RE: Installing an ISO program. (Full Version)

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farglebargle -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/21/2007 8:13:12 AM)

That's what Macs are for.




stef -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/21/2007 8:45:20 AM)

Same problem, different zealots (usually).

~stef



Sinergy -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/21/2007 11:56:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

I wish there were, but the cold hard fact is they just don't exist, no matter how many linux zealots screech that "their" OS is better.



You do understand that Microsoft ripped off Linux and modified it to make Vista.

Even Microsoft has made the choice to come over from the Dark Side of the Force.

Sinergy

p.s.  On a related note, I wont upgrade from XP to Vista until I am certain that all the software I use has been upgraded to run under Vista and all the bugs worked out.

p.p.s.  I have 160Gb on this computer, I will probably dual boot SUSE linux when I have a spare moment.



stef -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/21/2007 12:11:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

You do understand that Microsoft ripped off Linux and modified it to make Vista.

Not that it has fuck-all to do with anything discussed so far in this thread, but by all means, do tell.

~stef



Sinergy -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/21/2007 5:29:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

You do understand that Microsoft ripped off Linux and modified it to make Vista.

Not that it has fuck-all to do with anything discussed so far in this thread, but by all means, do tell.

~stef


I was responding to your derogatory comment about linux zealots.  Apparently, Microsoft has
decided to become one as well.

I have worked extensively with 5 or more different operating systems in my computer career.

I hate all of them.  Same shit, different kernel.

Sinergy



dcnovice -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/21/2007 6:56:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: minnetar

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelOfGeorgia

well...if you all don't hear from me in a few days...ya know what happened...LOL

"michael screwed up yet another PC"

LOL



please do a complete backup before you do anything - that way you can restore any files you have

minnetar



Good idea!



stef -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/21/2007 8:58:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I was responding to your derogatory comment about linux zealots.

Which derogatory comment was that?   

quote:

Apparently, Microsoft has decided to become one as well.

How so?  And I'm still waiting to hear how Microsoft "ripped off Linux."

quote:

I have worked extensively with 5 or more different operating systems in my computer career.

I hate all of them.  Same shit, different kernel.

That's nice.

~stef



Sinergy -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/21/2007 9:04:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I was responding to your derogatory comment about linux zealots.


Which derogatory comment was that?   



"linux zealots"

Sinergy



DomKen -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/21/2007 9:18:24 PM)

I develop software for a living and am so very tired of this.

Linux in every flavor I've seen is an absolutely horrible OS for anyone but a moderately advanced computer person. It is an ok web server choice if you've got someone who cares to really learn the ins and outs of setting the thing up. The reason it is run on so many ISP's is the fallacious belief that free software equals lower TCO.

The team I'm lead developer for is pretty adept at both Linux and Windows development and it is rare that a server project intended to have versions for both computers isn't finished for Windows far sooner than the Linux project. This is due to the overall lousy state of development tools for Linux. My company has to the best of my knowledge never had anyone request a desktop application for Linux and the one law office that tried to go Linux and use StarOffice instead of MSOffice dropped that after virtually their entire adminstrative staff threatened to quit.

Ultimately it boils down to the FSF and its fellow travelers. Software developed by volunteers isn't completed in a timely fashion and tedious stuff like quality user interface work, minor features or localization/internationalization is not done or not done well. While MS, much as people hate to admit it, has produced a superb office suite and development tools by paying people to do the unpleasant work.

As to the routine claims of security of Linux fans, go find a real computer security guy and see if he thinks if the installed base numbers were reversed if Linux would be more secure.



stef -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/21/2007 9:35:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

"linux zealots"

zealot

2 a : one who is zealous : one who embraces a cause and supports it with vigor and enthusiasm b : one who is carried away by his zeal : a fanatical partisan
synonym see ENTHUSIAST

How is that derogatory?  That's exactly what they're doing.

I'm still waiting to hear how Microsoft "ripped off Linux."

And Ken, you're preaching to the choir.

~stef



Sinergy -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/21/2007 9:41:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

I'm still waiting to hear how Microsoft "ripped off Linux."



Linux is distributed under the Open Source licensing agreement.

www.opensource.org

I suspect Microsoft will not provide the source for Vista, or the source for any programs running under Vista, or...

Perhaps "ripped off" is a bit harsh.  They simply took software somebody else wrote and distributed under the open source, adapted it for their own purposes, and licensed it as a proprietary product.

I dont think anybody is silly enough to try to go after them for legally violating the open source licensing agreement.

Make of that what you will.

As I pointed out, I am not a computer zealot, I hate them all equally.

Sinergy



Termyn8or -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/21/2007 9:42:21 PM)

So how about grabbing me a copy of Win2000 Advanced Server. I got twenty bucks.

Oh, wait it is 2007, it would need like 100 updates, forget it.

T



DomKen -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/21/2007 9:50:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

I'm still waiting to hear how Microsoft "ripped off Linux."



Linux is distributed under the Open Source licensing agreement.

www.opensource.org

I suspect Microsoft will not provide the source for Vista, or the source for any programs running under Vista, or...

Perhaps "ripped off" is a bit harsh.  They simply took software somebody else wrote and distributed under the open source, adapted it for their own purposes, and licensed it as a proprietary product.

I dont think anybody is silly enough to try to go after them for legally violating the open source licensing agreement.

Make of that what you will.

As I pointed out, I am not a computer zealot, I hate them all equally.

Sinergy


I'm really having trouble with this. Are you claiming MS used Linux for the Vista kernel? No matter what it is do you have a source I could read on the matter?>



stef -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/22/2007 5:18:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

Perhaps "ripped off" is a bit harsh.  They simply took software somebody else wrote and distributed under the open source, adapted it for their own purposes, and licensed it as a proprietary product.

Which software?

~stef



farglebargle -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/22/2007 6:53:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I develop software for a living and am so very tired of this.

Linux in every flavor I've seen is an absolutely horrible OS for anyone but a moderately advanced computer person.


Explain Ubuntu. Hell, with the inclusion of the Dell/Broadcom wireless drivers into 2.6.20 it's now pretty much a no brainer.

quote:


It is an ok web server choice if you've got someone who cares to really learn the ins and outs of setting the thing up. The reason it is run on so many ISP's is the fallacious belief that free software equals lower TCO.


Yeah, putting in the installer cd is so hard. What's the hassle? Putting files in /var/www ?

quote:


The team I'm lead developer for is pretty adept at both Linux and Windows development and it is rare that a server project intended to have versions for both computers isn't finished for Windows far sooner than the Linux project.


I've never seen a server project targeting both platforms. Either you drink the MSFT Kool-Aid, or you don't.

quote:


This is due to the overall lousy state of development tools for Linux.


LOL. Dude, Eclipse.

quote:


My company has to the best of my knowledge never had anyone request a desktop application for Linux


That's because today, all real applications have moved to the internet.

quote:


and the one law office that tried to go Linux and use StarOffice instead of MSOffice dropped that after virtually their entire adminstrative staff threatened to quit.


Most law offices I see are still limping along with WordPerfect, but I suppose if you run an office, and are such a wimp you can't tell people what they're going to do, then that's an administration issue.

...

quote:


As to the routine claims of security of Linux fans, go find a real computer security guy and see if he thinks if the installed base numbers were reversed if Linux would be more secure.


25 years of IT and Financial Auditing experience qualifies me as a "real computer security guy".

BULLSHIT.

You can't "Bolt On" security. If you try, you end up with Vista.





Sinergy -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/22/2007 8:49:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm really having trouble with this. Are you claiming MS used Linux for the Vista kernel? No matter what it is do you have a source I could read on the matter?>



I will have to go back and figure out where I read this.

I thought it was interesting at the time, but the person made the point that Vista is based around a Linux derived kernel.

When I find the source for it I will post it.

Sinergy



farglebargle -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/22/2007 9:00:12 AM)

Nah, it's that Vista is following WAY BEHIND on the UI research and development going on with Linux machines.

The whole Compviz v. Beryl fork, recombination shows the benefits of having competing technologies on the market.

Vista Aero effects? Too Little, Too Late, and it's going to be a LONG SIX YEARS before it gets any better.




DomKen -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/22/2007 9:37:24 AM)

Ubuntu is a nice try but still falls short of the goal. The package structure is at best confusing at worst it encourages illegal activity.

We produce a couple of cross platform server apps every year. Plenty of vendors want software they can sell to anyone regardless of their choice of ISP's or what OS their web server runs.

Eclipse? No thanks. It's best as a Java development tool and for that I still prefer NetBeans. For C++, which is what I write most server software in, it is weak and missing needed functionality.

Actually everything isn't being done on the web. A lot of the financial stuff we do still runs on the desktop even when it gets data over the web. We just finished converting a derivatives fund's management tool from a very slow server app to a desktop app that downloaded the raw data but handled most of the number crunching locally for a rather significant performance boost.

I don't know what law office you've seen but in Chicago and New York where I've consulted on IT management for several different major partnerships as well as lots of smaller shops I haven't seen WP in at least 7 or 8 years. MS Word is all I ever see. The small office, 3 partners, 5 or so associates and 25 or 30 admin staff, that the senior partner though Linux/StarOffice would save him some money was in no position to replace 20 of its paralegals, researchers and secretaries. In Chicago at least quality paralegals and legal secretaries can change jobs easily and if the word gets around that most of your staff quit I doubt you're going to have a very easy time finding replacements at anywhere near the same pay.

I truly don't know what claims you're making in regards to security. It is a fact that security breaches are found in Linux distros with regularity. In the one area where Linux has a significant chunk of the installed base, web servers, security failures are quite common place. Is there any reason to believe that things would be better if every desktop ran Linux? No. Every hacker out there would be working on breaking the OS and they would inevitably succeed.

If you don't like Windows or Microsoft fine but don't make stuff up to support your position.



farglebargle -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/22/2007 9:50:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

Ubuntu is a nice try but still falls short of the goal. The package structure is at best confusing at worst it encourages illegal activity.


If the goal is "Insert CD, Boot into O/S installer, answer questions, walk away" I'm not sure exactly how Ubuntu is falling short.

Yeah, being able to query the package manager for the location and status of every file installed in the package REALLY adds to the confusion.

quote:



We produce a couple of cross platform server apps every year. Plenty of vendors want software they can sell to anyone regardless of their choice of ISP's or what OS their web server runs.


Perl.

quote:



Eclipse? No thanks. It's best as a Java development tool


Old News. It's got plugins for just about everything.

quote:


and for that I still prefer NetBeans. For C++, which is what I write most server software in, it is weak and missing needed functionality.


Such as?

quote:


Actually everything isn't being done on the web.


It is unless you've either been asleep the past decade OR drink the MSFT kool-aide.

But MSFT never really *did* ever "Get It", did they?

quote:


A lot of the financial stuff we do still runs on the desktop even when it gets data over the web. We just finished converting a derivatives fund's management tool from a very slow server app to a desktop app that downloaded the raw data but handled most of the number crunching locally for a rather significant performance boost.


Should have fixed the problem, rather than written a new app. But hey, whatever the salesman can drum up, eh?

quote:


I don't know what law office you've seen but in Chicago and New York where I've consulted on IT management for several different major partnerships as well as lots of smaller shops I haven't seen WP in at least 7 or 8 years. MS Word is all I ever see.


Well, then Your Mileage Varies.

quote:


I truly don't know what claims you're making in regards to security.


Microsoft Windows was DESIGNED broken, with respect to both Multiuser security and Network security.

You can NEVER bolt-on enough aftermarket code to fix those design flaws.

And I ain't making this up.

If someone has a limited skill-set, and is only comfortable with Microsoft's Training Wheels, and Microsoft's Kool-Aide, then that's their problem, not mine.

There's a reason the NSA did SELINUX extensions to Linux and not Windows.




michaelOfGeorgia -> RE: Installing an ISO program. (5/22/2007 9:57:26 AM)

problem solved...program installed...nothing more to say.

thanks for your help people. really.



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