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my own doubts about my submission - 5/12/2007 7:47:47 PM   
kemicca


Posts: 4
Joined: 4/26/2007
Status: offline 		Hey, guys :)  I'm cross-posting this to the sub forum too... I kind of would like the perspective of both dom and sub.  Dom, because I want to know if you've seen something like what I'm describing from your subs.  If it's something that you understand, or you think is out of line from a sub.  If you think I'm being selfish, I guess.  I'm normally get through life without actively seeking a lot of feedback from strangers, but I feel completely lost here.   So any caring doms out there, if you care to give me a dom's perspective on this, I'd really appreciate it.

I've been on this site a little while now and I think I seem to be kind of between a rock and a hard place.  I'm getting a little frustrated because there's a whole world here that I want to be a part of, but I don't know that I can be with my current boyfriend. 

Maybe it's just that we're both inexperienced.  Right now I can't say anything about my own tendencies for certain:  I want to say I have submissive tendencies, but the things I'm tempted to request from my boyfriend to help me explore them feel a little like topping from the bottom.

Here's the thing:  He wants to dominate me.  Sometimes.  We ran a couple of scenes and they were so powerful for me that they flared up this very sudden, very intense interest in exploring my submission further.  Suddenly I'm thinking about things like heavy bondage, humiliation, whipping, face-slapping, orgasm control, sensory deprivation.  I feel like there's a whole world of sensation out there that I want to explore.

But I feel like my boyfriend, although he says he's interested in exploring that, and though he seems to be really into it when we do run a scene (it's been nothing but light bondage as of now), doesn't seem interested in it enough to even want to explore any of this.  He'll text me something sexy about... well, it's always on the same theme: penetration.  I can't count the number of times I've gotten texts with the words "all your holes filled" and such. 

I don't know if I'm being greedy.  I mean, if I'm really submissive, than why would I be asking for more?  Wouldn't I be satisfied with just making him happy?  When I ask myself that... I'm forced to conclude that no, I'm not satisfied.  But Jesus - how does a submissive guide a dominant through something like this?  And again, why would I even do that?  It's the opposite of what I want!

I feel like I'm asking something of him when I shouldn't be asking anything.  The amount of responsibility a dominant must assume is staggering.  How can I possibly ask him to take control over me when he doesn't seem to care one way or another?  How do you tell a person you're asking to dominate you that his constant harping on the same theme is boring and no longer exciting you?  And what does it make me that I'm even having these thoughts?  Am I being selfish and lazy, just wanting him to take control over me but magically do everything that I want?  But communicating this stuff to him just feels so distasteful!  How the hell do you tell your boyfriend that you fantasize about having your face slapped during a scene?  I mean, if he's not coming up with that himself, it must not be something he's interested in.  And that makes it topping from the bottom... right?

Gah.  I just feel so frustrated and upset with myself.  I feel like I'm going in this useless circle and becoming more and more dissatisfied.  Part of it is that we haven't even seen each other in a month and he's been really stressed (the reasons are related, but it's life-stuff that doesn't really need to be gone into).  That will be going away shortly and who knows... maybe once he can focus on me more he'll want to explore his own dominant side more. 

I guess what really concerns me is the fact that we might just not be suited for each other as dom/sub.  But nobody can tell me whether it's worth it to leave a good relationship, a man I love and who just... complements me so well in other ways, to explore fantasies that for all I know, I might grow tired of in a year. 

I don't know that the questions I'm asking even have answers.  I guess I just want to know if they're normal.  If other people have gone through this. I dunno why that's important to me, but it is.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: my own doubts about my submission - 5/12/2007 7:54:31 PM   
minnetar


Posts: 1272
Joined: 4/11/2007
Status: offline 		i am looking forward to you posting it on the sub side as i have some thoughts.


minnetar

(in reply to kemicca)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: my own doubts about my submission - 5/12/2007 8:34:56 PM   
Totalmaster4you


Posts: 1359
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline 		I think you'll find that you are not alone. When you are first begining with an inexperienced Dom you need to communicate what you are curious about. Afterwards you need to talk about what worked and what didn't. The reality of something may be different than your fantasy so you will keep some and discard others. That is all part of the excitement of your journey. Since you've begun this journey with your boyfriend and he seems inclined be what you want and fulfills your needs in nonBDSM areas allow him the time to catch up. you want him to lead but have you told him you want to follow?Don't be overly concerned with topping from the bottom. If you phrase things correctly and look at it as communicating with you maintaining the proper mindset it won;t be topping from the bottom. When you have time, attend some meetings with local groups to learn about techniques and ideas. Hope this helps.

_____________________________

Sometime ago I decided it was time to change my nic. However I didn't wish to disconnect from my original profile. Since then I've signed Touch your mind (TYM or Tym). Opinions in my posts should be taken as my opinion and my opinion only.

(in reply to kemicca)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: my own doubts about my submission - 5/12/2007 8:37:44 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline 		Hello kemicca. What is it that you want? Kink in the bedroom? D/s relationship? You want it all and it's a question of at what level? You want to explore the scene also?

Why don't you start with simply 'asking' for the kink you want and see what progression comes from it? As for submitting? The best way of having 'accidents' in the relationship is have the dominant 'make' you submit, wether this is play or continual. The safest way is for you to submit first in order to recieve domination be it sexual or other. After some time synergy takes over and it goes on automatic pilot.

Why don't you have a nice talk about what would be a nice 'starting point'. Establish limits based more on common sense, safety than fantasy.

Lastly, try to come down from your erotic high a little by channeling a little energy in the D/s aspect of your relationship. Find your symbols of life, daily life (ask for permission once in a while and see how this makes you feel...).

You want your boyfriend to be your dom? Baby steps kemicca, baby steps.You want it all now? Get an experienced dom. You can't have it all at this moment with what you say you have, it does not work 'that' way. Good luck! RL.

(in reply to kemicca)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: my own doubts about my submission - 5/12/2007 8:44:23 PM   
Faramir


Posts: 1043
Joined: 2/12/2005
Status: offline 		Mismatches in kink happen all the time.  You found someone you love, and now, later, you're finding out about your sexuality, and there is likely to be a wide variance between what you perv on and what he does.  Hell, it is incredibly lucky that you have any cross-over at all--wait 'till you see the 150th "Help, I love my spouse but they are vanilla" post.

You are going to have to make some kind of evaluation, and weigh out how important matching in your sexuality is within the totality of your relationship.  Maybe this guy is a 93% match in the rest of your life, and a 30% match in kink. Only person who knows if that is ok, is you.

I will tell you one thing.

You ain't gonna get "tired in a year" of being used and dominated.  You might crave more, harder, more extreme stuff.  but nobody wakes up one day and is like, "Funny, having my cunt beaten and my face slapped used to make me wet to my knees but now it is kinda blah.  I'd like some roses and a day spa certificate."

(in reply to robertolapiedra)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: my own doubts about my submission - 5/12/2007 9:04:52 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline 		Hello Faramir I liked your honest reply. I see now I was being 'wussy' as I was coming from the D/s 24/7 slant, (which honestly alot of people dont even consider as BDSM).

More bluntely, I think kemicca should ask herself if she wants to serve or be 'serviced' in her relationship. I worry about young doms mindfucked from the onset thinking 'this is it? fuck this!'....

If kemicca wants her face slapped in sexslaving, good for her (she know about the extra yearly cost of make up?) but getting slapped by a mindfucked novice dom wont get the 'wet go down to the knees' most of the time as it probably will be very less than perfect. RL.

(in reply to Faramir)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: my own doubts about my submission - 5/12/2007 9:22:33 PM   
Lashra


Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline 		Your human and you have needs. You desire to test the waters of your submission and there is nothing wrong with that. You need to relay these needs to him in the most basic of ways:talk. Sit him down and have an open talk with him about what your feeling, what you need, what your desires are. Yes they may turn him off, but then again they may turn him on. You will never know unless you pursue this conversation with him.

You could suggest some books to him (if he shows interest) that would be beneficial. Your both learning and frankly, I think that is a lot of fun Good luck to you both and I hope it works out for you.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






(in reply to kemicca)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: my own doubts about my submission - 5/12/2007 9:23:52 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		Just because your a submissive doesn't mean you're not entitled to your wants, needs and boundaries. Expressing these things isn't topping from the bottom. Sit and talk with him. I'm betting that if you orchestrate a scene where you get tied up in heavy bondage and he gets to pick a hole while you're there, he'll like it.

BTW, in my (and some others') book bottoming doesn't automatically equal submissive. Bottoming is about an act, submission is about a mind set. They often can and do go together, but not always.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
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Ms Relationship Books
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BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to kemicca)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: my own doubts about my submission - 5/12/2007 10:13:05 PM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Dump this pathetic human and find a real dom like me.  I can read minds, predict the future, I know all about your formation as a child and how that has affected your tastes as an adult, I am incapable of making a mistake, I am never in a bad mood or have a bad day, and my cum always tastes delicious.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: my own doubts about my submission - 5/12/2007 10:48:29 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

Dump this pathetic human and find a real dom like me.  I can read minds, predict the future, I know all about your formation as a child and how that has affected your tastes as an adult, I am incapable of making a mistake, I am never in a bad mood or have a bad day, and my cum always tastes delicious.


Thats it! I'm getting new locks and heavier gauge chains for my slave! Mike!You bad tempting devil ! RL.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: my own doubts about my submission - 5/13/2007 9:53:27 AM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		There is topping from the bottom and there is negotiating a scene.

Negotiation would be you letting him know what you would like to explore and him telling you how he would implement it and you agreeing.

Topping from the bottom would be you telling him what he would do to dominate you.

Take it from someone who has been there; getting past social programming to let the rougher side of yourself out can be difficult.  I have to KNOW what is allowable before I can let that side of myself out to play.  I don't do guesswork or mind reading very well and, frankly, fear where I could go without some negotiated limits.

Stefan

quote:

ORIGINAL: kemicca

Hey, guys :)  I'm cross-posting this to the sub forum too... I kind of would like the perspective of both dom and sub.  Dom, because I want to know if you've seen something like what I'm describing from your subs.  If it's something that you understand, or you think is out of line from a sub.  If you think I'm being selfish, I guess.  I'm normally get through life without actively seeking a lot of feedback from strangers, but I feel completely lost here.   So any caring doms out there, if you care to give me a dom's perspective on this, I'd really appreciate it.

I've been on this site a little while now and I think I seem to be kind of between a rock and a hard place.  I'm getting a little frustrated because there's a whole world here that I want to be a part of, but I don't know that I can be with my current boyfriend. 

Maybe it's just that we're both inexperienced.  Right now I can't say anything about my own tendencies for certain:  I want to say I have submissive tendencies, but the things I'm tempted to request from my boyfriend to help me explore them feel a little like topping from the bottom.

Here's the thing:  He wants to dominate me.  Sometimes.  We ran a couple of scenes and they were so powerful for me that they flared up this very sudden, very intense interest in exploring my submission further.  Suddenly I'm thinking about things like heavy bondage, humiliation, whipping, face-slapping, orgasm control, sensory deprivation.  I feel like there's a whole world of sensation out there that I want to explore.

But I feel like my boyfriend, although he says he's interested in exploring that, and though he seems to be really into it when we do run a scene (it's been nothing but light bondage as of now), doesn't seem interested in it enough to even want to explore any of this.  He'll text me something sexy about... well, it's always on the same theme: penetration.  I can't count the number of times I've gotten texts with the words "all your holes filled" and such. 

I don't know if I'm being greedy.  I mean, if I'm really submissive, than why would I be asking for more?  Wouldn't I be satisfied with just making him happy?  When I ask myself that... I'm forced to conclude that no, I'm not satisfied.  But Jesus - how does a submissive guide a dominant through something like this?  And again, why would I even do that?  It's the opposite of what I want!

I feel like I'm asking something of him when I shouldn't be asking anything.  The amount of responsibility a dominant must assume is staggering.  How can I possibly ask him to take control over me when he doesn't seem to care one way or another?  How do you tell a person you're asking to dominate you that his constant harping on the same theme is boring and no longer exciting you?  And what does it make me that I'm even having these thoughts?  Am I being selfish and lazy, just wanting him to take control over me but magically do everything that I want?  But communicating this stuff to him just feels so distasteful!  How the hell do you tell your boyfriend that you fantasize about having your face slapped during a scene?  I mean, if he's not coming up with that himself, it must not be something he's interested in.  And that makes it topping from the bottom... right?

Gah.  I just feel so frustrated and upset with myself.  I feel like I'm going in this useless circle and becoming more and more dissatisfied.  Part of it is that we haven't even seen each other in a month and he's been really stressed (the reasons are related, but it's life-stuff that doesn't really need to be gone into).  That will be going away shortly and who knows... maybe once he can focus on me more he'll want to explore his own dominant side more. 

I guess what really concerns me is the fact that we might just not be suited for each other as dom/sub.  But nobody can tell me whether it's worth it to leave a good relationship, a man I love and who just... complements me so well in other ways, to explore fantasies that for all I know, I might grow tired of in a year. 

I don't know that the questions I'm asking even have answers.  I guess I just want to know if they're normal.  If other people have gone through this. I dunno why that's important to me, but it is.


(in reply to kemicca)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: my own doubts about my submission - 5/13/2007 10:13:27 AM   
SimplyMichael


Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		Sarcasm aside, MercTech is right.  The times I have really been able to let myself go and not worry about who I am playing with is only with very very experienced people, one in particular comes to mind.  I knew I didn't have to make sure about anything because she would not fear telling me what was going on.  I HATE having to drag shit out of a submissive about concerns or fears.

You want to control a scene?  Its easy, don't tell your partner your issues, don't tell him your concerns, don't tell him what does and doesn't work.  Make the fucker guess, then you can post and whine about how he doesn't do it right, does it too hard or soft, doesn't "get" you etc.  I don't care on some levels what restrictions/limits someone puts on our play, but if I find out too many times something wasn't said, someone can't share their boundaries with me, I will drop them sooner over that than I would over drama.

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: my own doubts about my submission - 5/13/2007 10:27:22 AM   
fairerthanshe


Posts: 3035
Joined: 1/18/2007
Status: offline 		Greetings all,

I feel the same as SimplyMichael - from the other side of the kneel - if i want to play with someone, I am very clear as to what i love, like, don't like, and all hard limits, both mental and physical.  I make it clear the kind of reactions he might see and what they mean.  It is the responsibility of the sub to make clear her expectations while negotiating a scene and not leave it to the Dom to figure out or "get". 

We had some friends over the other night, just hanging out on the front porch, and one of the Dom's went to get his toy bag out of the car.  We ended up doing a little wax demonstration and though we had never played together before, within 5 minutes discussion we had a reasonable grasp of what to expect from each other.  He asked me questions afterwards to assertain my responses and get me to verbalize so he had adequate feedback as well.  Sometimes my headspace is such that my only response in the immediate will be, "That was great." With a few minutes to process, I can be more descriptive and let him know how i felt and what in particular really worked for me. It's not that difficult to do and i don't believe that i top from below. 

That's just my two coppers worth - take it or leave it.

well wishes,

fairer than she

P.S. i know this should have been in the other thread - I really liked what SimplyMichael had to say about this issue and wanted to reply within that context. 


< Message edited by fairerthanshe -- 5/13/2007 10:31:14 AM >

_____________________________

The Nuclear Bomb of Awesome, rockin' the MoFo Hawk, still a bad-ass with a bouncy attitude, and spreading joy as a predator in Hello Kitty panties

Recently honored with membership in the West Coast Assholes

(in reply to SimplyMichael)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: my own doubts about my submission - 5/13/2007 11:37:53 PM   
ErusUxor


Posts: 44
Joined: 4/22/2007
Status: offline 		boy oh boy.....i remember when I finally realized that I "needed" to express my submission. It came upon me like a thunder strike.... and it confussed me and scared me to death. I talked about it ALOT....my poor Masters bleeding ears... He wasn't my Master at the time....but I wanted him to be more than anything I'd ever wanted before...

Being new to these feelings can be very confussing, especially when you hear  82 different opinions about what it means to be "submissive". Basically you need to remember, above everything else,  that assholes and opinions are something we all have and like it or not you will have your own too. Having opinions is a very basic human act that you cannot escape from. Having desires is something you don't want to escape from. Not to be a cynic here....but when you get down to it every relationship is about people getting what they want and need from each other....we use each other to find fulfillments that we cannot find alone...

You MUST communicate....because he cannot read your mind. Unfortunately, many people (and I've noticed that women tend to do this more) think that if "he doesn't do it without my asking then he doesn't really want to/dosen't really love me/isn't interested". How can we know if someone is interested if we don't specifically ask....

Request...don't demand and you shouldn't have to worry yourself about "topping from the bottom". I would recommend that if you are going to request something new or different that it be done outside of a scene...as that is probably not the ideal time for that type of communication.

Best of luck to you in navigating this "lifestyle"

_____________________________




When they said "penny for your thoughts" ...I had to try and figure out how to make change.

(in reply to fairerthanshe)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: my own doubts about my submission - 5/14/2007 12:27:11 AM   
MistressNoName


Posts: 664
Joined: 10/26/2006
Status: offline 		Kemicca,

A word of unsolicited advice, do try to avoid cliches such as "topping from the bottom," etc...Seems to me that one is used so much, the meaning is often lost in translation. And you are so new to this wonderful exploration that you should try to leave your mind as open as you can and not to fill it full of potential self-judgments.

And the other thing I wanted to suggest to you is that you might simply not be submissive...you might be a bottom. Someone who just enjoys bottoming in various scenes/situations. There are many people who identify this way and do not consider themselves to be submissive nor a slave. And it is a perfectly valid identification.

Try staying in the here-and-now as you explore and not get too future-oriented...ie, try not to worry so much about your and your boyfriend's compatibility along kinky lines just yet...instead, keep lines of communication wide-open and try to make this a positive, fun exploration, as much as is humanly possible. Asks lots of questions, explore your local bdsm community, read, read, read....

and "welcome to the real world..."

MNN

(in reply to ErusUxor)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: my own doubts about my submission - 5/14/2007 4:08:07 AM   
Valyraen


Posts: 746
Joined: 2/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kemicca
But I feel like my boyfriend, although he says he's interested in exploring that, and though he seems to be really into it when we do run a scene (it's been nothing but light bondage as of now), doesn't seem interested in it enough to even want to explore any of this.  He'll text me something sexy about... well, it's always on the same theme: penetration.  I can't count the number of times I've gotten texts with the words "all your holes filled" and such. 

I don't know if I'm being greedy.  I mean, if I'm really submissive, than why would I be asking for more?  Wouldn't I be satisfied with just making him happy?  When I ask myself that... I'm forced to conclude that no, I'm not satisfied.  But Jesus - how does a submissive guide a dominant through something like this?  And again, why would I even do that?  It's the opposite of what I want!


When Aqua and I got together a year and a half ago (to the day, today), I was absolutely, totally, and utterly vanilla, with some kinky fantasies. My first foray into BDSM was when she opened her toy box and said to me, "You can use these on me anytime you're ready." Since then, a great deal of my exploration in the lifestyle has been with her guidance... she knew what she wanted and what worked for her, and she had enough confidence to tell me, which I'm very thankful for. If I'd been left to my own devices, we'd probably still be a 'nilla relationship. Lack of exploration of something on his part doesn't necessarily mean that he's not interested... it just means that he hasn't explored it. I probably would never have picked up a flogger if it weren't for Aqua - certainly not because of a lack of interest or enthusiasm, but simply because I'd never have thought of it.

quote:


I feel like I'm asking something of him when I shouldn't be asking anything.  The amount of responsibility a dominant must assume is staggering.  How can I possibly ask him to take control over me when he doesn't seem to care one way or another?  How do you tell a person you're asking to dominate you that his constant harping on the same theme is boring and no longer exciting you?  And what does it make me that I'm even having these thoughts?  Am I being selfish and lazy, just wanting him to take control over me but magically do everything that I want?  But communicating this stuff to him just feels so distasteful!  How the hell do you tell your boyfriend that you fantasize about having your face slapped during a scene?  I mean, if he's not coming up with that himself, it must not be something he's interested in.  And that makes it topping from the bottom... right?


How do you tell someone? The short, flippant answer is that you open your mouth. Having been on the other end of this question myself, the flippant answer doesn't help at all... so I'd advise just sitting down (when the two of you have the time to devote to a long, serious discussion) and talking about it. There are very few mind readers in the human race, and fewer still in BDSM... so that means the best vehicle we've got for expressing our thoughts and feelings is good, old-fashioned conversation. To put it bluntly, get over your distaste and talk to him.

quote:


I guess what really concerns me is the fact that we might just not be suited for each other as dom/sub.  But nobody can tell me whether it's worth it to leave a good relationship, a man I love and who just... complements me so well in other ways, to explore fantasies that for all I know, I might grow tired of in a year. 

I don't know that the questions I'm asking even have answers.  I guess I just want to know if they're normal.  If other people have gone through this. I dunno why that's important to me, but it is.


You're right: no one can tell you whether it's worth it. That's something that you've got to decide for yourself. Don't jump the gun, though; there's a chance that your dom is sticking to only things that he knows precisely because they're tried-and-true, because they're safe. I know that my first forays into dominance were very tentative - only as I grew more comfortable with myself did I become more self-confident in my relationship with Aqua. Our play sessions were very basic, at first, because I wasn't ready to move into anything more elaborate.

What I've said can be boiled down into this: talk to him. It's entirely possible that he's got some dark desires (augh! So bloody cliche!) tucked away in there that he's not yet felt secure enough to express. Took me a long, long time to feel comfortable expressing my wants to Aqua because I was afraid of the possible reaction that I'd get. Be open and honest... and armed with that information, about what each of you wants out of your relationship, decide what, if anything, you want to do.

Valyraen

_____________________________

CM's Resident Fuzzy Kitteh

There is no creature more loving than a hungry cat.

Valyraen in ValyraenandAqua

(in reply to kemicca)
Profile   Post #: 16
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