Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (Full Version)

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LadyEllen -> Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 1:00:56 AM)

Prince Harry will not be going to Iraq when his regiment is deployed in the coming weeks. He recently graduated from the UK officer academy at Sandhurst.

Harry is reportedly disappointed, feeling that he is letting his troops down and wanting to go and prove himself as a soldier - apparently he's pretty good at the job.

Families of those killed in Iraq are furious, saying that it implies their sons' and daughters' lives were worthless by comparison to Harry's.

The decision though apparently, is on the grounds that his presence in Iraq would prove dangerous to his troops, because of specific threats to him as a member of the royal family and the propaganda coup his capture or death would provide to insurgents.

I feel its probably the right decision given the threat to those he would command and associate with in Iraq as a front line junior officer. I wondered what others think?

E



seeksfemslave -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 1:08:04 AM)

My 'orse my 'orse my kingdom for a 'orse.
Far be it from me to send anyone into combat but if some who are eligible should go then ALL the eligible should go.
He would probably have been kept in the background anyway.

One law for the poor and another for the rich and all that.



UtopianRanger -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 1:29:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

My 'orse my 'orse my kingdom for a 'orse.
Far be it from me to send anyone into combat but if some who are eligible should go then ALL the eligible should go.
He would probably have been kept in the background anyway.



One law for the poor and another for the rich and all that.


Yeah Seeks...... it's good bet at seventy they'd drag you off to Iraq before the boy wonder ever touched sacred ground   ; }




- R



LadyEllen -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 1:59:59 AM)

I dont see it that way.

If I were to be in the front line, with 2nd Lt (or whatever he is) Wales leading the platoon, I'd be in much more danger than if 2nd Lt Nobody were in command. Harry would be a major target, and that would drag me in too by default.

His uncle fought the Falklands War, thats true, but then that was a conventional war, with "goodies and baddies" clearly defined. In Iraq, such niceties dont apply and one never knows whether the helpful local is helpful or a suicide bomber or what. Its dangerous enough out there already - why make it more dangerous for ordinary soldiers for the sake of the glory and personal satisfaction of a royal?

E



seeksfemslave -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 2:13:40 AM)

How would the baddies know that in amongst the  goodies, both sides clearly identifiable,  our 'Arry was actually  present in any action.
Would his amoured vehicle be surrounded by secret service long black sleek automobiles on loan from the Yanks ?
Or maybe flying the Royal standard ?



UtopianRanger -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 2:45:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I dont see it that way.

If I were to be in the front line, with 2nd Lt (or whatever he is) Wales leading the platoon, I'd be in much more danger than if 2nd Lt Nobody were in command. Harry would be a major target, and that would drag me in too by default.

His uncle fought the Falklands War, thats true, but then that was a conventional war, with "goodies and baddies" clearly defined. In Iraq, such niceties dont apply and one never knows whether the helpful local is helpful or a suicide bomber or what. Its dangerous enough out there already - why make it more dangerous for ordinary soldiers for the sake of the glory and personal satisfaction of a royal?

E


That's a great case for keeping the Royals /Presidents /Politicians children from being subjected to the normal rigors of conflict{ala Iraq} that us common folk are. I don't buy it though.

In the boy wonder's case....It's clearly my feeling {having served in the US Marines} that the indigenous fighters would no more recognize him or know who he is than they would if Tom Cruise were serving in the US Marines.

Matter of fact.... I'd bet far more indigenous fighters would recognize Tom Cruise before they would the prince. Besides, all white boyz that age look the same dressed in cammo.

I definitely think the burden of military service has been spread unfairly. Pretty much every war the United States has fought in since Korea has been fought by an unjustly distributed military.





- R



DocTSH -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 2:57:09 AM)

Another fine example of the mess we have gotten into over there...seems that either lack of bravery or actual awareness have taken hand.



darkinshadows -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 3:09:57 AM)

quote:

In the boy wonder's case....It's clearly my feeling {having served in the US Marines} that the indigenous fighters would no more recognize him or know who he is than they would if Tom Cruise were serving in the US Marines.
 
I think that incredibly unfair to start name calling a person you don't know, as 'boy wonder', whether you have served or not.  That shows that you have already judged harry before looking at the situation as a whole.  It isn't as though he asked to be a royal after all.  He didn't ask for his mother to be diana either. And from reports, he wants to go.
It's not like he is next in line - and it's not as though there aren't any in line after him.  The royals aren't exactly a small family and really, the government couldn't give a damn if he was in danger or not.  He would simply, like Kings and princes before him, die a martyr.
 
It would be naive to think he wouldn't be an easy target. If we know which regiment he is in, I am sure those he would be fighting would be aware as well, which means that the whole unit will be targeted moreso than any other.  Even if he isn't easily reconisable, he will still be wearing tags and labeled - and the iraqi troops aren't some under developed army.
It may not be a great decision on the armies part, but it is hardly his fault.
 
People seem more worried that one single man should serve, than the protection of many.
 
Peace



UtopianRanger -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 3:18:38 AM)

quote:

I think that incredibly unfair to start name calling a person you don't know, as 'boy wonder', whether you have served or not.  That shows that you have already judged harry before looking at the situation as a whole.  It isn't as though he asked to be a royal after all.  He didn't ask for his mother to be diana either. And from reports, he wants to go.


No name calling by a long shot. I'm referring to him in just the same way I've heard your own BBC reporters do - I would say it's more directed at ''his younger than his actual age look'' than something derogatory

And no.... I have not judged him at all..... I'm simply saying no one should get a pass.





- R




KenDckey -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 4:04:14 AM)

As a soldier, I would not want to be anywhere near Harry.   Oh I do believe he should serve but if he served with his Regiment then he would be jepordizing unecessarly his troops.   It wouldn't take long to figure out where his regiment is, then his company, then his platoon.   And every time they moved they would become prime targets, not because they represented a threat but for political/show reasons.  In a conventional war, such as the Faulklands, service as an ordinary soldier doesn't represent as much a threat to his toops. 

I do believe that being a member of the Royal household did have much to do with the decision.  Not so much to keep him out of the fray, but purely to keep his troops better protected.   Unfortunately this is what must be done.



darkinshadows -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 4:40:47 AM)

I havent seen the BBC call him Boy wonder - Maybe they have and I am wrong, if you could point me in the direction of such a quote, I would be really interested as the BBC are usually seen and very royalist - maybe you may get one of the tabloids saying that or an independant reporter, but for the BBC to say it, would be like heresy to them! (A he is royal and b he is dianas son - the BBC find him untouchable.
 
You have judged him - at least your words do.  He isn't getting a 'pass' - he is being denied to be able to do the job he signed up for.
And in the same breath, they are also trying to assess the danger for the rest of the troops.  How would you like to be trained for a job you could never be allowed to show your potential in to your superiors?
 
Peace



UtopianRanger -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 5:08:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

As a soldier, I would not want to be anywhere near Harry.   Oh I do believe he should serve but if he served with his Regiment then he would be jepordizing unecessarly his troops.   It wouldn't take long to figure out where his regiment is, then his company, then his platoon.   And every time they moved they would become prime targets, not because they represented a threat but for political/show reasons.  In a conventional war, such as the Faulklands, service as an ordinary soldier doesn't represent as much a threat to his toops. 

I do believe that being a member of the Royal household did have much to do with the decision.  Not so much to keep him out of the fray, but purely to keep his troops better protected.   Unfortunately this is what must be done.


I disagree. The men who fought with South Carolina’s favorite son, ''Old Hickory'' never thought so. They stood in line to fight with him. And believe me no one had a target on their back like A. Jackson. I think he was thrust with saber seven times and nearly his whole family died as a result of the British Army….and still fought again again – And in what some historians would conclude as the origin of modern guerilla warfare. But hey….I’ve said time and time again; they don’t makem’ like they used to.  

So what about Pat Tillman or celebrities who fought in the Vietnam conflict? Are you trying to make the case that celebrity status whether they are the sons or daughters, of Kings, Queens, Presidents, and Politicians should not be allowed to enter the theatre because they might put the troops in harms way?  Like I said, that’s a mighty convenient excuse for the likes of a war mongers in control to never have to worry about their families placed in harms way during a conflict. They should be subject to they same exposure as any normal person. Period.

quote:

I havent seen the BBC call him Boy wonder - Maybe they have and I am wrong, if you could point me in the direction of such a quote, I would be really interested as the BBC are usually seen and very royalist - maybe you may get one of the tabloids saying that or an independant reporter, but for the BBC to say it, would be like heresy to them! (A he is royal and b he is dianas son - the BBC find him untouchable.


Heh.... I've watched a BBC reporter interviewed by Anderson Cooper from CNN refer to him as the ''boy wonder''.

quote:

And in the same breath, they are also trying to assess the danger for the rest of the troops.  How would you like to be trained for a job you could never be allowed to show your potential in to your superiors?


Refer to the top part of my post regards Andrew Jackson.



- R





darkinshadows -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 5:17:19 AM)

Well, that is simple an I said, you said with no written evidence.  And if he did say it, he wont be a BBC reporter for long...[;)]
 
But it comes down to - isn't Harrys fault - so I see no reason why anger is directed to him in the media and by anyone else.
 
Peace



UtopianRanger -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 5:26:48 AM)

quote:

But it comes down to - isn't Harrys fault - so I see no reason why anger is directed to him in the media and by anyone else.


Nah.... that's your deal - I've made similar statements regards Jenna and Barbra Bush. I'd love to see them spend some time in Iraq. Let em' breath some of that wonderful DU -- Breath-in Breath-out Breath-in Breath-out [;)]



- R



Alumbrado -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 5:29:27 AM)

Maybe they should move the entire royal family out of the country in order to spare the rest of the populace the danger, should the insurgents come looking for such high profile targets....[8|]

Amazing that people will fall for such a flimsy pretext.



darkinshadows -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 5:35:24 AM)

Oh they would Alumbrado... just like the US has airforce one.
At least certain royals have served their times in army/navy/airforce and fought - unlike certain commander in chiefs.[;)]
Peace
 
(fuck I cant spell this afternoon)



mnottertail -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 5:39:07 AM)

Were I commanding the war there, I guess I would have old Josey Wales whereabouts trumpeted at hisha from the minaret, and then set up a weir of troops to shoot the rabbits as they thump to warren.

Gen. Allenby



seeksfemslave -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 6:24:01 AM)

This raises another point about the Royal Family, we are constantly told by media sychophants that in todays world the Royals really are just like ordinary citizens and when say 'orseless 'arry joined the Harmy(sic) he wouls be treated just as any other officer cadet while at Sandhurst and during his Harmy career.

Well we knew when we heard it, and if not we know now, that that claim was untrue.



domiguy -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 7:14:20 AM)

Senator: The war's over. Our side won the war. Now we must busy ourselves winning the peace. And Fletcher, there's an old saying: To the victors belong the spoils. And never send a Prince when you can send the paupers.

Fletcher: There's another old saying, Senator: Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.



Real0ne -> RE: Prince Harry to not serve in Iraq (5/17/2007 7:23:19 AM)

One question....


i am curious, did he get huge press that he was going and literally no press that he is not?  



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