RE: "College cost crunch felt worldwide, not just in U.S."

RE: "College cost crunch felt worldwide, not just in U.S." (Full Version)

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seeksfemslave -> RE: "College cost crunch felt worldwide, not just in U.S." (5/11/2007 11:57:26 AM)
quote: MC One of the problems with British industry was the management. Queens University used to do research for Yamaha, maybe still do, I don't know, however, before that they used to do research for BSA and Triumph. Not one of the problems MC, the problem. To keep relevent to the thread many of whom were products of our minor public schools and less prestigious universities Oxbridge types find trade a tad dispiriting. Lack of financial resources only become a problem after the onslaught of the Jap m/cycle industry took effect. Up until the late 50's both Triumph and BSA were the main market players but the managers sat on their arses and churned out outdated twins while the Japs gradually encroached producing 175 250 450 650 750 cc bikes of great precision, capable of high reliable revs and thus a performance that left the Brit bikes standing Change the Oil and Filter at regular intervals and a Jap bike will run for ever. The Brit bikes used to change their own Oil by depositing it on the garage floor as a reminder !! As for big plonking Harleys. They are simply massage machines on wheels or an Orgasmatron for the boys lol What else explains their survival ? I well remember when the first Honda 750/4 cylinder bikes were introduced for popular domestic consumption. Then the Kawasaki 2 stroke triple. That used to throw riders up the road it was so powerful. Sold loads they did lol.. Vocational education should get some priority and let the Literati sink or swim according to their circumstance. LadyE points out the abysmal language skills of the average Brit. Thats not to mention foreign languages. Whenever I see a TV programme where a Brit presenter can actually speak French German or Spanish, I even heard a female speaking Arabic once, then I know I am observing a rare speciman indeed. !!

NorthernGent -> RE: "College cost crunch felt worldwide, not just in U.S." (5/11/2007 12:24:37 PM)
V, It sounds the like the usual - Britain is a half-way house between Europe and the US. When I was at university, I left with student loans of £8,000 - $16,000ish - and I had to work in bars to see my way through it - on the plus side though, I did work in holiday camps during the summer term with untold numbers of posh Southern lasses with their daddy's holiday homes on the beach crying out for Northern lads to show them what it's all about - every cloud has a silver lining. In principle, it boils down to what people want out of a society. Should it be a case that only kids from well-off homes are afforded the opportunity of a good education? It's not that great a leap to heriditary wealth, privilege and monarchy - if you're born in the right place, you get opportunity etc.

seeksfemslave -> RE: "College cost crunch felt worldwide, not just in U.S." (5/11/2007 2:27:44 PM)
The problem with that argument, if higher education is to be subsidised , then poor people with limited financial resources have to pay high taxes. NG will understand... Nowt's for Nowt ya know .

Griswold -> RE: "College cost crunch felt worldwide, not just in U.S." (5/11/2007 3:05:37 PM)
(This is news?)

thornhappy -> RE: "College cost crunch felt worldwide, not just in U.S." (5/11/2007 5:56:30 PM)
(quick reply to OP) I first attended UCSB in 1977, and the fees were $238.25 a quarter, books about $120, and if you shared a room, rent was about $150. I worked on campus part time, and had a student loan of about $2500/year for the last 4 years of school. So only one loan covered a lot of costs (my parents made too much money to get grants, but not enough to pay it all, a common problem.) Fees were up to $553 when I left in 1982. When I came back in 1991, fees started at $709 and within 2 years were $1100. My housing costs were about $400 a month. Books were $300 a quarter. I just got promoted to engineer before I went to school, so my income was too high for aid (they calculated it as if I lived at home, not on my own). Loans didn't cover it all. And in the student parking lots you saw a lot of Mercedes, Porche, Audi and a lot fewer beaters & low priced cars. The middle class was squeezed out of the market. The cheapest way to do school is to do the first 2 years at a good community college, then transfer. Several UC campuses had guaranteed admission policies with the one I went to (if you took the right classes with a good GPA, you got in. Even to places like Berkeley). As for U of Phoenix, most corporations and grad schools don't accept those degrees. (gets off the soapbox) thornhappy

minnetar -> RE: "College cost crunch felt worldwide, not just in U.S." (5/11/2007 5:59:13 PM)
i just saw something on the news this evening about Sallie Mae and arrangements with universities with people who were not qualifying for government loans. Need to do some more research but they had mentioned Indiana University. minnetar

LadyEllen -> RE: "College cost crunch felt worldwide, not just in U.S." (5/11/2007 5:59:49 PM)
Just for info, Triumph are still alive and well. We take 2-4 loads of bikes a week to Italy, though nowhere else for some reason.... NG - the highest possible number of youngsters should get higher training, of course. I think our problem though is a fixation on university degrees being the only means to do this. Whats wrong with learning to be a craftsman I wonder? We seem to be cramming every kid into any university course that will take them, when many of them would be better suited to, and society would be better served by, properly trained professionals who work with their hands - plumbers, bricklayers, carpenters, mechanics etc. Maybe its another class issue and this aspiration to be middle class white collar, to view such vital and demanding professions as unsuitable for our children? E

UtopianRanger -> RE: "College cost crunch felt worldwide, not just in U.S." (5/11/2007 8:10:41 PM)
quote: Most science jobs in the UK have lousy pay compared to the work one has to put in for the qualifications, if you can get into the media you will earn far more money. When I lived in Germany I knew many Brits with science, enginnering and engineering design type graduates that left Briatin because you could command far more money in Germany. My guess that is because Thatcher decided to make Britain a low skill, low tax, service economy while Germany still believes in a high skilled, high pay, high tax economy. I can't believe that there are still so many people in Britain that still think Thatcher did a good job. I don't agree with Germany's super high taxes.....but the fact they've put such a critical emphasis on science and engineering is a pure masterstroke. That's definitely a great investment in the country's future. It goes along with my thoughts of converting eighty percent of the attorneys here in the United States into engineers. [8\|] - R

Vendaval -> RE: "College cost crunch felt worldwide, not just in U.S." (5/11/2007 8:40:59 PM)
What? Are you daft man! What would we do without all of the attorneys? We need bait for deep sea fishing! Geesh UT, get your priorities straight already! [8D] quote: ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger It goes along with my thoughts of converting eighty percent of the attorneys here in the United States into engineers. [8\|] - R

UtopianRanger -> RE: "College cost crunch felt worldwide, not just in U.S." (5/11/2007 9:18:58 PM)
quote: What? Are you daft man! What would we do without all of the attorneys? We need bait for deep sea fishing! Geesh UT, get your priorities straight already! We gotta be careful here, Vendaval! I don't our lawyer friends here on the boards upset with you and I ; } - R

Dauric -> RE: "College cost crunch felt worldwide, not just in U.S." (5/11/2007 9:46:41 PM)
I'm actually of a somewhat different mind about college finance reform. Any busines needs to adjust to the market around it. A successful automaker will manufacture cars that are in demand. Gas prices are high, they move to producing smaller more fuel-efficient vehicles, gas prices drop, they start building gigantic urban-tanks that can take an impact at reentry velocities without jostling the drink in the cup holder. If the automaker makes too many of a type of vehicle for the demand, it has to reduce the price to meet the demand-curve. Likewise when there's not enough hybrid-vehicles in a gas-crunch, the price of a hybrid goes up. For the sake of argument, let's view a college as a factory of a sort, it produces a 'Specalist'. Someone educated in a aspecific field of knowledge. Under the current system, regardless of the marketplace's needs, the cost for an education bears little or no resemblance to the actual marketability of those skills. Now, What If: When various studies that allready take place show that there's a deficiency of engineers and that engineering students will get good paying jobs, those degrees went up in price in relation to a degree where there is a glut of them on the market, like web designers [8\|]. Colleges would be encouraged to market degrees that actually stood a chance of being relevant to getting a better career, rather than selling people on a degree that isn't useful enough to get a decent job in their field, but overqualifies them for menial or secretarial jobs (been there, done that...). Keep the other degrees available, then cheap low-career-demand degrees would be affordable to people who just wanted to know how to do something as a passion (cheap web-design degrees would let people have their own personal web pages, for business or just because, that didn't look like crap). On top of that, marketplace pricing for a degree would lessen the burden on those who were less likely to get a good paying job, and place it on those who, by the very nature of the market, could afford to pay the loans back. It's a dreamer's what if. I'm sure that there's issues with it, but any idea has to start somewhere. Just my own $0.02, Dauric.

seeksfemslave -> RE: "College cost crunch felt worldwide, not just in U.S." (5/12/2007 12:49:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen Just for info, Triumph are still alive and well. We take 2-4 loads of bikes a week to Italy, though nowhere else for some reason. True, but relative to Jap production volumes Triumph output is miniscule. and Their sports 600 is a Jap clone and others are overweight monstrous great lumps designed to appeal to the Boulevard posers in where ? yes thats right the USA.. quote: We seem to be cramming every kid into any university course that will take them, when many of them would be better suited to, and society would be better served by, properly trained professionals who work with their hands - plumbers, bricklayers, carpenters, mechanics etc. Such real work is quite arduous and totally unsuitable for those who have a hard exhausting day deciding where to cram more Traffic Lights so as to impede traffic flow to the maximum. Especially if they have just returned fom a fact finding trip to Australia to see how the OZ's do things. quote: Maybe its another class issue and this aspiration to be middle class white collar, to view such vital and demanding professions as unsuitable for our children? E I should have thought no maybe at all.

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