Femdom Courtship

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

Femdom Courtship

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Mistress >> Femdom Courtship

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Femdom Courtship - 5/8/2007 4:22:39 PM

DrPleasure

Posts: 74
Joined: 9/18/2004
Status: offline

I had a relationship with a woman last year. She was my ideal partner in my mind. Kinky, beautiful, exciting, fun.... When we first started dating, it was definitely all about me in my mind. When I didn't get my way, I'd be upset. It was obvious and things didn't work out. But, we did enjoy each other's company a lot so we remained friends. In the course of the friendship, I fell deeply in love with her. At that point, I was hooked and I would have done anything she asked with pleasure. If she were to accept me at this point, I would have been the ideal sub.

This is kind of reminded me of how "traditional" courtship between men and women usually plays out. At first, the man chases the woman and does all these nice things for her. Sometimes, a woman may even give a man a chance that she's not too thrilled about because he's demonstrated that he really likes her and has a lot of offer. She opens herself to him and starts liking him. Once she is "hooked" so to speak, the situation sometimes reverses and now the woman is more emotionally attached to the man than during the courtship process. (I know I'm making gross generalizations here, but I'm just trying to establish a framework)

My experience last year made me think that perhaps the courtship process is reversed in the BDSM femdom community. Let's face it, for most male subs, it's all about them at first. So maybe the femdom will give him what he wants and "serve his needs" so to speak. But, once the submale realizes that no one can quite push his buttons like his femdom, then he starts to become more submissive and supplicating. The femdom leverages this to exert her will over his.

What do you all think about this? I think this for me is a lot more realistic than giving power to someone else right off the bat. But, I'm not naturally submissive and I am also pretty alpha in the vanilla world. Like a horse, I think I need to be broken to get the submissive out of me but once its out, I think domme will be pretty happy with what she has on her hands.

Profile

Post #: 1

RE: Femdom Courtship - 5/8/2007 4:45:12 PM

GuidingLite

Posts: 233
Joined: 12/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DrPleasure

When we first started dating, it was definitely all about me in my mind.

<<<<ahem>>> You would make a great bottom to a female dominant, I mean female top.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DrPleasure When I didn't get my way, I'd be upset.

brattybottom

quote:

ORIGINAL: She opens herself to him and starts liking him. Once she is "hooked" so to speak, the situation sometimes reverses and now the woman is more emotionally attached to the man than during the courtship process.

interesting generalize.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Let's face it, for most male subs, it's all about them at first.

Naw, its that way for bottoms. The needs and likings of a subby man is totally diff.

quote:

ORIGINAL: So maybe the femdom will give him what he wants and "serve his needs" so to speak.

you mean maybe the fem top will service the bottoms needs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: What do you all think about this?

U would make a great bottom. just be real that its all about you in your mind and youll find yourself a good fem top.

quote:

ORIGINAL: But, I'm not naturally submissive and I am also pretty alpha in the vanilla world.

like wit most subbies they only R submissive with thier fem dom and r APLHA in vanilla world.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Like a horse, I think I need to be broken to get the submissive out of me but once its out, I think domme will be pretty happy with what she has on her hands.

(in reply to DrPleasure)

Profile

Post #: 2

RE: Femdom Courtship - 5/8/2007 6:03:09 PM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GuidingLite

It is not clear to me how much you approve or disapprove of bottoms and tops. In any case, out of regard for bottoms and tops who read the forums or are otherwise part of the BDSM crowd, I think each is a valid D/s archetype. Sure, it has meaning for compatibility but neither is wrong.

Furthermore, I think a person who seeks acts of submission and is only focused on what he wants is not the same as a bottom. He may instead be a selfish submissive. To the OP, this statement is a general statement and is not intended to make reference to you.

I think it is fair for a submissive to care about what activities or aspects of D/s appeal to him, and for this submissive to expect that his wants are part of the equation. Thus, there is a place for compatibility.

There are activities that I enjoy as a submissive not because they put me in some form of advantage but because to me they symbolize submission. That is, I like them because they are submissive activities. I think each person has rituals of dominance and submission with which they connect. The more there is overlap between what a domme sees as rituals of D/s and what I see as rituals of D/s, the more compatible we are. I would find limited interest in a relationship with weak overlap of this type, for it would suggest to me weak D/s compatibility.

If a submissive should care only about what the domme enjoys and without regard to what he enjoys, then every submissive should be content in a relationship that involves no direct contact and only communication by text.

Cheers,

Sea

< Message edited by undergroundsea -- 5/8/2007 6:30:19 PM >

(in reply to GuidingLite)

Profile

Post #: 3

RE: Femdom Courtship - 5/8/2007 6:17:51 PM

undergroundsea

Posts: 2400
Joined: 6/27/2004
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DrPleasure
My experience last year made me think that perhaps the courtship process is reversed in the BDSM femdom community. Let's face it, for most male subs, it's all about them at first. So maybe the femdom will give him what he wants and "serve his needs" so to speak. But, once the submale realizes that no one can quite push his buttons like his femdom, then he starts to become more submissive and supplicating. The femdom leverages this to exert her will over his.

What do you all think about this? I think this for me is a lot more realistic than giving power to someone else right off the bat. But, I'm not naturally submissive and I am also pretty alpha in the vanilla world. Like a horse, I think I need to be broken to get the submissive out of me but once its out, I think domme will be pretty happy with what she has on her hands.

While I find it interesting to think about whether or how the traditional sex roles are reversed in Fm, I do not fit the theory you describe. Each idea, as you recognize, is a generalization and may describe some people. However, it does not strike me a general pattern.

I agree that what you are willing to do for someone is related to how you feel about that person and this feeling can both deepen or weaken as the two get to know each other. I also agree that the satisfaction each partner brings to the other with respect to D/s positively counts in the overall balance of how each feels about the other, and what each is willing to do for the other.

Cheers,

Sea

(in reply to DrPleasure)

Profile

Post #: 4

RE: Femdom Courtship - 5/8/2007 7:32:38 PM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

I am not sure about typical vanilla dating rituals. While I have gone on vanilla dates in my life it's been so long that I can't really speak intelligently about how it works as far as a huge generalization. I do know how I did it and I fully recognize that being who I am I might not have been indicative of a typical vanilla relationship. Not much has changed, though. When I meet a potential partner my main concern is for me. I mean beyond the niceties and a general wish that most people in my world are happy and healthy. However, when thinking of getting serious about someone I look at how compatible we are. Not yet knowing very much about the other person I concentrate on my own needs and wants. I then use those as a basis for starting a dialog with someone to see how good a fit they may be with me. I bet a lot of vanillas think the same way.

I would tend not to do things just to please the other person in hopes they will stick around. Quite the opposite. In fact, it is usually only after getting to know and care for someone that I would be willing to make any concessions at all beyond those that are fairly trivial. The more I care about someone, the more willing I am to explore other aspects and forms of play that may be intended to specifically please my partner. I would not, however, do anything that I simply would not like to do.

I would suspect that it is much the same for many people of all orientations. Their willingness to please the other can grow or detract based upon how much they care for the person over time, much as Sea stated. I would doubt very many fem doms give the sub what he wants with no consideration toward their own wishes with a thought that he will get hooked and use that as leverage. Most fem doms I know would tell the sub to take a hike if they had a temper tantrum after not getting their way much the same as yours did. If however, you enjoyed the same acts that's a wonderfully happy coincidence and proves a certain amount of compatibility but I would not read into that compatibility that she is doing it to please you.

As far as a general Fm heory, I think it falls short based on my own experiences and of those with whom I am associated.

For your specific case, I'm not sure the theory holds water either. You had compatibility issues. You got upset when not getting your way. The relationship ended. Did the relationship end because the fem dom was not getting what she wanted? Probably but only she could answer that.

Now you want to do anything for her presumably because you now have deeper feelings for her. Well that's all well and good but I doubt said dominant planned it that way. I think it has more to do with the feelings you have for her than any grand scheme she had of pleasing you without regard to her own needs then dumping you when you did not comply with the idea you'd come back more willing than ever.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to undergroundsea)

Profile

Post #: 5

RE: Femdom Courtship - 5/9/2007 6:49:57 AM

DrPleasure

Posts: 74
Joined: 9/18/2004
Status: offline

Let me just clarify something. People seem to be pinking apart small details without discussion the critical issue. Apologies if I was unclear in my original post. First and foremost, I understand that these are gross generalizations that each relationship is unique and doesn't follow a typical pattern. But, there are definitely situations which happen in the way that I describe. Also, when I mention that a domme does something to please her partner, I don't mean it in such a Draconian way where she's deliberately trying to get him "hooked" in order to manipulate him. But, when two people start dating and like each other, they try to please the other person and make them happy. In good relationships, this dynamic often continues. With this understanding, my question is:

In your experience, did the Femdom relationships that you've had start immediately with a D/S dynamic? Or, is it something that developed over time as a result of one partner being naturally dominant and the other being naturally submissive?

To GuidingLite: I do believe you're right. As my understanding of BDSM labels increases, I am starting to believe that I am a bottom. I've only aimed to please when I am infatuated or in love. But, what person doesn't aim to please in that situation, right?

To MsKat: D/S had little to do with our relationship. I've never bottomed to her except the first night we met and did a scene together. Then, it was vanilla dating and sex. I was speaking more in terms of generalizations. If she wanted me to be submissive in the beginning, I probably would have resisted. If she asked later, then I may have considered it.

(in reply to MsKatHouston)

Profile

Post #: 6

RE: Femdom Courtship - 5/9/2007 7:25:46 AM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

In your experience, did the Femdom relationships that you've had start immediately with a D/S dynamic?

Yes. It is all I am looking for and all I will accept.

quote:

Or, is it something that developed over time as a result of one partner being naturally dominant and the other being naturally submissive?

The intensity and type of play has developed over time but the dynamic was D/s from day one, always.

quote:

Then, it was vanilla dating and sex. I was speaking more in terms of generalizations.

Was she looking for D/s? I understand what you are saying about generalizations and I would allow that in some D/s situations that does occur. But what I am saying is that it does not happen very often in my experience. More times than not the female dominant knows what she wants and is pretty rigid in that. She might soften some of the edges after knowing someone for awhile but not during the initial courting stages. I know that I and many people I know tend to be much more unyielding, regardless of what the potential partner wants to establish the authority and mindset so it is exactly how we want it.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to DrPleasure)

Profile

Post #: 7

RE: Femdom Courtship - 5/9/2007 9:18:45 AM

DrPleasure

Posts: 74
Joined: 9/18/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Was she looking for D/s?

No. She definitely wasn't. In fact, I think it was when I started supplicating and trying hard to please her that I turned her off. In retrospect, she was a latex fetishist on the rebound and looking to party and I am just a kinky dude looking for something more serious.

(in reply to MsKatHouston)

Profile

Post #: 8

RE: Femdom Courtship - 5/9/2007 9:42:53 AM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

When dating women, femdoms being no exception, its always best to lead with your own strengths and what you bring to the table.

Also, the better you know and understand your submissive side (limits and capabilities), the better you will be able to present to a FEMDOM.

Be yourself, do what comes natural, pay attention to the cues. (There are more similarities between vanilla and femdom dating than disimilarities.)

Remember too, that subs teach and expand the horizon of FEMDOMS, just the way FEMDOMs do the same for subs.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 5/9/2007 9:48:11 AM >

(in reply to DrPleasure)

Profile

Post #: 9

RE: Femdom Courtship - 5/9/2007 10:38:19 AM

pixelslave

Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DrPleasure

In your experience, did the Femdom relationships that you've had start immediately with a D/S dynamic? Or, is it something that developed over time as a result of one partner being naturally dominant and the other being naturally submissive?

I've had both kinds. After realizing that I am a submissive, I've only sought out relationships with women who identified as dominants. Some of my earlier relationships were with women that I'd say were more domineering than dominant. To me, there's a difference.

quote:

To GuidingLite: I do believe you're right. As my understanding of BDSM labels increases, I am starting to believe that I am a bottom. I've only aimed to please when I am infatuated or in love. But, what person doesn't aim to please in that situation, right?

I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that you're a bottom before spending time examining your inner motivations. A submissive isn't necessarily submissive to all women. I only submit to one woman and that is the woman who I call "Mistress". All other women I see as my equal and not as women who I am to submit to. So for you to say that you only "aimed to please" when you are "infatuated or in love" makes perfect sense to me. If I don't have feelings for a woman, I have no desire to submit to her. My submission grows as my trust for a woman grows, which to me, can only occur as I develop stronger feelings for her.

In my experience dating Femdoms, in the beginning, it has been much like dating a vanilla woman. As the relationship grew & developed, so did the D/s aspects of the relationship. I've never been in a relationship with a Femdom where we jumped headfirst right into the D/s aspects of it. That took time and familiarity; developing as we both got to know each other.

Good topic for discussion!

- pixel

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to DrPleasure)

Profile

Post #: 10

RE: Femdom Courtship - 5/9/2007 10:40:34 AM

pixelslave

Posts: 1444
Joined: 8/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

When dating women, femdoms being no exception, its always best to lead with your own strengths and what you bring to the table.

Also, the better you know and understand your submissive side (limits and capabilities), the better you will be able to present to a FEMDOM.

Be yourself, do what comes natural, pay attention to the cues. (There are more similarities between vanilla and femdom dating than disimilarities.)

Remember too, that subs teach and expand the horizon of FEMDOMS, just the way FEMDOMs do the same for subs.

Have to agree 100% with everything you've said cloudboy!

- pixel

_____________________________

Chivalry isn't dead! It's for those who have it in their hearts & are willing to be taught. It's a way of life, a code of honor; this one's armor still needs some polishing!

(in reply to cloudboy)

Profile

Post #: 11

RE: Femdom Courtship - 5/9/2007 12:33:30 PM

DrPleasure

Posts: 74
Joined: 9/18/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that you're a bottom before spending time examining your inner motivations. A submissive isn't necessarily submissive to all women. I only submit to one woman and that is the woman who I call "Mistress". All other women I see as my equal and not as women who I am to submit to. So for you to say that you only "aimed to please" when you are "infatuated or in love" makes perfect sense to me. If I don't have feelings for a woman, I have no desire to submit to her. My submission grows as my trust for a woman grows, which to me, can only occur as I develop stronger feelings for her.

In my experience dating Femdoms, in the beginning, it has been much like dating a vanilla woman. As the relationship grew & developed, so did the D/s aspects of the relationship. I've never been in a relationship with a Femdom where we jumped headfirst right into the D/s aspects of it. That took time and familiarity; developing as we both got to know each other.

Good topic for discussion!

- pixel

Interesting... thanks for sharing.

(in reply to pixelslave)

Profile

Post #: 12

RE: Femdom Courtship - 5/9/2007 2:02:47 PM

GuidingLite

Posts: 233
Joined: 12/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DrPleasure

To GuidingLite: I do believe you're right. As my understanding of BDSM labels increases, I am starting to believe that I am a bottom.

Cool u admit it. alot guys wnat 2 call themselves submissive when theyre really "a bottom". if your a submissive you would want to serve her both in and out of the bedroom. if you only care to obey her in sexualy related stuff and areas only than your better off looking for a top service girl because most femdoms i know in relationships take it all the way and run the show and have the final say in all areas in sexual AND nonsexual areas.

aint nothing wrong with being a bottom. jsut dont look for a femdom for a girlfriend or wife becoz u wont be happy living under her control and she wont be happy wit u only obeying in the bedrom.

aint nothin worse then a girl claiming shes a sub when she really a bottom. the two are totally differnet and its insulting to the submissives who are truly submissive in the mind and heart and soul not just the sexual organs and interests.

bottoms should get it straight and not claim to be a submisive for some cool kinky fetish ideal when they are not.

Some bottoms
TRY TO CONVENIENTLY REINVENT
the world "submissive" just to appease their own personal egos. but they are not submissives. respect the traditional terms and be a bottom a be proud.

(in reply to DrPleasure)

Profile

Post #: 13

RE: Femdom Courtship - 5/9/2007 2:30:22 PM

SDFemDom4cuck

Posts: 2809
Joined: 5/23/2005
From: P'burgh PA
Status: offline

quote:

In your experience, did the Femdom relationships that you've had start immediately with a D/S dynamic? Or, is it something that developed over time as a result of one partner being naturally dominant and the other being naturally submissive?

I was just discussing this recently with a fellow Dominant and realized that even the one relatively vanilla relationship (well as close to vanilla as I have ever gotten) I had all have carried some aspects of D/s and/or cuckolding. I'm pretty straightforward about what I expect and want in a relationship from the beginning. It's simple, I want what I want and settling for less isn't going to satisfy me in any way.

So I would say they've all started with a D/s or cuckolding dynamic. I'm not going to be happy with anything else so why should I bother with vanilla to begin with?

_____________________________

Ms Jo

She dealt her pretty words like Blades -
How glittering they shone -
And every One unbared a Nerve
Or wantoned with a Bone -

I want a sensitive man - one who'll cry when I hit him.

(in reply to DrPleasure)

Profile

Post #: 14