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Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 5/9/2005 12:13:14 AM   
OhMyDarlin


Posts: 1
Joined: 5/8/2005
Status: offline 		I've spent some time reading at other threads, and would like to offer this for discussion:

It is my understanding that the title "Grand Master" may be given to one that has years of experience within the lifestyle, and spends a great deal of his/her time involved with the education and welfare of the local BDSM community. It's an honorable title.

Belonging to the Old Guard, or being gay doesn't seem to be a prerequesite to receiving the title of Grand Master... or is someone pulling my leg?
.

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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 5/9/2005 4:34:22 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		Yes. Someone probably is. "Legitimate" titles are conferred by a body politic or an organization. My Grandfather was a Grand Master, by the way. It was a title conferred on him by an organization to which he belonged, namely the Free Masons. I have wondered over the years whether the BDSM community got the "Grand Master" thing from the Masons, owing to some crossover membership.

In the context of the Free Masons, the title "Grand Master" (based on my admittedly limited understanding since I'm not a Mason) means that you are a "Grand Master" of something. In other words, you've mastered some subject matter, not unlike obtaining a master's degree. In the leather community, having your peers present you with a "Master's Cap" is kind of the same. They're saying that you've mastered the subject matter domain of their lifestyle, and are someone who can therefore be counted upon to act according to the customs and traditions of that community, and to know what he's talking about.

So, with regard to the person claiming "Grand Masterhood" ask yourself why you should really give a fuck. Do you belong to the same organization that he does and want to become knowledgeable in their ways? If so, and he has righteously been designated a "Grand Master" by that organization, then he's someone that you can probably look to as a mentor, and is letting you know that by telling you of his status. If not, or if (more likely) he is a self-proclaimed "Grand Master" all he's really told you is that he's someone who would attempt to impress or influence you with a title, rather than who he actually is or what he actually knows.

< Message edited by Leonidas -- 5/9/2005 4:40:23 AM >

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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 5/9/2005 4:45:32 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
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quote:

It is my understanding that the title "Grand Master" may be given to one that has years of experience within the lifestyle, and spends a great deal of his/her time involved with the education and welfare of the local BDSM community. It's an honorable title.

Here we go again. My question would be, by whom? The International Brotherhood of Masters perhaps? The Amalgamated Dominants Union? C'mon....

quote:

So, with regard to the person claiming "Grand Masterhood" ask yourself why you should really give a fuck. Do you belong to the same organization that he does and want to become knowledgeable in their ways? If so, and he has righteously been designated a "Grand Master" by that organization, then he's someone that you can probably look to as a mentor, and is letting you know that by telling you of his status. If not, or if (more likely) he is a self-proclaimed "Grand Master" all he's really told you is that he's someone who would attempt to impress or influence you with a title, rather than what he actually is or what he actually knows.

Exactly, why would you give a fuck? Real Masters don't need someone else to give them some exaulted title to know what they are. If they do, they aren't the real deal in the first place.

Lily

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(in reply to Leonidas)
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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 5/9/2005 7:30:24 AM   
stripmaster


Posts: 16
Joined: 1/2/2005
Status: offline 		Lily,
You are right when you say "real Masters do not need someone to give them a title to know that they are knowledgeable at what they do." I hope you are not saying those that clam a title are real Masters because they say they are.

I feel a real Master must be a functional human being. He possesses a good mind, a sense of humor, self-confidence and is full of energy. He is also confident in his life and is comfortable with his Dominance. I on the other hand feel Real Masters don't clam to be Grand, Great, Super, they prove it to you by the way they live their life.

Leonidas is right the only true titles are given by a group (organization, college, etc) that you belong too. That group doesn't hold any more weight then we choose to give them.

I've worked with people who have Master Degrees and other people in the same organization that only graduated from high school. Now you would think the Master Degree would be smarter, but that’s not always true is it.

Every title given by a group or organization is honorable title unless you have paid for some specialized training and on completing the training with respectable marks you’re given a certificate proving your validation of such training. Right now I don't know of any schools private or public that trains Doms or subs.

Anybody that has done any studying / research knows that true "old Guard" came from the gay leather community after the war.
Flame on.


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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 5/9/2005 8:25:22 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

In the context of the Free Masons, the title "Grand Master" (based on my admittedly limited understanding since I'm not a Mason) means that you are a "Grand Master" of something. In other words, you've mastered some subject matter, not unlike obtaining a master's degree.


In the context of Freemasonry, the title "Master"(in context with "of the lodge") refers to the guy who is the elected leader of the local lodge. (there are, at times, more than one lodge in a locality, so there could be more than one "Master" in town) Also, in order for one to be considered a "Master" Mason, one must have completed the first three degrees of the order. At the state and/or national level(depending on the country) there are governing bodies called the "Grand Lodge".(Grand Lodge of California, Grand Lodge of England, for example) The guy who has been chosen to lead at this level is given the title and referred to as "Grand Master". It is not an inference that he has "mastered" a particular subject matter, but a title given by the members of the group upon election, much like the title of "president".
more information can be found here:
http://www.freemason.org/resources_glossary.php

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 5/9/2005 8:33:45 AM >

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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 5/9/2005 2:17:25 PM   
angelbob


Posts: 7
Joined: 12/8/2004
Status: offline 		There is no single BDSM standards organization. It's not like *any* title here means anything. However, you may have better luck simply asking the Grand Master who bestowed that title on him - chances are decent that it's self-bestowed. But if it's from an organization, ask him more about the organization. If their standards are meaningful then he should be willing to talk about it. If he treats your questions as intrustive or distrustful.... Well, it sounds like you've found somebody who's both pompous and insecure. That's probably good for you to know as quickly as possible. Luckily, he was nice enough to make it obvious for you.

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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 5/10/2005 6:06:11 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		See there, I don't know a Grand Master from a Grand Poobah. So the "Master" mason means they've mastered the subject matter. The "Grand Masters" are just the big cheese. I did a little poking around and discovered that he was also a Wise Master, a Venerable Master, a Commander, a Master of Kadosh (is that some kind of danish?), a Knight Commander of the Court of Honor, and a Inspector General Honorary. Seems the Free Masons are bigger on titles than the most ardent Exaulted International Grand Master of the Old Guard.



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Leonidas

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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 5/10/2005 7:04:50 AM   
ProtagonistLily


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quote:

a Master of Kadosh (is that some kind of danish?)


Isn't that what modern day Pop-Tarts evolved from? (I simply couldn't help myself, sorry LOL)

L

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~Dr. Seuss~

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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 5/10/2005 8:27:40 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

Master of Kadosh (is that some kind of danish?)


there are 33 degrees in Masonry, the Council of Kadosh confers the Chivalric and Philosophical degrees, from 19th to the 30th inclusive.

"The two "Rites" of Freemasonry are generally recognized; the "York Rite", which many think should more properly be called the American Rite (Royal Arch Chapters, Councils of Royal and Select Masters, Commanderies) and the "Scottish Rite" of thirty three degrees. Both Rites have their roots in symbolic Masonry, and no man in the United States, Canada, England, Ireland or Scotland may be initiated into either York or Scottish Rite who is not already a member of a Blue Lodge.
While the Scottish Rite has thirty-three degrees, numbered from 1 to 33, the Supreme Councils of the English speaking countries do not assume any authority over the first three degrees where there exists a Grand Lodge which adheres to the Landmarks of freemasonry and continues regular, legitimate and duly constituted and which refrains from interfering with the administration of the Fourth to Thirty-third Degrees inclusive by the Supreme Council. The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite goes so deeply into the past for much of its symbolism and philosophy that its origins are lost in the mists of antiquity from which emerges history."
http://www.mastermason.com/jjcrowder/scottish/scottish.html

making fun of honorable titles within another person's group (family, fraternal organization, religious affiliations, etc.) might be offensive to members of the same. this slave was only hoping to provide some explanation of the Masonic reference to "Master" and "Grand Master" and hopes that any Masonic Brethren or other Masonic family members following this thread understand that she has made this contribution with the utmost respect for those that have earned those titles.


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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 5/10/2005 8:41:21 AM   
cellogrrlMK


Posts: 672
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		The International Cat Association (www.tica.org) recognizes the titles of Master, Grand Master, Double Grand Master, Triple Grand Master, Quadruple Grand Master, and the very highest title, Supreme Grand Master.

These titles are earned in the Household Pet class, which consists of well, just about any feline one wishes to enter in the class, from pedigreed to your basic Heinz 57 variety. Of course, to prevent pet overpopulation and to educate the public to such, all Household Pets must be neutered or spayed to compete.

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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 5/10/2005 8:57:06 AM   
stormsfate


Posts: 849
Joined: 2/1/2005
Status: offline 		This isn't to anyone in particular...I just hit Fast Reply :)

My take is that there are those who would *like* for there to be such titles and hierarchy. I can understand the thinking of "who the heck cares", but also understand that little bit o' something inside that would enjoy the existence of that type of community. I have to confess...I am one of those people (yes, I'm a closet daydreamer...laughing). I just think it would be a kewl thing if there *were* the houses of fiction, and titles to go along with it, much in the same way I think it would be kewl to live in a real castle, have only horses as a means of transportation, be of the nobility and live in meideval times.

I'm not sure why people bash those who would have an interest in this type of thing. Its no different than those who have taken the Gor books and decided to try to live that way. (Gor makes me laugh, but I certainly have nothing against those who practice it...even if it is based on fictional books. It obviously fulfills a need in them, or they wouldn't be doing it.) Although we (speaking of the dynamic I am in) don't happen to be high protocol, we do practice some protocol and I have to admit, I LIKE it (which is probably a good thing since it isn't optional)

For all that much of what we read about this sort of thing isn't true and is tossed about trying to impress others...who's to say that someone couldn't start their own community in just that manner? Afterall, most of us don't really need the approval of others to do wiitwd, and most of us could care less if we are dancing to the beat of a different drum.

So why not?


best regards,
fate (who's tongue is only slightly in cheek)

*Edited because I had my analogy wrong...lol

< Message edited by stormsfate -- 5/10/2005 9:00:37 AM >

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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 5/10/2005 2:21:20 PM   
Stunning


Posts: 76
Joined: 7/16/2004
Status: offline 		I only recognize Grand Master Flash.

Oh yea, and LL Cool J.

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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 5/11/2005 6:54:29 AM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

making fun of honorable titles within another person's group (family, fraternal organization, religious affiliations, etc.) might be offensive to members of the same.


Yeah, well, you know, I remember my Grandad as a smart, unassuming man with a quick wit and a child-like sense of humor. I actually remember him refering to himself as the "Grand Poobah" (it's a Flintstone's reference) more than once. It's been a long time, but my distinct impression was that those around him were far more impressed with his ring with the little "33" on it than he was. My sense, though I was pretty young, was that he belonged to the Free Masons because he had a keen sense of commitment to community. I remember him doing a good deal of civic and charity work in under the auspices of his lodge. The titles didn't mean a whole lot to him. If there are any offended Free Masons reading on, I would encourage them to be more like my Grandad.

The point that I was making though, and that I think may have been lost in the rush to clarify the terminology of Free Masonry, is that the titles that Grandad held were conferred on him by others because he had achieved something. Either he mastered some subject matter and earned a "degree", or he was a chosen leader in his community. As I was saying, too, those titles don't really mean squat to someone who isn't a Mason. Grandad could have used "hey, babe, I'm a Master, Wise Master, Venerable Master, and Grand Master" as a pickup line in a bar, but, again, why should the woman he was talking to care unless she was intent on landing herself a big-time Free Mason?

Titles are only important within the ambit of the organization that confers them is the point. The guys walking around touting their "Grand Masterhood" to anyone who will listen are just tooting their (smallish) horn. Take it for what it's worth.


< Message edited by Leonidas -- 5/11/2005 7:29:39 AM >

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Leonidas

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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 5/11/2005 9:10:31 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

The titles didn't mean a whole lot to him.


Considering the title of Grand Master is something that one is elected to, it had to matter to him at some level or he wouldn't have thrown his hat in the ring for consideration from the other members to act as their leader(ran for election)---especially at a National or State Level. It's not like there are 50 guys that get together that represent the membership of the entire state or country and say NOT IT! until there is one guy who was too slow and said NOT IT! last.

this slave completely understands Your point about how it doesn't really mean much to the rest of the world, after all, you have a Masonic Grandfather---mother's side?--and you think it meant nothing to him. bet his Masonic Brethren and Family would know, by the sheer fact that he sought out and attained the title. this slave was trained to be respectful, by a Mason who never was the "Grand Master" of a state or country's Masonic Body--he was very active in the community, but didn't wish to be elected to a leadership role, thereby garnering a "title". if he would, he probably would have called himself "Grand Poobah" to the little ones, but not in a public forum.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 5/11/2005 5:07:55 PM >

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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 5/27/2005 9:35:52 PM   
masterdarkthorn


Posts: 13
Joined: 5/22/2005
Status: offline 		The sad reality is that anyone can call themselves anything they want in this lifestyle without having to earn the title. I beleive a Master should be familiar with all facets of the lifestyle and should and be willing to teach others.

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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 6/7/2005 1:01:57 AM   
DarkQuin


Posts: 46
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I've spent some time reading at other threads, and would like to offer this for discussion:

It is my understanding that the title "Grand Master" may be given to one that has years of experience within the lifestyle, and spends a great deal of his/her time involved with the education and welfare of the local BDSM community. It's an honorable title.

Belonging to the Old Guard, or being gay doesn't seem to be a prerequesite to receiving the title of Grand Master... or is someone pulling my leg?


Why dont you ask the person how they came about such a title, ask for details and such. Results will vary from time to time, but most can't come up with much or anything that can be substantiated.

Q

(in reply to OhMyDarlin)
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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 6/7/2005 6:19:55 PM   
DesertRat


Posts: 2774
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From: NM/USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cellogrrlMK

The International Cat Association (www.tica.org) recognizes the titles of Master, Grand Master, Double Grand Master, Triple Grand Master, Quadruple Grand Master, and the very highest title, Supreme Grand Master.

These titles are earned in the Household Pet class, which consists of well, just about any feline one wishes to enter in the class, from pedigreed to your basic Heinz 57 variety. Of course, to prevent pet overpopulation and to educate the public to such, all Household Pets must be neutered or spayed to compete.


WOW!! I wanna be a Quadruple Supreme Grand Master...with anchovies! Except for the neutering part.

Bob

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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 6/7/2005 7:22:08 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		The only title of Grand Master I know about is in chess. I've heard there are Masonic Grand Masters too, but not being a Mason I don't know anything about them.

There are no Grand Masters in BDSM though.

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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 6/8/2005 6:57:54 AM   
cellogrrlMK


Posts: 672
Joined: 3/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat


WOW!! I wanna be a Quadruple Supreme Grand Master...with anchovies! Except for the neutering part.



Bob, Supreme is the highest you can go... BUT if you campaign every weekend all over the country you MIGHT do well enough to add Regional Winner or International Winner in front of that Supreme Grand Master!

But I'm sorry, the balls must go....

cello


< Message edited by cellogrrlMK -- 6/8/2005 6:58:34 AM >

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RE: Grand Masters, not of the Old Guard - 6/11/2005 3:06:14 PM   
DesertRat


Posts: 2774
Joined: 11/29/2004
From: NM/USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cellogrrlMK

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesertRat


WOW!! I wanna be a Quadruple Supreme Grand Master...with anchovies! Except for the neutering part.



Bob, Supreme is the highest you can go... BUT if you campaign every weekend all over the country you MIGHT do well enough to add Regional Winner or International Winner in front of that Supreme Grand Master!

But I'm sorry, the balls must go....

cello



Well then never mind! I'll stick with being a GoreTexian...or whatever that word is... Master.

Bob

(in reply to cellogrrlMK)
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