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CTclay -> RE: BDSM lifestyle VS Christianity/Religion (5/15/2005 1:51:27 PM)
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quote:
I'm a committed christian and in my mind the two different value systems don't fit. The sex that I enjoy, the power exchange, the kinkiness, even masterbation....is considered 'wrong'.
I'm going through the same struggle, and I'm on the verge of jumping out of BDSM. I struggled when I was in a BDSM relationship, too, and it's very, very difficult when you're in a relationship.
Marriage solves most of the conflicts between BDSM and the Church, I think, but if you're not married, for most Christian denominations it essentially comes down to a question of whether nonmarital sex is sinful.
The Bible has been mentioned in this thread a lot, but the mentions seem to focus on Deuterotomy, the Old Testament and St. Paul. Except for Deuterotomy, those sources are actually pretty authoritative for all but liberal Protestant churches, but the biggest obstacle is Jesus Himself. He Himself condemned fornication, and He Himself broadened Jewish strictures about sex to the realm of looking at someone with lust in your heart (Matthew 5:27-28). I haven't recently looked it up, but you'll find Him talking about fornication in the Gospels.
If I remember correctly, doesn't he tell the woman he saved from stoning to "sin no more"?
I don't know how you can get to an interpretation of sex outside of marriage being OK with The Man Himself.
FangsNFeet says the priest he confessed to told him that "just fornication" was more of a recommendation or advisory. Well, it's not as serious as adultery (it's considered a subcategory of the commandment about adultery), but there just isn't any way around it within the Catholic Church: it's a sin.
In most Protestant denominations, tradition holds some sway theologically, in addition to scripture, and you can point to it as at least a minor authority. In Catholic theology, we find the Bible extremely important, but believe the Pope is authorized to settle interpretation of it and make other decisions about what to believe and why, based both on the Bible and also on theological reasoning. For Catholics, the stricture on masturbation is much more about theological reasoning than any particular Bible passage.
The big Catholic problem with sex (but I admit I'm no expert) is that each human being is supposed to be treated with love for that person's own benefit when it comes to sex. Any use of the other person for sex that isn't an expression of love and doesn't take into account that person's desires is sinful under Catholic teaching -- even if the sex takes place within marriage. Outside of marriage, I guess, it's just assumed that that won't take place -- or it's assumed that it is so much more likely that you'll use the other person for your benefit and not the other person's benefit that (I guess for the sake of prudence), sex outside of marriage is banned.
Within marriage, you can have sex even if you're not doing it for procreation -- otherwise the rhythm method of birth control wouldn't be allowed.
I'm not sure if what I described is correct, but if it is, then a master/slave relationship, even within marriage, could be problematic. Certainly anything abusive is absolutely sinful. Any attitude on the part of either master or slave that the slave's actions are all for the master's benefit would be sinful (whether we're talking about sex or anything else in the relationship). But a loving relationship is a loving relationship, and it will involve doing things out of love. As long as its safe, and as long as each party (no matter what kind of play is involved) really recognizes the underlying dignity of the other person, I don't see how Catholic theology would condemn it.
Here's a link to the Catholic Catechism, specifically the section about marriage:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p2s2c3a7.htm#III
The paragraphs are numbered. Paragraph 1645 says both husband and wife must have "dignity" in the marriage. Of course, that just can't rule out play. Paragraph 1654 clearly implies that not all sex needs to be for procreation. 1664 rules out polygamy.
Here's an even more relevant section of the catechism:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm#III
Paragraph 2334 talks (very briefly) about "equal personal dignity" in marriage. Paragraphs 2390 and 2391 talk about sex outside of marriage.
I'm not going into all this because I find it particularly easy to understand -- I find it hard to understand and hard to agree with. I believe, ultimately, in Catholicism, and I think I'm going to wind up believing this part of it more firmly and eventually conforming my own life to it.
Ultimately, I believe God gave Peter, the Popes, the Church, the authority to set standards -- rules -- and it's my duty to submit to them. It's so difficult, though. So I'm faced with either sexual frustration or spiritual frustration. I'm not so sure that changing my beliefs to conform with my submissive desires is the real answer though. I found that my BDSM desires have changed over time, and maybe desires are easier to change than beliefs. I know I can't really "choose" to believe something. I either am convinced or I'm not convinced, if I'm being honest with myself.
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