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RE: Will Joe Jump? - 5/13/2007 7:32:41 PM

TheHeretic

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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

My brother....The problem is our County is not in the Middle East.

But a serious piece of the foundation of our economy IS. And since the caribou and unspoiled views for the surfers are far more important than the lives of our soldiers....

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 21

RE: Will Joe Jump? - 5/13/2007 7:52:22 PM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

If our soldiers lives were important, we would have taken the 300 Billion wasted in Iraq, and used it to invest in the infrastructure needed to supply our own energy needs.

We made our choices about what to do with that 300 Billion dollars. Keeping soldiers alive wasn't part of it.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 22

RE: Will Joe Jump? - 5/13/2007 7:54:43 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

I surf. I like caribou.

I am not following how these relate to a definition of victory in the Middle East?

Please clarify.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 23

RE: Will Joe Jump? - 5/13/2007 7:57:26 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I am still waiting for one of you pro-Middle-East invasion supporters to define what a victory in the Middle East actually means.

       Considering that my reaction when it became obvious that we were going to invade Iraq was an "oh fuck" sort of resignation, followed by total revulsion at the behavior of people I once thought were on the same side I was, I don't have much in the way of party spin on hand.

      My opinion is that pulling out and leaving chaos in our wake is even dumber than the decisions that got us here to begin with. I'll settle for any form of stabilty up to and including some especially nasty Iraqi Colonel (I was kidding the first time I raised that idea, not anymore. Fuck-em.).

     What influence did the anti-war movement have on the '72 election? I'm most curious for your thoughts.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 24

RE: Will Joe Jump? - 5/13/2007 8:08:08 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I surf. I like caribou.

I am not following how these relate to a definition of victory in the Middle East?

Please clarify.

Sinergy

Please re-read my post, Sinergy. "My" defintion of victory is stability. Did I need to add the word "definition" in bold and maybe a few arrows?

I assume that those who read my posts have sufficient reasoning skills to discern that a reference to caribou and unspoiled ocean views would be a reference to our own, domestic oil supply that we can't use because of environmental restrictions. If I was in error, I apologize for overestimating your intellect.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 25

RE: Will Joe Jump? - 5/13/2007 8:09:43 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I am still waiting for one of you pro-Middle-East invasion supporters to define what a victory in the Middle East actually means.

      Considering that my reaction when it became obvious that we were going to invade Iraq was an "oh fuck" sort of resignation, followed by total revulsion at the behavior of people I once thought were on the same side I was, I don't have much in the way of party spin on hand.

     My opinion is that pulling out and leaving chaos in our wake is even dumber than the decisions that got us here to begin with. I'll settle for any form of stabilty up to and including some especially nasty Iraqi Colonel (I was kidding the first time I raised that idea, not anymore. Fuck-em.).

    What influence did the anti-war movement have on the '72 election? I'm most curious for your thoughts.

So technically, your definition of victory is a resigned "keep killing our troops and Iraqi citizens, as well as bankrupting our country because throwing good money and troops after bad is important because AnencephalyBoy invaded and the rest of us have to suffer for his lunacy." Your backup information is that it is justified to be in civil war and chaos ONLY as long as we are there to be shot and blown up and reviled on the planet, as opposed to admitting a large percentage of our population believed the administration that we should be there, largely because a bunch of incompetent draft dodgers stuck us there in the first place.

Thank you for making my point about the general idiocy of people who support the war in Iraq.

It has been 20 years since I studied Vietnam, but from what I recall Nixon betrayed the Republican party by running on a platform that included pulling our troops out of Vietnam. He did this because Nixon rightly perceived that the people in the United States thought Vietnam was a stupid boondoggle and going against the Democratic Presidents who kept pontificating that they did not want to be the first US President to lose a war would usher him in to the White House.

Did I answer your questions clearly?

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 26

RE: Will Joe Jump? - 5/13/2007 8:14:30 PM

Real0ne

Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline

well that and we just give the ME lots of reasons to do exactly what this administration claims.

like crap on your neighbors door step and expect them to say thanks!

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

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Post #: 27

RE: Will Joe Jump? - 5/13/2007 8:21:18 PM

Real0ne

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
"My" defintion of victory is stability.

i would agree that could be considered victory however history will show that in the ME there will never be "stability" as long as foreign feet are making prints in "their" sand.

Not gonna happen in yours or my lifetime imo.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 28

RE: Will Joe Jump? - 5/13/2007 8:33:56 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I am still waiting for one of you pro-Middle-East invasion supporters to define what a victory in the Middle East actually means.

     Considering that my reaction when it became obvious that we were going to invade Iraq was an "oh fuck" sort of resignation, followed by total revulsion at the behavior of people I once thought were on the same side I was, I don't have much in the way of party spin on hand.

    My opinion is that pulling out and leaving chaos in our wake is even dumber than the decisions that got us here to begin with. I'll settle for any form of stabilty up to and including some especially nasty Iraqi Colonel (I was kidding the first time I raised that idea, not anymore. Fuck-em.).

   What influence did the anti-war movement have on the '72 election? I'm most curious for your thoughts.

So technically, your definition of victory is a resigned "keep killing our troops and Iraqi citizens, as well as bankrupting our country because throwing good money and troops after bad is important because AnencephalyBoy invaded and the rest of us have to suffer for his lunacy." Your backup information is that it is justified to be in civil war and chaos ONLY as long as we are there to be shot and blown up and reviled on the planet, as opposed to admitting a large percentage of our population believed the administration that we should be there, largely because a bunch of incompetent draft dodgers stuck us there in the first place.

Thank you for making my point about the general idiocy of people who support the war in Iraq.

It has been 20 years since I studied Vietnam, but from what I recall Nixon betrayed the Republican party by running on a platform that included pulling our troops out of Vietnam. He did this because Nixon rightly perceived that the people in the United States thought Vietnam was a stupid boondoggle and going against the Democratic Presidents who kept pontificating that they did not want to be the first US President to lose a war would usher him in to the White House.

Did I answer your questions clearly?

Sinergy

Not in any way. But since you managed to totally alter the position I articulated into something you feel competent to discuss, I'll leave you to it.

Perhaps the difficulty is that your concept of victory is hurting the attacker badly enough that you can run away and call the police. This is a trifle more complicated than that.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 29

RE: Will Joe Jump? - 5/13/2007 8:47:35 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Not in any way. But since you managed to totally alter the position I articulated into something you feel competent to discuss, I'll leave you to it.

Perhaps the difficulty is that your concept of victory is hurting the attacker badly enough that you can run away and call the police. This is a trifle more complicated than that.

Exactly how is it more complicated?

Your initial response was "well, it is fucked up so we should stay."

I simply pointed out that:

1) The US fucked it up.

2) We are not doing anything to fix the problem.

3) No matter how long we stay we will not fix the problem.

4) We are subjecting our own economy, our own military, and our standing in the world to a vicious and non-consensual ass raping.

5) The longer we stay the more people die.

If you would be willing to provide an actual concrete rational supporting our continued being there, I am willing to hear it, but the one you have chosen to provide is as idiotic and inarticulate and unrealistic as when AnencephalyBoy says it.

I have provided sources. I have provided expert analysis from experts on Middle East affairs on this or other threads.

The source you cited was to state that I should read the Economist. I asked you to provide a specific article to support your opinion. Presumably you will post a link.

You are entitled to your opinion, TheHeretic.

I am equally entitled to my opinion which is that most of the people who insist we should stay there are uneducated, inarticulate, unrealistic, idiotic, and incapable of presenting a cogent analysis of the situation or providing a workable solution.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 30

RE: Will Joe Jump? - 5/13/2007 8:54:36 PM

dcnovice

Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
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quote:

I assume that those who read my posts have sufficient reasoning skills to discern that a reference to caribou and unspoiled ocean views would be a reference to our own, domestic oil supply that we can't use because of environmental restrictions.

I can't speak to the ocean views, but I think I've read that drilling in ANWR would only yield about six months' worth of oil. Don't have a source handy, alas.

_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 31

RE: Will Joe Jump? - 5/13/2007 9:10:15 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

Presume to your little heart's content, Sinergy. Build a nice little straw man for yourself to play with.

You don't seem to comprehend anything that doesn't reconcile with your schoolboy, name-calling paradigm. We've done all this before. Tonight I think I'll just watch a movie and get my dick sucked.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 32

RE: Will Joe Jump? - 5/14/2007 12:41:23 AM

farglebargle

Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I surf. I like caribou.

I am not following how these relate to a definition of victory in the Middle East?

Please clarify.

Sinergy

Please re-read my post, Sinergy. "My" defintion of victory is stability. Did I need to add the word "definition" in bold and maybe a few arrows?

I assume that those who read my posts have sufficient reasoning skills to discern that a reference to caribou and unspoiled ocean views would be a reference to our own, domestic oil supply that we can't use because of environmental restrictions. If I was in error, I apologize for overestimating your intellect.

The point is to NOT BURN THE OIL, as we need it for making Tupperware.

The point is WITH THE MONEY WASTED ON THE INVASION AND OCCUPATION OF IRAQ WE COULD HAVE ALREADY REPLACED OIL AS OUR PRIMARY SOURCE OF ENERGY.

War or The Stars.

Bush is a fucking idiot.

_____________________________

It's not every generation that gets to watch a civilization fall. Looks like we're in for a hell of a show.

ברוך אתה, אדוני אלוקינו, ריבון העולמים, מי יוצר צמחים ריחניים

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 33

RE: Will Joe Jump? - 5/14/2007 8:37:37 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Tonight I think I'll just watch a movie and get my dick sucked.

Thank you for clarifying which of your heads does the thinking.

Next time you attack me for my opinion, it would be useful to hear an erudite and articulate analysis of your own opinion. If this is beyond your capabilities, I completely understand.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 34

RE: Will Joe Jump? - 5/14/2007 9:17:54 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Tonight I think I'll just watch a movie and get my dick sucked.

Thank you for clarifying which of your heads does the thinking.

Next time you attack me for my opinion, it would be useful to hear an erudite and articulate analysis of your own opinion. If this is beyond your capabilities, I completely understand.

Sinergy

A wise man once told me that the adult male body contains enough blood to properly operate either a brain, or a penis. Since you kept reading things I hadn't written, perhaps I wasn't the only one with an itch which needed scratching.

Or are you just trying to get me adrenalized?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 35

RE: Will Joe Jump? - 5/14/2007 9:30:37 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

A wise man once told me that the adult male body contains enough blood to properly operate either a brain, or a penis. Since you kept reading things I hadn't written, perhaps I wasn't the only one with an itch which needed scratching.

I completely understand.

There was an interesting article about neural plasticity in Discover last month. Apparently, if you exercise your brain by forcing it to learn new things, you can increase the white mass in your brain.

In the final analysis, TheHeretic, your approach is to not say anything and attack opinions you dont agree with. Then, when the person defends themself from your attack, you take the approach of saying "I never said that" and "strawman" and the like.

Since I am not really emotionally involved either way, here is your Brownie Point proving that you won the discussion, whatever you think it was about.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 36

RE: Will Joe Jump? - 5/14/2007 9:46:51 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

A wise man once told me that the adult male body contains enough blood to properly operate either a brain, or a penis. Since you kept reading things I hadn't written, perhaps I wasn't the only one with an itch which needed scratching.

I completely understand.

There was an interesting article about neural plasticity in Discover last month. Apparently, if you exercise your brain by forcing it to learn new things, you can increase the white mass in your brain.

In the final analysis, TheHeretic, your approach is to not say anything and attack opinions you dont agree with. Then, when the person defends themself from your attack, you take the approach of saying "I never said that" and "strawman" and the like.

Since I am not really emotionally involved either way, here is your Brownie Point proving that you won the discussion, whatever you think it was about.

Sinergy

         Hmm. Thanks for the factoid. With all I have to learn on this new job, I might be off playing in the physics threads soon (NOT!).

       I accuse you of straw man tactics because those are what you use. You put words in peoples mouths that you can easily mock, about as often as some others put despicable values in their hearts.

    Been there, done that.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 37

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