard and the Coast Guard should be here protecting
the homeland and doing their duties in times of floods, fires, tornados, hurricans, earthquakes and the like.
 
IMO, we are more vunerable to attack within our borders by having the National Guard troops
and their equipment sent out of the country.   A very sad state of affairs, indeed.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/8/2007 4:52:43 PM   
Sinergy


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First New Orleans.  Now Kansas.

I wonder what Brownback (R-Kansas) and Roberts (R-Kansas), Moran (R-Kansas) and Tiahrt (R-Kansas), are planning on telling their constituency was the reason for not voting to override AnencephalyBoy's veto of the bill to bring the troops home was.

I hope they kept their resume up to date.

Sinergy

p.s.  For those who think I am making a political statement capitalizing on tragedy, I have been saying for 5 years that the place for our national guard was in our own country keeping people safe.  Please do everybody a favor and not attack me for pointing out the obvious logical flaw in the reasoning skills of the Republicans in Congress.

p.p.s  If I was a religious person, I would imagine Kansas being wiped out by tornados was God's attempt to show those cretins how dangerous it is to let Brownback be involved in politics.  Please do not ask me to source this idea.



_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/8/2007 5:02:28 PM   
Sanity


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy
p.s.  For those who think I am making a political statement capitalizing on tragedy...


It's so fucking weird that you would say that. It's like you read everybodys' mind or something...

quote:


p.p.s  If I was a religious person, I would imagine Kansas being wiped out by tornados was God's attempt to show those cretins how dangerous it is to let Brownback be involved in politics.  Please do not ask me to source this idea.


You mean you don't bow at the altar of Liberalism, Sinergy?

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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/9/2007 12:45:14 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

It's so fucking weird that you would say that. It's like you read everybodys' mind or something...



I beg to differ.

What is weird is that you think everybody thinks like you do.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/9/2007 5:08:16 AM   
farglebargle


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Status: offline 		The White House is in damage control mode, and is saying that since the Governor of Kansas didn't request help, how could they know to send help?

The problem is, for the White House, the Governor of Kansas has been making her complaints known for the past 2 years!

You know, before Rove comes up with some lie, he REALLY should use "The Google" to see if it would even be BELIEVABLE.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/9/2007 6:07:45 AM   
Archer


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Status: offline 		Oh now the idea that the National Guard is composed of Combat Arms troops is Bush's fault???
A quick check of the units of the Kansas National Guard show me that it is composed mostly of Infantry, armor and Artillery units, big very specialized units for disaster response.

The idea of "Total Army" being composed of over half available combat units being National Guard dates back decades pre Regan years actually. If the policy you want is for national guard units to have the primary mission of disaster response then really that is the policy you should protest. The PRIMARY mission of the National Guard is Combat reinforcement.
That's what they are trained and equiped to do.

They have only been a deployable asset for 30 or 40 years you'd think that the governors office would have a flippin plan for what to do if they were actually busy with their primary mission and a natural disaster happened. It's not like it's never been deployed before records show Bosnia, Kosavo, Dessert Storm, and even Viet Nam era deployments. Seems to me there might have been a tornado or two in Kansas during those deployments.

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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/9/2007 10:46:39 AM   
farglebargle


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Status: offline 		Get back to me when Congress has declared War, and then MAYBE the National Guard SHOULD BE used to reinforce Combat troops.

Until then? They simply shouldn't be deployed.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/9/2007 11:13:48 AM   
Archer


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Status: offline 		Seperate issue fargle, the issue is they are a deployable asset, they have been deployed several times over the past 30-40 years, and yet the plan seems not to have been made with any thought that a tornado or other disaster might happen when they were deployed.

The argument on the table is not should they have been deployed it is should the Governor have planned for disasters happening when they were deployed for whatever reason, based on the fact that there are documented occurances of tornados happening in Kansas within the past 20 years while their NG troops were deployed.

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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/9/2007 12:28:41 PM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

The argument on the table is not should they have been deployed it is should the Governor have planned for disasters happening when they were deployed for whatever reason, based on the fact that there are documented occurances of tornados happening in Kansas within the past 20 years while their NG troops were deployed.



Dont you people who support AnencephalyBoy get tired of defending his idiotic policies and doing everything within your power to find somebody else to blame?

I was not under the impression the Governor of Kansas had the power to prevent the national guard in their state from being called up for AnencephalyBoy's idiotic military action.

As farglebargle pointed out, we are technically not at war.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Archer)
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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/9/2007 12:46:33 PM   
Archer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

The argument on the table is not should they have been deployed it is should the Governor have planned for disasters happening when they were deployed for whatever reason, based on the fact that there are documented occurances of tornados happening in Kansas within the past 20 years while their NG troops were deployed.



Dont you people who support AnencephalyBoy get tired of defending his idiotic policies and doing everything within your power to find somebody else to blame?

I was not under the impression the Governor of Kansas had the power to prevent the national guard in their state from being called up for AnencephalyBoy's idiotic military action.

As farglebargle pointed out, we are technically not at war.

Sinergy


Ah wonderfull you do realise that the decission to make National Guard units Combat arms was in large part lobbied for by the Governors of the various states when they shifted to this policy 40 years or so ago.
The fact that the NG is made up of Combat Arms units is a FACT not a policy set up by Bush. Had the decission been made 40 years ago to make the US Army Reserves the Combat reinforcement arm of the "Total Army" then this issue would never have come up.

I'm not defending the deployment I am deflecting the assertation that the deployment right or wrong is to blame for the slowed response.
I conject that considering that the National Guard of Kansas has in fact had to respond to disasters at reduced strength multiple times over the past 30-40 years, the Governor knew that the deployment would in all probability mean that the disaster response capability would be reduced and made alternate plans for the year for trucks, and generators.

That failure to adjust the plan holds some level of responsibility. The equipment was not taken out of the state last month, I would bet that it's been gone well over a year. Plenty of time to have made other arrangements.
I certainl wouldn't have offered up such an argument to my boss that the equipment I knew I would likely need last year was still out of the country. Especially when nothing indicating that the equipment would be back in time for this year has been even remotely possible.






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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/9/2007 1:11:24 PM   
farglebargle


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From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		"The argument on the table is not should they have been deployed it is should the Governor have planned for disasters happening when they were deployed for whatever reason,"

I wonder what the procedure is for a Governor to "Un-Federalize" their State militia?



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/9/2007 1:12:37 PM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		I wonder where the funding for that is supposed to be coming from........state or federal? I need to ask.

Okay, I just asked those I know in the know........and since the equipment for the National Guard is federally funded (it comes from the Pentagon).......placing blame upon the Governor of Kansas is rediculous. For blame, you can go back to those that create the budgets at a federal level.

Unless of course Kansas can order and say "charge it"....

In addition......sorry getting this as I type...........since the Pentagon determines what each state gets they also reserve the right to call the state and take back said equipment. Which is why Kansas did not/does not, have the equipment that they need.

Sorry to pop your defense of the federal government.


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 5/9/2007 1:18:47 PM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/9/2007 1:15:15 PM   
Archer


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Status: offline 		They have an unfederalized state militia in addition to their National Guard.

The State Defense force is a military entity authorized by both the State Code of Kansas and Executive Order. The State Defense Force (SDF) is the state’s authorized militia and assumes the state mission of the Kansas National Guard in the event the Guard is mobilized. The SDF comprises retired active and reserve military personnel and selected professional persons who volunteer their time and talents in further service to their state.

So they did plan for mobilizations seems they just did a crappy job of planning.

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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/9/2007 1:18:10 PM   
farglebargle


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Status: offline 		"The SDF comprises retired active and reserve military personnel and selected professional persons who volunteer their time and talents in further service to their state."

I read this crackpottery, and am more convinced than ever that the National Guard needs to be disbanded.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/9/2007 1:27:25 PM   
Archer


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Status: offline 		Wouldn't bother me at all if they changed the "Total Force" Policy and made them non deployable assets. But just try to sell that to the Governors when the funding for National Guard and all their equipment has to come out of State Budgets instead of being largely subsidized by the Federal Government.

Certainly would make the budget process interesting at the state level.
Budget Item 398 Kansas State Budget-------------------------100 M1A1 Main Battle Tanks

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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/9/2007 2:37:57 PM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		If you can get our federal government to create a budget to build and maintain a full time armed forces to keep on standby for all those, just in case, overseas military games we seem to be so fond of creating..........go for it.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Archer)
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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/9/2007 4:59:37 PM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		Archer,
 
How many states have a state militia in addition to the National Guard? 
This is the first I have heard of it.  And you say these are funded by the individual states. 
Could you please provide more details.
 
Thank you,

 
Vendaval



_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: "Kansas Gov. : Tornado exposed Guard holes" - 5/9/2007 5:09:45 PM   
farglebargle


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Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		On paper, likely all of them.

In Practice? Your guess as to their readiness is as good as anyones.



_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

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