Top/Bottom perceptions (Full Version)

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BondageTopJere -> Top/Bottom perceptions (5/8/2007 8:27:25 PM)

I've been floating around these forums for a month a so now and have seen some very thoughtful and entertaining questions about what BDSM is to various people and what it is they want out of it.

But I can't help but feel that many of the profiles I've read seem to indicate an apparent interest in the D/s dynamic when their isn't.  While I know lots of people here are into the full 24/7 D/s, what about those that aren't?  I mean, my profile name really does indicate my preferences, bondage and Topping.  I've only one area I consider myself Dom and even that one isn't an all the time thing.  But often when I read profiles, it seem other are hesistant to identify themselves primarily as a bedroom Dom/Top or a bedroom sun/bottom.  This paticular phenomenom extend even to the forums, where someone who calls themselves a full submissive or Dominant has an entirely different flavor to their posts.

I'm simply wondering if this is a case of "adaptive" desires, and many people are simply not expressing what it really is they want out of fear of being labeled a player, fake, wanna-be, "do me" top or bottom.  I've seen a lot of topics in the Ask the Mistress/Master forums about subs who are "do me" subs, and about as many in the ask the submissive forum expressing the same problem with "do me" Doms.  I know it takes all types and sizes, but so often I do often feel a negativity towards tops/bottoms as "greedy" people who are only in it for the sex.



velvetears -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/8/2007 8:42:54 PM)

i think many perhaps don't know where exactly they fit in so they leave it a bit open.  It would be hard to label yourself a bedroom dom or sub and then change it later and have people be that understanding, would be my guess. Many also talk of not putting to much stock into a label so maybe it's just not that important to identify themselves so specifically.



hisannabelle -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/8/2007 8:46:29 PM)

greetings jere,

tops and bottoms are no more greedy people who are in it for the sex than slaves and masters are greedy for being in it for the constant authority exchange.

we're all in it because we are fulfilled by it; otherwise we'd eventually do something else. being fulfilled by a constant authority exchange is no less or more valid than being fulfilled by an occasional scene.

annabelle.



aldompdx -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/8/2007 8:47:41 PM)

Some are discovering who they are and what they really prefer. There may also be a degree of group psychology.



sublimelysensual -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/8/2007 8:52:01 PM)

I don't presume to speak for everyone, nor am I trying to speak in generalities, but my experience has been that there is a negative perception of people who identify as simply tops or bottoms, that they aren't "up to par" because that's the only part of lifestyle they participate in, or whatever. My personal inclination is to be more upset with people who aren't honest about what their wants/needs are.. to me, your kink is your kink and as long as you enjoy it, screw what anyone else thinks, but I do think there is some stigma floating around concerning tops/bottoms, and that may prevent people from identifying themselves as such. I also agree with velvetears that some just may not know exactly where they belong yet, so maybe a mixture of the two?
 
just my thoughts..
-a



ICGsteve -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/8/2007 9:11:39 PM)

Now that BDSM has gotten so buzz worthy a lot of people come around for kicks, they are not  into power games but what to be where the action is. Some are into power games for the thrill, to build passion in their relationships, or because they want to learn about power or themselves, but they are not primarily Dom or sub-they are a somewhat even split. Those who can alternate can be switches, those who are even all the time are neither Dom, sub or switch. Power must have two poles to dance around, those who are not either Dom or sub at least part of the time eventually figure out that BDSM has nothing to offer them and they move on. Until that time that hang around  confused because they want to play but they don't understand the game. .



SireKane -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/8/2007 9:49:41 PM)

The majority of women on this site identify themselves as slaves or submissives, very few  refer to themslves as bottoms. Most submissive women want Dominant men, most slaves want a Masters. Neither are generally looking for a Top. Identifying yourself as a Top decreases your chances of getting responses.

Kane

Kane



spanklette -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/8/2007 10:31:34 PM)

I have found that the majority of the profiles are looking for long term situations...in which listing as a Dominant or submissive increases your chances of finding someone who is interested.
 
But, as a submissive I have Topped...didn't change my orientation, just my activity. And, when attending real life events, I have found more people that say that they are a Top or bottom versus online where people tend to feel like there is some sort of hierarchy.
 
That's just my take...and I'm tired, so I hope it was coherent.[:D]



BondageTopJere -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/8/2007 10:34:09 PM)

Sublimelysensual & Velvetears

I can understand that the "not understanding who you are" bit would be responsible for people looking down on people who refers to themselves as Top/bottoms.  Although to my way of thinking, someone unsure of what it is they one would be MORE likely to call themselves a D/s or a M/sl , not a T/b.  If someones got to know themselves well enough to be at least somewhat confident all they really want is bedroom D/s and is willing to say thats all they want, it likely follows that that may in fact be true.

Hisannabelle

Despite the "everything is valid " approach that many believe, its is also at least partially true that there is a unconsious notion in the back of mosts minds that somehow "Master" equates to "More and better" than a Dom, much less a Top.   That somehow by referring to oneself as a Top, it gets unconsciously translated to" less than a Dom, less than a Master", when many profess to wanting more than  that or they are unsure of what it is they want in the frist place..  No matter what group you go around, theres going to be some stratification, BDSM doens't get a free pass on that one.  Go take an in-depth look at any special interest group and that pops up.  If you don't profess to liking the 60's version of Star Trek and only that version, in some peoples minds that equates to you not actually liking star trek (Side note, i hate 60's trek, too corny)

SireKane

quote:


The majority of women on this site identify themselves as slaves or submissives, very few  refer to themslves as bottoms. Most submissive women want Dominant men, most slaves want a Masters. Neither are generally looking for a Top. Identifying yourself as a Top decreases your chances of getting responses.
 

All too true sadly enough, and is why I, and I suspect others, have been hesistant to admit to themselves and to others have been hesistant to call themselves Tops/bottoms.  Calling yourself  a Top/bottom is almost a self-defeating admission to make.

I think the biggest problem is that when people see Top/bottom, they see someone who is ONLY interested in sex, period.  That by saying your a Top or bottom that you have no interest in the rest of the person outside of the bedroom, and nothing that person says or does will convince others any different.  That the Top/bottom has no interest in a relationship, in growing with another, and could care less if they want to stay or go.  That saying Top/bottom can translate as "Kinky sex addict", only in it for the physical pleasures, and not the emotional ones.

BS I say.  I don't have to eat the whole damn birthday cake in order to prove I like cake, one piece does me just fine.  I think many of the issues that are experienced on the site by many will cease and desist when a lot people finally realize all they wants just one peice too.



juliaoceania -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/8/2007 10:38:52 PM)

I think you are on to something, there seems to be a heirarchy of sorts.. works like this

Master/Slave 
(bestest)
_
_
_
Dominant/Submissive
_
_
_
Top/Bottom
(self described)
_
_
_
Everyone Else
(HNG, wannabes, fakes. do mes, wankers, bedroom submissives, service tops, brats, SAMs, sometimes Switches)
 
It is not a blantant disregard, but one could get the impression that this heirarchy exists. I think part of it is because people just want to be part time, or however you want to label yourself, do not post here because they do not identify with the material posted by others.
 
I do not care for the labels, they are only meaningful to me in talking one on one with people as individuals. I hope I get to read some interesting threads from those that are not 24-7.



spanklette -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/8/2007 10:42:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

 I hope I get to read some interesting threads from those that are not 24-7.



You probably already do.[8D]



juliaoceania -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/8/2007 10:44:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spanklette

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

 I hope I get to read some interesting threads from those that are not 24-7.



You probably already do.[8D]


Let me put it this way, threads about being a bedroom sub or dom.. more clarity.



spanklette -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/8/2007 10:48:53 PM)

Aha! Now I see...people who freely admit to being a bedroom Dom or sub. There was actually one in the ask a sub forum a few days back, I think.
 
You know, now that I think about this a little more...I wonder if it's because bedroom Doms and subs don't feel the need to reach out to others in a forum such as this being that their "main" relationship is more vanilla, in nature. Just a wandering thought...



BondageTopJere -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/8/2007 10:58:30 PM)

Beginning to feel that I'm the exception to the "rule". 

Although I've been doing some rapid swings with self-identification recently, so we'll see what happens next week,[:D] but I'm beginning to feel like I've hit the equilibrium point in the last few days.  I finally realized that the vanilla relationship is what I really want, like I've got in my profile, being called a husband and father really do mean much more to me than all the rest.

I should note something right quick.  I equate bedroom Dom with Top, bedroom sub with bottom.  I know quite a few folks think Top/bottom simply is whos doing the swinging and whos getting swung at, whereas the D/s relates to the emotional flow behind that.  Its the reason why things like "Masochistic Dom" and "Sadistic Sub" come into being, which to me is a big of a oxymoron as "Military intelligence" and "benevolent dictatorship"



hisannabelle -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/8/2007 11:20:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: spanklette
You know, now that I think about this a little more...I wonder if it's because bedroom Doms and subs don't feel the need to reach out to others in a forum such as this being that their "main" relationship is more vanilla, in nature. Just a wandering thought...


this makes quite a bit of sense to me.

jere, i wasn't trying to discount your point in my earlier post, simply offer my view on it...which is that the stratification is basically bullshit :P as stratification usually is in such cases. i'm not saying it doesn't exist. there's just not a reason for it to exist.

annabelle.



Pezzle -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/8/2007 11:32:10 PM)

In regards to differences in lifestyles/titles:

There are points where the lines blur as well. For instance, we consider our relationship to be 24/7, but we are mainly bedroom. What I mean by this is the full power play comes out in the bedroom, but it also seeps through in many aspects of life. I can illustrate this better.... For instance, he's not telling me the precise length of my hair and how many peas to put on my plate (FOUR PEAS!!!) but rather just allows his dominance to come through with some things e.g. some housework and carrying beer bottles for his friends. Also, I refer to him as master and he exercises his authority over me in non-bedroom situations, yet he refuses to control EVERY aspect of my life. This makes things a tad more complicated I suppose, but it is simple for us -- it's what we want.

The question really is exactly where are the lines in the sand drawn between lifestyles? Are there concrete definitions or do they remain subjective to the couple/group at hand?



BondageTopJere -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/9/2007 1:29:25 AM)

quote:


jere, i wasn't trying to discount your point in my earlier post, simply offer my view on it...which is that the stratification is basically bullshit :P as stratification usually is in such cases. i'm not saying it doesn't exist. there's just not a reason for it to exist.


Ack, wemt and reread my first reply.  Realized I went off on a tangent after the first sentence.  Like I ended the post,  I think its pretty much BS too. [:D]

Pezzle

Thier not so much so "lines" as fuzzy grey areas at best, and the definitions are very subjective to the paticular couple at hand and how they apply can change over time.  I consider myslef a Top primarily, there nothing to say that might grow into full bloom Dom or more.  We grow as people, often in response to the closest to us.

I think a lot of my rankle about it all as that even though the terms ARE subjective, theres is generally rrecognized "level of committment" inherent in what a person identifies themselves as, although how that committment expresses itself is unique to the person.  That, by and large, I don't have an issue with. The.... unrealistic assumption of that committment at times is where the issue creeps in.  A lot of the.... unsteadiness I've read in profiles comes from people attempting to start out as a fullblown M/sl or D/s, and realizing that they don't want the entirety that it means to the one they try it with. 



gypsygrl -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/9/2007 6:17:41 AM)

quote:

I do often feel a negativity towards tops/bottoms as "greedy" people who are only in it for the sex.


I'm much more likely to respond positively to someone who says they're in it for the sex and acknowledges how important the sex is as a medium of power exchange and wants to explore that than someone who downplays the sexual aspects.  It is about sex for me and I can bottom or submit depending on the situation.  (I can also do SM without the sex and other non-sexual forms of power exchange)

Sometimes, I can't tell what the other person is after and that is never good because I depend on them to guide me in how I approach the interaction.  If I'm bottoming, I have to excercise a lot more self-contol and tend to limit my time with the other person because I'm submissive inside and outside the proverbial bedroom.  If they don't want to be dominant outside of the bedroom, its best we just don't go there.  I worry about over-burdening guys with my submissivness.

If I'm into someone, I'm into them 24/7 whether or not we have a committed relationship or spend only limited amounts of time with each other.  Either they're in my head or not.  How I express this, however, depends on the relationship structure we negotiate.

I agree that most guys don't want think of themselves as sexual dominants even when they exhibit little interest in dominance outside of sex.  Personally, I'm hesitant to put it very clearly in my profile because I've noticed that putting any open sexual references in there attracts all sorts of emails I don't want to deal with.  I'd rather discuss the details one on one. (or post them in a public forum lol)



truesub4u -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/9/2007 7:55:32 AM)

Fast reply here..

Really no matter what the relationship title is.. there is always going to be someone on the top..and someone on the bottom. And sometimes those positions are going to switch. Just depends on what's going on in each individuals life and relationship at the time.

There's nothing wrong with it either. It's just life.
Example:. Dom gets sick, possibly bed ridden. Sub then takes on more of a top side of things. Making sure everything is done right. From more domestic chores to bills paid, to the doms medical care. And we all know sick people can be slightly stubborn at times...so the bottom becomes the top with instructing the top to do what's best to get well. Begging may start,but after awhile it about becomes a demmand. Hence the top then becomes the bottom and has to submit to the changes in their life of having things done differently.

As for the sexual side of it... I've noticed too on here to be able to just yell out.. i'm a bedroom sub.. or i'm a bedroom dom only.. sort of turns peoples aspects, thoughts of you in other directions. I've too been called a bedroom sub by a few other subs on here in the past simply because I do not think as they do on certain aspects. Alrighty then, so be it. But it doesn't change me for who and what I am and the person i'm with thinks either. And my life has gone on . Their thoughts of who and what I am didn't mean squat to me. And it shouldn't to thers as well.

Probably not the response that should of been posted. But it was my thoughts on the subject.



robertolapiedra -> RE: Top/Bottom perceptions (5/9/2007 8:18:11 AM)

Top/bottom vs D/s? When it's only bedroom I think it's 'only bedroom'. If the majority are looking for another form of sub/dom relationship that makes them 'different' not better.

As for top and bottom sex , you can have a sexslave and still function as vanillas. It's called having kink in a relationship (hot sex?!!!). You can have very 'unkink' sex and still function as D/s (traditionnal marriage). BDSM is a broad thing. I'm not S/M for example, am I more or less interesting to the the group? Labels...Who cares man. RL.



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