Style or Substance? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion



Message


Mercnbeth -> Style or Substance? (5/9/2005 12:40:57 PM)

What a party we attended Saturday night! The CARNAVALE DE SADE at Passive Arts was amazing. There had to be at least 100 people there; 90% of them in some form of fetish wear. What was most interesting to observe was the large number of guys in "plumage". I had "mnottertail"'s thread in mind and thinking that maybe the new generation of men are getting more in touch with nature and following the strutting, puffing style of the animal kingdom. "Skin Too" was there taking pictures and maybe some will be posted soon to their site.

Anyway, the party had a live band, DJ, demos of Fire Play, ritual hanging from body piercing, and a wild energy. Seeing that crowd beth and I went early to the play rooms because we figured that space would be at a premium later. Much to our surprise - the rooms were never crowded. A VERY small percentage of the people actually played. Any play that did happen, including ours, drew a very LARGE audience. No problem with that, but it poses a question.

beth and I were at the high end of the age spectrum in attendance. How good of a time did we have? Well, when we got back to the car the clock said it was 3:00 AM. Until that moment - we weren't tired! Most of the crowd was 20 something. The group we were with were people we knew from other groups, and a few people we met from CollarMe. All of us loved the party atmosphere, but were surprised at the lack of people using the play rooms. We tried to chat with some of the younger crowd but it was a difficult (LOUD) atmosphere to have a conversation with anybody. So I'd thought I ask the group here.

For those who regularly attend public functions, do you notice that the younger people in attendance are more into the dress up side of the lifestyle and not "active"; at least in public? I know that lifestyle garb has become more socially accepted and seeing someone wearing a leather collar in public is no longer rare, at least in LA. Is the latest large influx of interest from the younger generation coming more from style and not an interest in substance or the dynamics behind the style? How do you account for the big crowd at a public lifestyle club, an so little use of the outstanding facilities?




EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Style or Substance? (5/9/2005 12:52:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
For those who regularly attend public functions, do you notice that the younger people in attendance are more into the dress up side of the lifestyle and not "active"; at least in public? I know that lifestyle garb has become more socially accepted and seeing someone wearing a leather collar in public is no longer rare, at least in LA. Is the latest large influx of interest from the younger generation coming more from style and not an interest in substance or the dynamics behind the style? How do you account for the big crowd at a public lifestyle club, an so little use of the outstanding facilities?

I think it's a growth thing. The younger crowd is growing INTO the public scene, the older generations have grown into themselves and THEN gotten into the scene.

At our young age, we're still trying on new styles, we're still going out and saying "hey world, how does this work on me?!" and then tinkering with it.

Me? I ADORE costumes. I ADORE putting together outfits. What I wear, where I wear it and what affect it will have is at least half the fun I get out of public events. The weekend before last I was originally going in a formal gown and my roommate just could NOT get it that I could wear formal wear to a kink event and still do kinky stuff, it was a terribly foreign concept.

But I do both, I play a lot, I do what I do and yes sometimes I see the other youngsters and think "boy they just don't get it" when they have their floggers hanging from their belts and all.

The scene as we know it is going to be changing a lot in the next generations, partly because ours is the first to grow WITH the awareness of who we are in the scene.

It also depends on the crowd and energy. I can't say that I've seen a difference in age when it comes to gawkers vs players, most parties are generally 60% socializers only, no matter what age.

BTW- I'd have been annoyed at the loudness and lack of quiet space to talk. I do like socializing and I like doing quiet scenes and aftercare as much as I like the raunchy loud ones.




MistressFire70 -> RE: Style or Substance? (5/9/2005 1:28:41 PM)

The phenomenon is affectionately called "S&M" here...meaning "Stand and Model".

In that age range, in my location, the SM crowd and Goth crowd mix quite a bit. So, there’s lots of people are wondering around looking good and wanting to be seen wearing something cool (we’ve been taught that in high school since the 80s).

Also, take into account that people in their early 20s usually don't have our experience at play. Since most usually aren't comfortable looking obviously "new" to people (also taught in high school by sometimes cruel peer critique), the combination means they don’t play in public until they know they’re good.

OR, perhaps, they’re much more apt to have places and chances to play at home than people our age since most of us at our age have kids and thus are forced to find public venues and just get used to playing in public.

OR, like most of the people I know that age, the SM is VERY sexual and most public venues don’t allow out-and-out intercourse. At least in my neck of the woods.

OR, perhaps, they just want to be voyeuristic (an “entertain me” type thing learned by watching TV and playing games?) whereas older people tend to be exhibitionists once they become comfortable with themselves.

Nothing wrong with any of these…just possible facts.

Fire





sub4hire -> RE: Style or Substance? (5/9/2005 2:49:05 PM)

quote:

For those who regularly attend public functions, do you notice that the younger people in attendance are more into the dress up side of the lifestyle and not "active"; at least in public? I know that lifestyle garb has become more socially accepted and seeing someone wearing a leather collar in public is no longer rare, at least in LA. Is the latest large influx of interest from the younger generation coming more from style and not an interest in substance or the dynamics behind the style? How do you account for the big crowd at a public lifestyle club, an so little use of the outstanding facilities?


You already know the answer that would come from me. I'm sure you've heard it in past conversations because I recall us talking about it.
I'm not one of the younger generation anymore either.

I have no issue in the world with nudity. I do however have issue with creepy people. There are a lot of them in the lifestyle. I've alway had an issue with gawkers. So, Doug and I do not play unless it is a a small group of people we've known for a while. Those we both feel comfortable with.
Usually 6 to fewer couples about once a month we host a private party.

As for the attire. Younger people are usually more in shape. The affects of aging has not caught up with them yet. They are more opt to wear fetish garb. Just my obervations.

Play, well I've seen some pretty dangerous play at many parties. When aids was all over the news about 7-8 year's ago we had a woman in So Cal, called herself a Mistress. Had a live in sub. Used to flog him so severely at parties everyone near would be pelted in blood. She got off on it...everyone else didn't want to be in the same space with her.
It may indeed be a good thing if the younger people were not playing and watching. You can learn through observation as well.
Yet, on the other hand I know quite a few younger people who are quite experienced at their particular fetish's.
Just depends on the crowd.





MistressJadeMTL -> RE: Style or Substance? (5/9/2005 4:29:23 PM)

Here in Montreal, we have an event organized by Club Sin (http://ClubSin.ca) called "Fetish Friday" that is held on the 1st and 3rd friday of the month. The first one is usually more crowded (up to 250-300 people!) and has some sort of performance, stage show or fetish fashion show at midnight. The second is less crowded and is usually pitched as more of a play party atmosphere, despite there only being a few pieces of play furniture.

The first thing one has to understand about Montreal is that it is very European in flavour. The French culture is also one that is not shy about love and romance. People here are generally more open-minded about sexuality in general. After all, we can easily find sex shops only a door or two away from churches in the downtown area!! Also the rate of people "living together" is something like 3-4 times the Canadian average, which is, I believe, at least 2 times higher than the US average.

Montreal is truly a city of people-watchers. We have elevated it to a high art. ;) We have several streets that are almost wall-to-wall cafés complete with outdoor terraces. It is an industry that practically caters to people-watching. The city is a fashion center and the younger generation in particular are very hip and trendy, even if on a budget.

All of these must be considered when we have a closer look at the Montreal public BDSM & Fetish scene. In particular, many of the younger generation are dressing up and going out to have a good time and are not necessarily into the whole kink aspect. Some are goths or goth-wannabes, some are simply leather or latex lovers - including our own famous Bianca Beauchamp (http://BiancaBeauchamp.com), Montreal's latex queen. She is not into BDSM or kink at all, she considers herself just a latex lover & fetish model with an exhibitionist streak.

There are many who consider many of these events to be a "See & Be Seen" type of event -- and there is nothing wrong with that. Many people find it a more accessible type of kink event to start out with; they are not ready for a private BDSM club, where they might feel totally out of place and overwhelmed by it all. There is a place for these types of events, as evidenced by the quick growth of Club Sin's Fetish Fridays, which only started last fall and now welcomes at least 200+ people on a good night.

The younger attendees, if they are interested in finding out more, usually will talk with others and discover what other events are taking place. Here the Net becomes useful, because many of the sites feature pics and describe in detail the type of event and dress code they use; which helps people to decide if that is what they are feel comfortable with. I myself have had many a discussion to inform people of other Montreal-based fetish & kink events, so much so that I started a web calendar to make it easier to point them in the right direction. (see my sig below)

Many of the older BDSM community members have a hard time with Fetish Fridays and similar events, because the music can be very loud (depending on the DJ that night) and many of them prefer the chance to socialize and the atmosphere is not particularly conducive to that. Which is why more of the older generation tends to gravitate towards munches and clubs like Le Chateau (http://LeChateau.biz) where they can actually have conversations without having to strain their voices all night.

Some folk don't mind playing in public, while others tend to shy away from it. Personally I enjoy both, depending on my mood and who I am with that night. I am a bit of a performer at heart, so that suits me. But I can understand those "purists" who only want to play at home and shun "the scene".

It all depends on the mix of people, the overall upbringing and open-mindedness of the surrounding community and culture and what kind of events are available. Obviously if you go to a club/event with very little play equipment or space, there's not much you can do. Many younger folk just don't have the playing experience yet, or can't afford a wide selection of "toys", or don't feel comfortable enough yet to play/scene in public. Yet, they have an intense interest when they do see it, as they can observe and learn from it, and maybe feel more comfortable about it about it at a later date.

I no longer take it for granted when I see people wearing a collar here in public (at a club or on the streets), as they are probably just wearing it for fashion reasons. Also, I've seen some subs even wear one to "advertise" their submissiveness at crowded events, possibly with an open lock to show they are available. I've even seen Dominants wear some sort of studded/spiked collar or neckpiece, so it is no longer a clear indicator as it might have been in years past. I also no longer assume that just because someone is wearing a flogger or whip on their belt that they know or are qualified to use it properly. I try not to make any assumptions, because the influx of relatively new people into the scene, either from the fetish/fashion/goth/club goers or the Net, means that many of the old standards are no longer as easily applicable. But then again, I'm pickier than most when it comes to socializing or playing with strangers in a club... but to each their own.

Just my 2¢ worth...



[image]local://upfiles/72957/C9633F702A3742828846377F1F5E3055.jpg[/image]




BeachMystress -> RE: Style or Substance? (5/10/2005 1:30:37 PM)


NOOOOOOOO.. I missed the final Carnavale De Sade. Bloody hell! I'd meant for us to go and totally spaced on it.

And yes, at least locally I notice that the younger crowd seems to be made up of the glitterati (those who are there to be seen in fetish wear.) Passive Arts especially seems to attract the glitterati since it is 18 and up, unlike the Lair which is 21+. The last time I was at Passive Arts, there were about 80 people in attendance. Over the course of the night there were 5 scenes I was aware of- part of that time I was scening myself and may have missed a couple, but... overall, people were there to socialize rather than play. Since most homes in So Cal are set up such that you can't make your partner scream his/her lungs out without the neighbors calling the cops, it surprises me that more don't take advantage of the dungeon while they are there.

The thing sub4hire mentions about people not wanting to play near someone who seems dangerous makes sense. One of the scenes taking place last time I was there was a cutting. I'd not want to play near that not only to avoid the blood contamination, but because I'd worry that the Dominant needs their concentration. (My sub is not silent when I play. He is allowed to vocalize as needed. Due to my being a slight bit sadistic, this means he at times shrieks.) This makes one whole room taken. Also I've often found that the only time you have multiple Dominants playing in the same room is usually when they know each other well. The last time at Passive Arts, I shared a room with Mzz Harlow and Twizted Seductress. A male Dom who had been there prior to our selecting our stations left almost as soon as we started playing. Since Passive Arts has (thinking) six rooms, it really cuts down on the number of scenes when people aren't able to share with strangers. Personally, I don't care who is around when I scene. My world goes down to my sub and myself. The only time I'm even aware of spectators or other players is if they get too close and have to be avoided on the backswing or are having loud conversations.




sub4hire -> RE: Style or Substance? (5/10/2005 1:37:25 PM)

Not to get off topic but have you ever seen Lone Wolfy do a cutting? EXCELLENT..she does beautiful work. She has done quite a few demo's for my parties.




BeachMystress -> RE: Style or Substance? (5/10/2005 2:11:06 PM)


I've not had the pleasure of seeing Lone Wolfy do cutting (or wouldn't know if I had since I don't know her.) If you have a chance, watch a fireplay demo by Orpheus. He is a good presenter and his fireplay is lovely.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Style or Substance? (5/10/2005 4:28:39 PM)

quote:

I missed the final Carnavale De Sade. Bloody hell! I'd meant for us to go and totally spaced on it.


Beach Mystress,
Not to make you feel worse but, you missed a REALLY REALLY good one. I think the crowd was closer to 100. And to top it off - we won the door prize, a whole box full of stuff.

I never noticed the dynamic of people wanting the room to their self. I'll have to pay more attention next time. But on Saturday night we never witnessed more then one scene per room now that you mention it. I also don't care if other scenes are going on in the room. If there is a piece of equipment available, even if it isn't my first choice and I want to play, I'll improvise.

Based upon attendance, I don't think that this will be the last Carnavale.

We're thinking about going to the Leather & Lace party this weekend at Palatial Mansion. We've never been there yet. Have you been there? How does it compare to PA or Lair?




sub4hire -> RE: Style or Substance? (5/10/2005 4:40:10 PM)

quote:

I've not had the pleasure of seeing Lone Wolfy do cutting (or wouldn't know if I had since I don't know her.) If you have a chance, watch a fireplay demo by Orpheus. He is a good presenter and his fireplay is lovely.


Lone Wolfy lives I believe in San Diego but gets to OC quite often. You'd know her if you saw her....she is a Master Daddy.
I've seen her the most at Lady Badgers munches in OC.
Where does Orpheus hail from?




BeachMystress -> RE: Style or Substance? (5/10/2005 5:14:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
We're thinking about going to the Leather & Lace party this weekend at Palatial Mansion. We've never been there yet. Have you been there? How does it compare to PA or Lair?



I have been to palatial mansion. It used to be the Club FEm dungeon. I will not return due to the fact that the owner threatened one of the Club FEm Domme with calling Children's Protective Services on her because he was mad at her over a BUSINESS deal. This is not something I heard secondhand, but something I witnessed. The owner has tried to blackmail me into not telling people about it, *smiles* so I make sure to take every opportunity to share what I witnessed and let my opinion be known. I'd choose Dragon's Gate or any other place over palatial mansion.




BeachMystress -> RE: Style or Substance? (5/10/2005 5:35:52 PM)


It was supposed to be the last one http://www.passivearts.com/prodtype.asp?PT_ID=110&strPageHistory=cat but if you visit the main page, they say they're revamping it. I'm glad to hear it. I was grumpy that when I finally moved close enough to go on a whim, they were stopping it, lol. My first Carnavale De Sade was very traumatic. The performers were Aesthetic Meat Front.. http://www.amf.addr.com/front2.html All was fine till I realized the performers were dancing around goat heads. Yes.. the heads (and feet) of dead goats. Oh, but wait.. we've not gotten to the point where the scantily clad sexy girls started painting themselves with blood. What can I say? We left early.

Oh, and as to how palatial mansion compares to the Lair.. it doesn't. It compares a bit to Passive Arts, but with smaller themed rooms. There is a small school room, a small child's room, a tiny interrogation room, an ok sized medical room, a large feminization room, an ok sized room with a few real bits of BDSM furniture upstairs with the feminization room, and a large main room with a very few pieces of BDSM furniture. Do keep in mind it has been 4 months since I was there last and they may have changed things or added things. Again, as long as palatial mansion is owned by the person who threatened to call CPS on a Domme because he was angry over business dealings, I'll not go anywhere near it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
Where does Orpheus hail from?


I'm not sure where Orpheus is from, but I saw his demo a few months ago at Venus Night at the Lair.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
Lone Wolfy lives I believe in San Diego but gets to OC quite often. ...
I've seen her the most at Lady Badgers munches in OC.


Good! Toy and I have been talking about going to the OC munch because I don't run into Badger enough places. I just wish it were closer to where we live. *sighs*




Emmmrld -> RE: Style or Substance? (5/10/2005 5:50:45 PM)

Merc & beth,

Well I think that there is a deffinate change in the public community from several years ago. Anyone who has been in any public community for any length of time can see the changes.

I do think that with stores like Hot Topic found in almost every mall it has made 'fetish' clothing more of the norm.

It's been my experience that if you go to something like a 'Fetish' Ball / 'Fetish' event -meaning it has the word fetish in the title you will see more of the 'stand and model' types and less of the real players.

BAGG or Bondage A Go-Go in San Francisco (used to be Wednesday nights) seems to be a more stand and model crowd than a play crowd. I think it's great. I have fetish wear I love to wear that frankly would only be appriciated by another fetishist. Not, to say that someone into he phsyical side of things won't appriciate it - just the attmosphere and conversations are a lot different at fetish events than at play events.

I would say that I would agree that I've tended to see more of the under 30 crowd appears to be more into the fashion end of the spectrum rather than the physical end.

I don't think one is better than the other - to each their own. Maybe they can learn from those that do and those that do can learn about how errotic clothing can be ;).

~Em




GentleLady -> RE: Style or Substance? (5/11/2005 5:46:13 AM)

I have only been to a few dungeon functions here in Brisbane so far and each of them had a much smaller attendance. However I had noticed two of the points you made. The majority of people were younger and there was very little play going on either publically or privately. The majority of the people either watched or socialized when there was nothing to watch. Most of the public events had been pre-arranged also. One of the dungeons impressed me by holding an open night with talks and demonstrations as to various aspects of kink.

Personally I found the avenue to be way too noisy to stay late but I did enjoy the energy levels.

Gentle Lady




FangsNfeet -> RE: Style or Substance? (5/11/2005 7:53:07 PM)

As the Hot Pink trends come about by the Hot Topic whims, We vampires need to stick together.

As for the Y generation, I think they are falling more to the gothic side which can later lead to the lifestyle. There are alot of ppl who like to stick out and be different. The only problem with these ppl is that most of them still find a group of other ppl who are into the same stuff with the same ideas. So they then have to think of something different to continue the "Oh nobody knows me" delima.

For example: Not to mock the Pagan community but I've notice the gotta be different trend the most in this area. Everyone starts off simple being a Druid, wiccan, egyption follower and such but then they notice to many ppl that are the same. So then they start mixing a few things and before you know it a person is a Rencarnated Druid Priest with the insight of RA and does terra and astrology along with reading auras and capable of astroprojection. Not to mention they've aquired the ability to harnest powers deep within the earth and dead spirits to smite there delimas.

Over all though, the only real way to know a person is to talk to them and hear there answers.
Let's look at your profile pic merc. Yeah it seams you are a kinky couple. Now let's look at the vactaion pic you showed us a while back ago. You look like the average cute couple that likes to travel. But do your actions and words show that you're a kinky couple?

So where is one suppose to dress the way they want but still be dressed for the appropriate moment in each environment?

anyway, it's a nice topic that you brought up. I can't wait to read more.




LadyAngelika -> RE: Style or Substance? (5/13/2005 6:52:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressJadeMTL
There are many who consider many of these events to be a "See & Be Seen" type of event -- and there is nothing wrong with that.


Thanks for this post Jade, and the most beautiful description of our city!

I think *fetish* events have their place, for sure. And not all fetishists are into bondage, domination and or sado-masochism. And that is not a new thing. That is a very old/common thing.

Now the thing I found interesting about Merc's post was that he was going to a kink event and not much kink happened. I've been to the club sin events Jade is talking about but it is understood that this is not a play party. When we attend other functions like the ones at Le Château, a Montreal playspace, that's a different story. You see a lot of play going on, and though most are still very fashionable, it is definitely a different tone.

Perhaps events need to advertise exactly what it is that they are? Or then again, perhaps simply let the attending crowd make of the space what they want for the evening. Both works, depending how structured one wants their event.

- LA




BeachMystress -> RE: Style or Substance? (6/3/2005 12:28:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Based upon attendance, I don't think that this will be the last Carnavale.

They are replacing Carnavale de Sade with DV8 http://passivearts.com/prodtype.asp?PT_ID=110&strPageHistory=cat They are keeping the door charge at $10 per person. This weekend (June 4th) is Club Fetish.. $20 per single or $30 a couple.




MadameDahlia -> RE: Style or Substance? (6/3/2005 1:03:11 AM)

I should really keep up on what's happening with Passive Arts... it's one of the only places I can get into at the moment. Bugger.

I guess I ought to pencil in all of the events on my calendar and keep my friend up to date.




BeachMystress -> RE: Style or Substance? (6/3/2005 1:36:52 AM)


You should come to this one. I'll be there with a couple friends, doing my last play time as a single woman.




RiotGirl -> RE: Style or Substance? (6/3/2005 8:30:52 AM)

i've never worn fetish clothing, though i've been practically naked at clubs.




Page: [1] 2   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875