Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (Full Version)

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misundersub -> Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 6:52:00 AM)

I would like to ask the Master's/Dom's/Sir's here a question RE punishments.

I am new to the Lifestyle and have just found my Master so it isnt really related to me personally but it gave me cause for concern. (this conversation was b4 my Master)

Recently I was chatting to a Dom and after about 20 mins of 'questioning' I finally found it in myself to ask him 'how he if his subs/slaves had been disobedient, did he punish them?' and to b quite frank i was appalled when he answered quite blatantly 'with my fist's or feet sub'! I had to ask him again to clarify what he meant just so I was sure I hadnt misunderstood him and asked did he mean to actually beat them up with his fists or feet, to which he answered 'Of Course, how else?

I was quite repulsed and politely hauled my ass outta there, but what I wondered is, is this Dom truely a Dom or just a bully preying on submissive women and I know the sub/slave gives her consent but Im just grateful I had the foresight to ask such a question, I dont know why I did but I feel my instincts kicked in somewhere in that convo, and being as I am in training with my Master I do know he is wrong but why oh why do some Doms feel/think that kind of punishment is acceptable?

misundersub



leatherylace -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 6:57:32 AM)

What is a resonable punishment



siamsa24 -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 6:57:34 AM)

I know I am not a male dominant, but I have what may be a piece of an answer.
As is being disscussed in another thread, some people that are in BDSM relationship are in them because they are abusers and they see it as an acceptable way to abuse their partner. This is not "right" but it's the way that things go sometimes.



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 7:04:20 AM)

Just because it's not part of your kink doesn't make it abusive. Some people really love punching, kicking, beating, insulting, etc.

BDSM is not all flowers and roses and sweetness. Sometimes it's downright harsh and cruel. Some people like it like that.

Now, YOU certainly don't have to like it, YOU certainly don't have to get involved with a dominant who likes it.

But just because its a lot more physically violent than what you're accustomed to does not make it bullying, no more than a dom calling his slave a worthless piece of cunthole good for nothing more than getting a cock shoved into her is actually wrong or abusive.



Kindred2Evil -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 7:23:48 AM)

This is a prime example of why negotiations should always take place. You should be clear in what you like, dislike, what your hard limits are etc etc. For you maybe being punches borders on or is abuse, for another it may be their key to hitting subspace.
I have a friend who is masochistic and LOVES being slapped in the face, it puts her into the right headspace and gives her a thrill like nothing else can...personally I'd knock the shit out of someone who slapped me, even as a joke or for fun.
Acceptence of our differences is what makes the community strong. Don't knock it, just decide if it's for you or not and leave it at that.



siamsa24 -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 7:25:08 AM)

I said some people. I was not saying that was the case with this person, I don't even know them. I was just saying that it happens.



mistoferin -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 7:31:30 AM)

The original question asked had nothing to do with kink, likes or dislikes, it was asked in regards to punishment. Punishment is not about what you like or how it takes you to subspace.

I am sorry but any Dominant who stated that this was his method of punishment would be considered to be not only abusive in my eyes....I would also consider him to be quite clueless. If that is his preferred method of correcting inappropriate behavior, I think that it shows that he understands very little about the training, growth and guidance of a submissive.



ruffnecksbabygir -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 7:32:54 AM)

if the sub/slave accepts it willingly and takes her punishment no matter how severe it is and it's a consentual relationship between adults how is that abusive?
i usually get punished physically, and pretty damn hard too....i don't feel i am being "abused", i'm not his victim i am his slave and it is my will to accept anything he gives me.

In other words, to each his own.



BobcatsLilMinx -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 7:35:12 AM)

It all comes down to "consent"... if his subs were aware that he would punish them in this way and begged his collar, then that is really their business. It takes all sorts...



darksparkle -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 8:27:23 AM)




Safe, Sane & Consensual does not come to mind if emotions are not in check when administering any form of punishment.

The conception that when a slave enters into a TPE anything the master does to the slave is considered acceptable behavior is very flawed.

If the punishment creates emotional imbalance it is abusive.


Edited to rephrase.....
If any action creates emotional imbalance, whether it be punishment or play, it is abuse.


To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it.
-G.K. Chesterton



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 8:29:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: darksparkle
The conception that when a slave enters into a TPE anything the master does to the slave is considered acceptable behavior is very flawed.

Agreed. But when a slave enters a relationship KNOWING the type of punishment she will receive, the slave obviously has said that this is acceptable behavior for her.
quote:


If the punishment creates emotional imbalance it is abusive.

What do you consider imbalance? Punishment almost always causes some sort of distress in the sub.




ruffnecksbabygir -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 8:35:30 AM)

depends i guess what you mean by emotional imbalance....i get emotionally imbalanced by anything from a hot session to a severe punishment....hell, i am emotionally imbalanced in general lol...but i go into an emotional roller coaster of sorts when in any type of session that takes me over the edge and breaks down my barriers, again, whether it's in play or punishment.



darksparkle -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 9:11:52 AM)


quote:

EmeraldSlave2
quote:


If the punishment creates emotional imbalance it is abusive.

What do you consider imbalance? Punishment almost always causes some sort of distress in the sub.

If the action is destructive to the overall well being of the slave.


quote:

EmeraldSlave2

quote:

ORIGINAL: darksparkle
The conception that when a slave enters into a TPE anything the master does to the slave is considered acceptable behavior is very flawed.

Agreed. But when a slave enters a relationship KNOWING the type of punishment she will receive, the slave obviously has said that this is acceptable behavior for her.

When a master takes on the responsibility of a slave is not the master responsible for the welfare of the slave?

If the slave consents to behavior that is unhealthy & destructive to it's well being does that make it acceptable?



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 9:14:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: darksparkle
If the action is destructive to the overall well being of the slave. [/color]

OK, I can agree with that.


quote:

ORIGINAL: darksparkle
If the slave consents to behavior that is unhealthy & destructive to it's well being does that make it acceptable?[/color]

Unhealthy and destructive in who's eyes?

If the slave consented to it willingly, and then changes her mind, that's fine. But she has to be honest about that, that doesn't make the master wrong or abusive- it means the slave changed their mind.

If the slave consented to it willingly, and doesn't change her mind, then we have to assume that SHE doesn't consider it unhealthy or destructive and neither does the master.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 9:30:14 AM)

quote:

If any action creates emotional imbalance, whether it be punishment or play, it is abuse.


that's it, no longer will this slave be abused by Hallmark commercials...next time one comes on, this slave promises to flip the channel.

seriously, though......why oh why does the importance of knowing what you are getting yourself into seem so hard for people to grasp. any sub or slave belonging to the OP's "Dom in question", at least in theory, should have done her homework and found out if this sort of punishment is or is not a hard limit....and made the choice to abide by it, or NOT, before ever entering into the relationship with him. Echoing Emeraldlave2, if she changed her mind about it afterwards, she can always ask for release.



darksparkle -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 11:15:37 AM)

quote:

EmeraldSlave2
If the slave consented to it willingly, and doesn't change her mind, then we have to
assume that SHE doesn't consider it unhealthy or destructive and neither does the
master.

True, assuming that what one thinks & what really is are the same.


I stand by my words, although it seems I am not conveying my thoughts very well thus more seems to be read into what I am trying to state.

Sadly, it is a fact, that there are some people that agree to certain behavior that is detrimental to their own well-being.

In a perfect world everyone is of sound mind & makes clear, educated & informed choices & respects/abides by another's hard limits.

In the real world there are some that are not of sound mind, have poor judgment & are lacking in the common sense department. When this is the case, it is all to possible that, one willingly suffers the detrimental effects of another's actions..

It does not happen all the time to everyone... Yet it does happen. That is about as clear as I can state my opinion...[8D]












Lepidoptera -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 11:24:12 AM)

I think what comes down to abusive and what is not really can be shown by parenting styles, and what is effective and what is not.

For instance, my mother ONLY struck or punished me in ANGER. Then she would feel guilty and try to make it up to me. So I would be scared at her, but I did not respect her at all- nor did my behavior improve.

An effective parenting style is to punish a child when they do something wrong WITHOUT emotion. They are consistant with their punishment, and they NEVER apologize to the child for punishing them. The child learns that their actions have consequences, and learn to avoid them.

I think the reason that kicking or punching a sub seems like it could be abusive is because hitting seems like something you'd do in anger, whereas a caning is done carefully- it seems more calculated.

However, there is nothing intrinsically abusive about punching.



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 11:38:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: darksparkle
In the real world there are some that are not of sound mind, have poor judgment & are lacking in the common sense department. When this is the case, it is all to possible that, one willingly suffers the detrimental effects of another's actions..

True, but that's the flip side of being a good responsible adult. I'm not going to persecute a dom as "abusive" just because a sub made a bad choice.




SirKenin -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/12/2005 1:53:31 PM)

I have a sub friend who really enjoys being lifted off the ground by her hair, carried that way over to the couch, and beat with a cane until she can not sit down or she is bleeding. I have a picture or two that she sent Me of her badly bruised and bleeding ass.

Now, this is not My cup of tea, that is for sure. However, it works for her and to Me it is all about live and let live. I believe that it pushes the boundaries of SSC, but it is not My place to judge. she likes it. He likes it. Good enough for Me.



Rebelkinkykitten -> RE: Is it unreasonable to baulk at this? (5/13/2005 4:42:08 AM)

The only thing I have to say I would be concerned with is the Doms attitude
quote:

when he answered quite blatantly 'with my fist's or feet sub'! I had to ask him again to clarify what he meant just so I was sure I hadnt misunderstood him and asked did he mean to actually beat them up with his fists or feet, to which he answered 'Of Course, how else?


Of course how else??? I would be more concerned with his lack of imagination, if this is truly the only method of punishment he can think of...

quote:

I do know he is wrong but why oh why do some Doms feel/think that kind of punishment is acceptable?


As already stated, not necessarily wrong, some Dom/mes and subbies also feel this kind of punishment is acceptable, and to some it is certainly the only way they feel happy. If both adult parties are content they are not wrong (as long as they do not actually try to force others to live their way of thinking) although once more I would love to know why some Doms feel/think this kind of punishment is the only one worth using.

Reb.

((can you tell I'm new at this board thing? my appologies to SirKenin who appears to have appeared at the bottom of my note, it is a reply to the actual thread not to him specificially.. but no idea how to change that yet.))



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