Monogamy (Full Version)

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slaveSeeksDom -> Monogamy (2/3/2004 1:02:13 AM)

I have was in a relationship for 2 years with a dom. About 9 mos. into the relationship, I discovered that he was cheating on me left and right 2-3 times per week with different women while we were living together. He tells me that because I complain to him about this, because I cry and get upset that I am not a true submissive. Would love to hear from other doms on this topic. Does being submissive mean that you tolerate cheating?



Lagniappe -> RE: Monogamy (2/3/2004 4:41:29 AM)

He's a dog ... dump the SOB. He has been untruthful to you and that will never change no matter what he might promise. And his response to you suggests he has no intention of changing. It has nothing to do with being submissive or not ... it has to do with him having no integrity. His concept of a sub is an easy lay that won't question him. In other words, he want a stupid sub. If that's what you want to be, then you deserve each other. But the fact that you question this suggests you are better than that. Get a Dom who'll show you the respect you deserve instead of a horndog that's only gonna bring some disease home to you on his dick (and then dump you if you get sick).



Voltare -> RE: Monogamy (2/3/2004 7:35:07 AM)

Cheating (not to be confused with consensual, polyarmorous relationships) is wrong. Period. It has nothing to do with D/s, BDSM, M/s, SM, or any other version of the lifestyle - and it's men like this who portray lifestylers in such a poor light.

Everything you ever needed to know about BDSM you learned in kindergarten. Don't touch toys that aren't yours. Don't say things to people you wouldn't want said to you. Don't get in tickle fights with the smelly kid. If it falls on the ground, or goes in the toilet, dont' put it in your mouth. Don't lie, don't cheat, and don't break the rules, because if you do nobody else will want to play with you.

Lagniappe's right, this guy doesn't deserve you, and I'm rather surprised he's able to keep as many women strung along for as long as he has. It's up to you to decide if the risks to your health - and possibly any children you may have - of his infidelity are worth this person

Stephan



MistressDREAD -> RE: Monogamy (2/3/2004 12:57:05 PM)

sneeks into the Masters area not seeing any one awake and speaks My opinion.....
Im currious if you both discussed limits befor your being with Him an if there was a contract signed for this D/s relationship or was it formed off of verbal words and assumptions of what the relationship would intail? Its always good to blast one whom have done us wrong in our eyes but not when there is only one side of the picture being shown. Humiliation is a alternative lifestyle tool and I see in your words both using it. Polyamory is practiced commonly in alternative lifestyles by a group whom respects one another the same as they would a single person and shows the same respects for one another equally. BUT thru all these thoughts the first one that does jump to mind is HONOR and INTEGRITY and Consensual. And you have said your self that you found Him * cheating on you and it sounds like you have not yet left, or stayed with Him after you found out He was not living up to His end of the bargan, there for you are being * CONCENSUAL in your actions of staying with one that shows no Honor in a relationship that sounds on your side to have been based off of Monogamy, and this actions in its self could of been misread by Him as a action you desired.



sub4hire -> RE: Monogamy (2/3/2004 5:03:32 PM)

I am not a Dom but I agree 100% with Voltare. I have very high standards myself. If he is cheating on you. Has'nt he been lying to you from the start? Is'nt the lifestyle based on trust between two people? Or three, whatever the case may be?
I personally don't think him being a pig has anything to do with you being a submissive.

Gloria



MizSuz -> RE: Monogamy (2/3/2004 6:45:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveSeeksDom

I have was in a relationship for 2 years with a dom. About 9 mos. into the relationship, I discovered that he was cheating on me left and right 2-3 times per week with different women while we were living together. He tells me that because I complain to him about this, because I cry and get upset that I am not a true submissive. Would love to hear from other doms on this topic. Does being submissive mean that you tolerate cheating?



I don't think I have enough information to adequately answer your question. I agree that "cheating" shows a significant lack of integrity. If you know that he does it (as you suggest you have known for over a year) and you stay is it then still cheating? What is your definition of cheating and how does it apply here? What were the terms of your original agreement? Was it a written or spoken agreement or did you just assume it would be the way you wanted it to be?

Why do you cry, get upset and complain? From your statement it would seem to me that it is not helping your situation (and from my experience I'd say the prognosis is not good).

I have always been very clear with all my submissives that, while I may choose to practice monogamy for any given period of time, I NEVER promise it. I do promise honesty. These are all things that are discussed before the relationship becomes a sexual relationship. All together too often I have experienced a submissive who said they could deal with that (or perhaps even wanted it) until the reality of it was before them or until they discover they are emotionally invested. Often their reaction is to try to change me to suit their new needs (or their old needs sprung to life anew), rather than seeing that they are not prepared to live the way they thought they'd chosen to live. I have even experienced this scenario with submissives who I was practicing monogamy with, but they wanted the PROMISE that I will not give.

Many people who choose to submit do so with an unrealized goal of trying to enslave the dominant with their submission. "If I give my all to him he will raise me up, put me on a pedestal, adore me, pet me, and put no other before me." For many dominants "putting no other before you" is not a part of their chosen sexual relationship dynamic. There is also the "if you really loved me you'd see how your behavior is hurtful to me and wouldn't do it" game. Have you said or thought these things?

If he is a liar and does not follow through with his spoken commitments then my question to you is why are you still there? Do you not believe you deserve to have the life that you want and the relationship you were promised?

I must agree with Mistress Dread in that if you state that you can not live with a particular behavior and that behavior persists, and you choose to stay anyway, then you are proving with your actions that you CAN live with it...and are consenting to it.

Pain in life is inevitable, suffering is optional.



hisbijou -> RE: Monogamy (2/3/2004 7:29:21 PM)

i found myself in a similar situation with a previous Dominant. He was spoken highly of, in the community, and i was so happy to have found Him....i later found out that on the very night He dined with me, He told His collared submissive that He was busy with work. He told me that they had broken up weeks earlier! i soon found that His home was a revolving door for several subs. He called all of us, e-mailed all of us, and somehow managed to keep us on a schedule. He could not be alone. once i found out about His lies, and found out how pathological of a liar He was, i had to leave. it is one thing to have a consensual polyamorous relationship, but i cannot stand lies. i hope You will leave this man, and not be blinded by His deception. it will always be so.
be well,
bijou



Voltare -> RE: Monogamy (2/4/2004 3:56:50 AM)

Suz,

In fairness, when I answered, I viewed the letter as a stereotype. Naturally, something has kept this woman with her owner for as long as she has, and the advice I gave, was based only on what she had offered. I would offer that just because a woman stays with a man who cheats, doesn't make his cheating wrong, and doesn't mean she cannot express her concerns.

I have a bad habit. I hate to take out the garbage. I let it get stacked up all the way to the top, I crush it down, and only when I absolutely have to take it out, does it find it's way to the dumpster. I laugh, because it's because I remember my step-mother shrieking at me when I was a kid for taking the garbage out when the bag was only half full - and she didn't want to spend money on garbage bags.

This is a bad habit, one that I might never actually fix. If my partner/slave/etc cannot accept this, should she leave me for it? If I consistantly struck a slave in anger, and she grew to accept this (clearly wrong) behavior as acceptable, does this mean she is now consenting to it? On the other hand, what right do we have to judge a woman who actively seeks relationships where she will be made to feel 'badly' either from verbal or physical abuse?

The moral quagmire runs deep, as the lines between consensuality and ethics becomes blurred by 'its wrong if you don't like it, unless you want to not like it, but it isn't wrong to not like wanting to not like it' scenerios. Like you, I have very strong expectations of right wrong, and I will not hesitate to voice them when I see a situation that, in my mind, appears to be abusive. Just because a man calls himself Master, doesn't mean it's not abuse.

The element here:

quote:

He tells me that because I complain to him about this, because I cry and get upset that I am not a true submissive.


in my mind is clearly abusive behavior. It's emotional blackmail, just as if I were to tell a vanilla girlfriend that she doesn't 'love me enough' to stay with me, even though I'm cheating on her left and right. Swathing abuse in the mantal of BDSM and D/s doesn't make it less abusive.

I didn't intend for this to be as forceful a post as it seems to have come out, but it's a topic I feel passionately. In reviewing it, I stand behind everything I've said - but I do remind the reader, that they are only worth whatever weight you choose to lend them.

Stephan

Champion of Righteous Indignation



MizSuz -> RE: Monogamy (2/4/2004 5:58:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Voltare

Champion of Righteous Indignation


HAHAHAHAHA

That was GREAT! Thanks for the chuckle!


quote:



This is a bad habit, one that I might never actually fix. If my partner/slave/etc cannot accept this, should she leave me for it?


If she can not accept it, and it makes her miserable beyond the point she wishes to be miserable; if there is no way to find a balance that both can live with, then I say yes she should leave you for it. And that's just about garbage, not about putting her at risk with promiscuous behavior against her agreement. I understand your comparison (I think), but again I must ask "Did you agree and promise to take out the garbage and then sneak around and lie to avoid it?" I think this topic is more about integrity and personal responsibility than compatibility.


quote:


If I consistantly struck a slave in anger, and she grew to accept this (clearly wrong) behavior as acceptable, does this mean she is now consenting to it? On the other hand, what right do we have to judge a woman who actively seeks relationships where she will be made to feel 'badly' either from verbal or physical abuse?


In it's most basic form I have to say yes, if you stay you are consenting. I agree that this does not take into consideration all the associated dynamics of abuser/abused and the level of self actualization that is required to actually make a change, but in the final analysis if someone is living in an arrangment they find intolerably miserable (unless they are being held captive against their will) then they are consenting to it by staying. I also know couples in which the dynamic of the top striking the bottom in anger is accepted. For me it is abuse, for them it is part of their AGREED to dynamic. I can't say it's "wrong" for them because they have both agreed to it. I can only say it's wrong for me.

I have no judgement regarding whether you consent or not. I can't even say if it's right or if it's wrong for you, only me. I think I pointed that out when I said "I haven't got enough information to answer the question."


quote:


The element here:

quote:

He tells me that because I complain to him about this, because I cry and get upset that I am not a true submissive.


in my mind is clearly abusive behavior. It's emotional blackmail, just as if I were to tell a vanilla girlfriend that she doesn't 'love me enough' to stay with me, even though I'm cheating on her left and right. Swathing abuse in the mantal of BDSM and D/s doesn't make it less abusive.



Well, it's a dynamic that certainly wouldn't work for me.

The original poster made it quite clear that she is miserable over it all, she did not make it clear whether she agreed to this type of dynamic at the outset or not; nor whether this dynamic was ever discussed before she became sexually involved and emotionally invested.

I had a submissive who was with me for almost two years (at least half of which was 24/7). We discussed at great length my previously mentioned credo and he was quite amenable to it, until he decided he was in love with me. He made himself quite miserable over not being able to extract a promise of monogamy from me (and tried to make me miserable, as well). It did not matter to him that I WAS monogamous, he wanted only that which I'd made clear I would never give. He very much felt abused at the time simply because I would not give him what he wanted. He chose to make me responsible for his personal happiness and then set about trying to change me to give him the validation that he wanted. Clearly he saw it as abuse simply because I was not giving him what he wanted. I did not see it that way. He also became more upset when I wouldn't let it upset me, because to him it was proof that I didnt love him. In the end he lied to me and started 'subbing' to others behind my back (which was WAY outside our agreed upon arrangement), he even allowed himself to be collared by a woman who lived in another state (while he was still living with me and wearing my collar). Imagine my surprise to discover what he was really doing on his "camping trips with the guys." Which one of us was the abuser? Me for not giving him what he wanted and staying within the framework of my promises or him for filling our lives with hysteria, emotional neediness, drama and finally deceit? To my mind he was the abuser, but he abused himself. He only lied to me but he made himself quite miserable with all the chaos.

For me it comes down to integrity and there was not enough information in the original post for me to ascertain which way that wind was blowing for these people.

I am a very big proponent of personal responsibility. It's quite possible that I've had too much therapy over the years, but I simply do not agree that someone outside of you has the ability to make you miserable unless you agree to go there as well. Not when there is an unlocked door and you live in a country that has so many alternatives.

In ALL the relationships that I have had that went awry, that I found myself more miserable than I wanted to be - the misery ended when I removed myself from the situation (given a proper grieving time). Personal responsibility. If there is no way to make it what you want and need to have then you must be responsible enough to do what must be done to make the life you want. If you don't, then your misery is concensual.



Erusvi -> RE: Monogamy (2/4/2004 10:17:24 AM)

<insert thunderous applause here>

I love you, Suz. Now come on... tell me I'm your one and only... pleeeeeaaaaase?

[;)]

We build our nests in the same ethical tree, you and I. Now, that said, I have to say that while slaveseeksDom did not explicitly detail the conventions of her relationship... the absence of such detail tells me that those parameters weren't discussed, or even worse, were mispresented from the beginning.

To my mind, monogamy is a farce. I have no interest in it. The basic foundation of it - insecurity - is entirely corrosive to a relationship. It breeds jealousy, suspicion, fear, anger, and the list of undesirables goes on. Personally, I'd rather not. For others... well, we choose our own crosses, I suppose.

All in all, you're right about the most important aspect: What's past is past. That cannot be undone. It's a question of what she will do now. As long as she stays in the scenario, she perpetuates it. "Pain in life is inevitable, suffering is optional." What delightfully functional poetry, Suz.

You have one life. One. Despite what anyone says about being a submissive or a slave or an albino whooping llama... what you do with your life is ultimately decided by YOUR choices... so make good ones.

They don't call it common sense for nothing.



Voltare -> RE: Monogamy (2/4/2004 11:16:31 AM)

Suz,

I agree with 90% of what you say (as I often seem to do.) However, when I see women who are battered by their boyfriends/husbands/etc, yet are desperately afraid to leave for any number of problems, I aggressively take the position that they need OUT. This doesn't mean they don't love the abuser, it doesn't mean they have failed as a woman, it means that the relationship is unstable. It ALSO doesn't mean I have the 'right' to interfere with the relationship, beyond offering an ear to listen and a shoulder to cry on.

I too firmly believe a person has the right to make poor choices, and remain in situations that are neither emotionally or physically safe. In my own history, if a woman leaves her husband, because I have urged her to escape his brutality, I have experienced the backlash when she returns to him and ceases to confide in me, deeming me untrustworthy. Nobody can make decisions about what is best for another.

Having said all of these things, the sub in question didn't ask us to choose for her - she asked what we felt. Due to a grammatical error, I couldn't tell if she is still living with the man or not, and as she hasn't volunteered any further information yet, it's still up in the air. I don't respond to questions here just to offer the answer to the person who asks the question. If I have a private response, I just email it. Usually when I'm offering answers here, I'm hoping that others can benefit from the words we share, so that if some sub who's been with her first Dom for three weeks catches her owner cheating, she's not left to feel that somehow this is 'how it is.'

I do echo Suz and ErusVI's sentimants - I don't make promises of monogamy, and I make sure my slave is EXPRESSLY aware of my interests. On the other hand, I also don't actively seek other partners and relationships independent from my own slave, but while this is how I 'tend' to be, I refuse to let the sub/slave make any demands of me in this respect. What a sub/slave should, or should not demand/expect is a topic for another thread.

Stephan



slaveSeeksDom -> RE: Monogamy (2/8/2004 1:08:25 AM)

Thanks so much for all of your input. I guess I should have provided more facts. I have been going out with this Dom for just over 2 years now - living together for the last 1 and 1/2 years. I did not find out that he was cheating on me until about 9 mos. into the relationship. Prior to that, we did have a discussion as to whether his being a Dom meant that he wanted to screw around with other women, and he said absolultely and unequivocally that he as long as I give him everything he wants, he has no need to look around. And to the best of my knowledge, I gave this man everything he wanted, or at the very least everything he asked for. At no time did he indicate that I was not satisfying his needs, and I never said no to any of his sexual demands. When I started finding suspicious evidence, he flat out denied on several occasions that he was screwing anyone else. Then when I found out the truth, he swore to me (in front of my own mother) that he would stop. Then when I found out he did not stop screwing around, and even left him, he would come to be crying and begging, swearing on his mother's grave, his father's grave that he would stop, that he would get therapy, that he didn't want to lose me, that he was going to be open and honest, and let me know everything that was going on, blah, blah, blah. Well, he is very convincing and probably even believes his own promises when he makes them. So I did go back to him a few times - I guess enough times before it finally sunk in that his promises are meaningless and that he will just do it again. It is so difficult for me because I truly love this man, and it is so hard to accept that it is possible to give someone everything, and that they can't at the very least be honest about who they are. I could understand if he would just have said something like "Well, I understand how you feel, but I don't think it's possible for me to be with just woman." No, instead, all I got was lies that I guess I wanted to believe. In my earlier post when I said that I would complain and cry - that would usually be because there was suspicious behavior, but I had no real proof of infidelity. This meant he would go on the defensive. I am moving on now and I guess I learned a good lesson. It is good to hear from doms out there that such behavior is not part of being a dom. I am interested in the BDSM lifestyle. Unfortunately, my first experience with it was with the wrong person. I am sure that someday I will meet a dom who is honest and has high personal integrity.



ShadowHwk -> RE: Monogamy (2/8/2004 8:22:26 AM)

slaveseeksdom,

Though it took a while, you did learn the truth - and learned something about yourself at the same time. He claimed monogamy, but words are cheap - as you found out. When words and actions contradict, look at the actions - they seldom lie. To lie with words is EASY to lie with actions requires much more effort. If what you seek/want/need is monogamy then don't settle for anything less.

Good Luck on your seach.
ShadowHwk



EStrict -> RE: Monogamy (2/8/2004 1:07:59 PM)

Hi Seeks,,, I do have one comment on your second post. You had said in your first post that when you complained he would say you were not submissive enough. Now that you have explained the full situation, the truth is that he is not really a dom by the definition I look at someone.

The first rule of being a dominant is being able to control yourself. After all, if you can't control yourself, how can you be expected to control another? And the fact that he kept *slipping* up showed serious lack of control on his part.

Sandy



hisbijou -> RE: Monogamy (2/9/2004 12:32:33 AM)

I don't have any answers myself....i have an inkling that some men want all the beneifits of having a submissive, without the responsibility of being a Dominant. .....i bet for all the joy i bring, i also bring a headache into the mix. i sometimes wonder if i should have two Dominants, that way no one bears the burden of me, alone....and i might also get all the attention i need.
bijou



Jasmyn -> RE: Monogamy (2/9/2004 1:28:07 AM)

Firstly, oh my god girlfriend...grr at the line "you're not a true submissive"...for a whole other reason I am dealing with a woman in New Zealand who is emotionally suffering because a Master used this line to blow off training her...rather than the real reason, which I wont go into..but suffice to say it has harmed her :(

I first became involved in BDSM some years ago and fell into a D/s relationship with my then boyfriend. He had an affair with a friend, another submissive, and I eventually left him. I wrote the following at the time...still full of anger and hurt.

Am so glad I am no longer that angry f|ower.


Thinking Before You Leap...

When we first explore the concept of bdsm and D/s most people are overwhelmed to discover the level of honesty and trust that could over time be achieved with their chosen partner/s in roles of Dom & sub through communication and understanding.

Aswell as the community as a whole, in that we learn to trust each other in both scening and everyday interaction and everyone involved is well aware of the need for trust and honesty when wishing to embark on playing with others. The basis is there to act honestly and responsibly and to talk issues and limits through as adults so there are no excuses. It is after all peoples safety, emotionally and physically at stake here.
What happens then when one is betrayed by both their Dominant and a close friend/sub?

How does a submissive recover and overcome that when the basis of their involvement with each person was this trust?

Over time the sub will come to realise that they were not at fault here but that conclusion will take a painful twist. How does he/she trust anyone in the community again?

Of course the fault here lies with the two who chose to betray the sub in the first place, and not their involvement in bdsm. But I wonder if it does reflect on the community? How many other people waver honesty and trust in the pursuit of their kink?

The ultimate fault lies with the Dominant of course, he/she has the basis of a trusting relationship to tell their primary or to make the choice not to betray them, his/her actions will show them to be little more than the average joe, not worthy of the title Master/Mistress until he/she can fully grasp the concept behind a D/s involvement and make a committment to that within the limits he/she not only imposes on their submissive/s but themselves as well.

But what about the friend/sub, what responsiblitly does he/she need to have in all of this?

Submissives rely on each other for support, compassion, guidance, help, insights and friendship and confide beliefs, desires and concerns to each other. There is a need to establish what submission is and means, how others see them and how to improve and grow as subs and rely on each other for that, generally (blindly) without the fear that this level of honesty may leave them open to abuse by someone.

If a sub chooses to follow the path of betraying another sub, he/she does it even in the knowledge that it would have devestating consequences, as a friend that sucks, but we deal with that, people are people after all. As a submissive themselves however, they know first hand the level of trust and understanding that is required and to what extent a sub trusts in his/her significant other.

Embarking on a betrayal of another sub not only impacts on the sub hurt, but the submissive themselves. They have to live with the knowledge that they have betrayed one of the most fundamental facets of D/s and then forever live in fear that the same will happen to them when they find themselves in a Dom/sub committment. They will always be afraid that what goes around comes around, because they know they can not even trust themselves to behave with dignity and honesty, how are they ever going to trust anyone else too?

In my opinion neither parties can call themselves Dominant or submissive if they choose to do this or atleast kidding themselves that they are. A submissive does not betray another and then live happily ever after and a Dom is not one if he/she can betray the one person he/she has chosen to take into their arms and call them his/hers.

Perhaps before anyone looks at themselves and says I am Dom, or I am sub, they should consider very carefully what that means to them...they should evaluate every situation put forward to them and ask 'can I act with integrity, honesty and truth'...if the answer is no...then you are on the wrong website...or even more importantly the wrong lifestyle.
f|ower

January 15th 1999

He wasnt a dom hun, and neither by the sounds of it was you're partner.

Too many people claim the lifestyle when in reality they are merely sexually dominant, and as with most things sexually driven..integrity is often left on the floor with the socks.

Mistress Jasmyn



ShadowHwk -> RE: Monogamy (2/9/2004 11:51:12 AM)

quote:

Too many people claim the lifestyle when in reality they are merely sexually dominant, and as with most things sexually driven..integrity is often left on the floor with the socks.


Well said indeed.

Terry
AKA ShadowHwk



Asmodeus -> RE: Monogamy (2/9/2004 1:44:46 PM)

It sounds like the "Dom" in this situation is trying to excuse his lack of integrity by claiming that his infidelity is a lifestyle issue.

Well baby, that dog don't hunt.

His behavior has absolutely nothing to do with this lifestyle. He is someone who can't control his own impulses and doesn't deserve any sympathy from his "submissive" or anyone else.

But the original poster is simply enabling this behavior, as many women do (regardless of the vanilla or lifestyle aspect). When he proved he was integrity challenged, and couldn't even stick to his own promise to change, the poster should have told him to hit the road.

There is no middle ground here; if you allow him his infidelities, repeatedly, with no penalty, you are just as guilty as he is. And for him to even get to the point where he can blame you for his actions means this relationship is long past saving.

We are each responsible for our own actions. Period. End.



RoughstringRider -> RE: Monogamy (2/12/2004 9:19:12 AM)

Reading the replies from everyone here I must say I'm very impressed with the thoughtful answers, and found the perspectives very enlightening.
I do, however, have a slightly different perspective, and so feel My two cents are justified.
I am a monogamous person. I have tried multiple partnerships, I have tried open relationships, all that. Over the years I came to the realization that I'm just most comfortable in a one to one relationship with no mixing or matching.
My reasonings for it? Selfishness perhaps... I certainly do not wish to share Mine with anyone... she belongs to Me. Laziness possibly... After all, it's less effort to care for one, than two. Or perhaps I'm simply happiest knowing that I'm with one person, and our full romantic and relationship attentions are focused on each other... and I feel this is the way she receives My best, and I'm getting her best.
I don't cast aspersions on those who enjoy polyamory, just as I would hope they respect My desire for monogamy. But having said that, it means that this is something that MUST be discussed in the early stages of a relationship.
Does the submissive gain satisfaction being shared? Does she feel content with a sister? Or does she need to know that her Master is focusing all his attentions on her?
I believe slaveseeksDom did try to lay the groundwork for this, as it sounds like she stated her desire to be monogamous, and a willingness to earn it. the gentleman in question, however was in no way shape or form a Dominant, he was instead a user.
Polyamory is a valid lifestyle. Monogamy is, is well. But honesty is a requirement either way, and tolerance of dishonesty makes the person being used an enabler. And that is a recipe for heartache, emotional, mental, and possible physical abuse.
These things are not acceptable

~RR~



MizSuz -> RE: Monogamy (2/22/2004 12:01:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveSeeksDom

... Prior to that, we did have a discussion as to whether his being a Dom meant that he wanted to screw around with other women, and he said absolultely and unequivocally that he as long as I give him everything he wants, he has no need to look around.


Red flag! Did you notice that he gave you ALL the power in the relationship here (and nicely set you up to be the bad guy)? From the very beginning he was making you the sole purveyor of satisfaction in the relationship, and neatly side stepped personal responsibility.

For me this would have ended all further negotiations and it most certainly would have ended the relationship becoming any more than casual friendship. This is not the sort of statement that comes from an enlightened individual; it is textbook dysfunction and is an harbinger of chaos and drama to come.

Adults (who have achieved the status of adult by more than chronological years) do not look outside of themself for personal contentment. They know that power comes entirely from within and anything that is given from an outsider is gravy. People who do not know this are energy leeches and walking victims.

I'm afraid I see the rest of your post as the subsequent validation of my statements here. Energy leech, no personal responsibility, no integrity, chaos, drama, dysfunction.

Good luck to you in the future. I wish you the clarity of personal insight. May you see within and understand why this was (at one time) appealing enough to you to keep you engaged; and may that understanding enable you to create the sort of personal contentment you want and deserve in your life.



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