The Incredible "Bush Economy".

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FirmhandKY -> The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/10/2007 11:11:58 PM)
Tax Revenues Hit Record High In April WASHINGTON, May 10, 2007 (AP) Federal revenue collections hit an all-time high in April, contributing to a further improvement in the budget deficit for the year. Releasing its monthly budget report, the Treasury Department said Thursday that through the first seven months of this budget year, the deficit totals $80.8 billion, significantly below the $184.1 billion imbalance run up during the first seven months of the 2006 budget year. So far this year, tax revenues total $1.505 trillion, an increase of 11.2 percent over the same period last year. That figure includes $383.6 billion collected in April, the largest monthly tax collection on record. ... The federal budget was in surplus for four years from 1998 through 2001 as the long economic expansion helped push revenues higher. But the 2001 recession, the cost of fighting a global war on terror and the loss of revenue from President Bush's tax cuts sent the budget back into the red starting in 2002. The administration's budget sent to Congress in February projects that the deficit will be eliminated by 2012 even if the president achieves his goal of getting his tax cuts made permanent. They are now due to expire in 2010. Who's laughing at the Laffer curve now? FirmKY

meatcleaver -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 12:16:14 AM)
If crap is an improvement from really crap, I guess the situation has improved but there is still the accumulated deficit. When Germany, a country with a population almost four times smaller as the US can export around the same amount of manufactured goods as the US, people who question the economy have a point. My teacher would have said about Bush. From a very poor starting point, one should be thankful of any improvement. [;)]

farglebargle -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 2:52:07 AM)
Yup... Bush pissed away the money we could have used to break the back of the Oil Producers, and give our children energy independence and the stars... Estimates say it would have cost 300 Billion and we've wasted 600 Billion so far. Nice going, you shortsighted fool.

Tuomas -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 11:35:33 AM)
Interesting how lowering taxes improves fiscal revenue... I guess people don't conform to academic mathematical models...

MellowSir -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 11:44:32 AM)
Ha ha, good one, and where do you think the money's going, not back into the economy, it's going to war. And it's billions of dollars that does absolutely nothing for the common citizen, our government's just wrong so long as it borrows money from its citizens for the wrong reasons, based on lies, no less, don't expect that they deserve congratulations of any kind. Those that buy into the lies and manipulations deserve to be drawn and quartered as much as those who broker the deceits.

Real0ne -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 12:28:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tuomas Interesting how lowering taxes improves fiscal revenue... I guess people don't conform to academic mathematical models... It didnt! the number just looks nice due to the devaluation of the dollar you know they pump more bucks into the economy? the stuff the make from thin airt so it now takes mnore bucks to buy the same thing or in the end pay the ame amount of taxes LOL Its just all bullshit and looks good to those who are clueless on the economy and how money works

Real0ne -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 12:30:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MellowSir Ha ha, good one, and where do you think the money's going, not back into the economy, it's going to war. And it's billions of dollars that does absolutely nothing for the common citizen, our government's just wrong so long as it borrows money from its citizens for the wrong reasons, based on lies, no less, don't expect that they deserve congratulations of any kind. Those that buy into the lies and manipulations deserve to be drawn and quartered as much as those who broker the deceits. whew! guess i am safe!

FirmhandKY -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 12:32:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MellowSir Ha ha, good one, and where do you think the money's going, not back into the economy, it's going to war. And it's billions of dollars that does absolutely nothing for the common citizen, our government's just wrong so long as it borrows money from its citizens for the wrong reasons, based on lies, no less, don't expect that they deserve congratulations of any kind. Those that buy into the lies and manipulations deserve to be drawn and quartered as much as those who broker the deceits. Taxes aren't "borrowing" from citizens. It's taking. But, since you believe that no taxes go "back into the economy", then I'll never have to worry about you making an argument about expanding government, or government job, then, will I? FirmKY

FirmhandKY -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 12:34:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Its just all bullshit and looks good to those who are clueless on the economy and how money works uh huh. [:)] FirmKY

Real0ne -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 12:35:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: MellowSir Ha ha, good one, and where do you think the money's going, not back into the economy, it's going to war. And it's billions of dollars that does absolutely nothing for the common citizen, our government's just wrong so long as it borrows money from its citizens for the wrong reasons, based on lies, no less, don't expect that they deserve congratulations of any kind. Those that buy into the lies and manipulations deserve to be drawn and quartered as much as those who broker the deceits. Taxes aren't "borrowing" from citizens. It's taking. But, since you believe that no taxes go "back into the economy", then I'll never have to worry about you making an argument about expanding government, or government job, then, will I? FirmKY i just had a vision of everyone in the us with a gov job when we take over the rest of the world

Tuomas -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 12:37:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MellowSir Ha ha, good one, and where do you think the money's going, not back into the economy, it's going to war. And it's billions of dollars that does absolutely nothing for the common citizen, our government's just wrong so long as it borrows money from its citizens for the wrong reasons, based on lies, no less, don't expect that they deserve congratulations of any kind. Those that buy into the lies and manipulations deserve to be drawn and quartered as much as those who broker the deceits. I have no opinion of your government, really. I'm just pointing out that people don't fit into nice mathematical models...

MellowSir -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 12:37:43 PM)
I'm only one step away from being an anarchist anyway. When politics and politicos go beyond city or local level, they are out of reach of the common man, and corrupted by special interests. Sad fact is that it takes money to get in power, and special favors are owed once the office is achieved. And they're not owed to me or mine.....

Tuomas -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 12:46:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: Tuomas Interesting how lowering taxes improves fiscal revenue... I guess people don't conform to academic mathematical models... It didnt! the number just looks nice due to the devaluation of the dollar you know they pump more bucks into the economy? the stuff the make from thin airt so it now takes mnore bucks to buy the same thing or in the end pay the ame amount of taxes LOL Its just all bullshit and looks good to those who are clueless on the economy and how money works Let's take a look at those figures again: ", the deficit totals $80.8 billion, significantly below the $184.1 billion imbalance run up during the first seven months of the 2006 budget year." Are you suggesting there has been 56% inflation over the last year? I don't think so. Sure, a significant protion of the economy has gone into inflation and the weakening exchange rate has caused an increase in the cost of imported base goods (although this is good for exports, as noted that they reached an all-time high to China), we are only talking about 4-6% in the period. This small protion could easily be off-set be increased sales due to a weaker dollar -afterall, it is large companies that pay the most in taxes.

selfbnd411 -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 1:01:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tuomas This small protion could easily be off-set be increased sales due to a weaker dollar -afterall, it is large companies that pay the most in taxes. Not true. Corporations paid 18% of the taxes, while individuals paid 82%. What's your tax rate? I can tell you from various conference calls I listen to as a stock investor that the average corporate tax rate of the companies I follow is 12%-15%. I would wager that few here pay that little in taxes.

Archer -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 1:15:07 PM)
All Taxes are individual taxes when it comes down to the bottom line. Those corporate taxes would have been in company coffers and thus gone to share value had they not been taxed out of the system. That share valuation would have been taxed at the individual income level had it passed through to the share holders. Add to that that Corporations simply pass those taxes on to us as consummers anyway. CFO's set a profi margin they seek and then set the price, if the profit margin shifts due to taxes then they simply shift the price around until it returns to the 5-15% profit level they planned for to begin with. But anyhow the story isn't about that it is about the fact that the tax breaks that so many screamed and hollared would break the bank have resulted in increased revenues just like Fiscal Conservatives said they would. They cut taxes and the revenues decreased inthe short term but have since then more than come back and showed even more vigorous increases in tax revenues than predicted. (ie the deficit has been reduced faster than predicted by even the most optimistic fiscal conservatives.

Marc2b -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 1:16:16 PM)
I really don’t understand why people don’t get it. It really is very simple. If you lower taxes, people have more money. If people have more money, they spend more money. The demand for products and services goes up. To meet the increased demand, businesses expand and new businesses are started. More people with jobs equals more tax payers. Conversely, if you raise taxes people have less money. If people have less money they spend less money. The demand for products and services goes down. Decreased production leads to layoffs and business failures – fewer tax payers. People can make all the snide remarks about "economics 1A" or wildly rant about evil conspiracies of the Illuminati (or whoever) they want. It doesn’t matter. This is reality. As to what the government should be spending it’s money on, that’s a whole other debate.

Tuomas -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 1:18:11 PM)
Yes, corporate tax rates are low. However, 12% of $1bn is a lot more than 26% of $50K in total value. But what I meant to say is that the large companies -not necesarily corporations- pay the most taxes in real value, not only from their own proffits in sales and income tax, but also through the taxes paid in lisciencing, fees, transactions and, the important part, employees. I'm not exactly on top of the American taxation system, but in any progressive taxation system, it's a sure bet that the upper elchions of tax pay -direct and indirect- comes from big companies.

Marc2b -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 1:24:26 PM)
quote: All Taxes are individual taxes when it comes down to the bottom line. Bingo! It surprises me how many people don't get that. Corporations don't pay any taxes - it is the consumer who pays them (in higher prices). The corporations just fill out the paper work (and you can be sure the cost of that is passed on to the consummer as well).

Tuomas -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 1:27:51 PM)
Marc, my thoughts exactly. At least in the US there is a system where people are somewhat aware that they pay at least some of the taxes. In a VAT system where all individual contributions are deducted by the employer or salesperson, people have no concept that they are paying for what the government gives them. All they think is "free stuff, woo!!!" ... then wonder why they end up a poor country [:-]

Archer -> RE: The Incredible "Bush Economy". (5/11/2007 1:33:43 PM)
It's the layering of various embedded taxes that go unseen here Tuomas, Mining company pays X taxes and passes them on in their prices, Manufacturing company adds their taxes to the price, transportation adds theirs and then the various wholesale companies. Studies show about 22 cents per dollar we spend goes to embedded taxes here in the US.

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