RE: What do You want?

RE: What do You want? (Full Version)

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MrDiscipline44 -> RE: What do You want? (5/18/2007 12:07:45 PM)
She's talking about the relationship dynamic, you're talking about food preperation. Two different things. Do try and keep up, would ya.

MadRabbit -> RE: What do You want? (5/18/2007 12:16:17 PM)
I guess you didnt understand. Okay...she asked if it was wrong to ask her Dom if it was all right to take control of things. Like the food diary and her weight for instance. You said it is in fact wrong to ask to take control of things within the relationship. So under your logic, it would be wrong of her to ask to take control of a microwave to cook you food in the relationship. Just like it would be wrong for her to ask to take control of her weight.

Focus50 -> RE: What do You want? (5/19/2007 4:05:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: I don't believe in diets on their own because losing weight involves a major lifestyle choice. I think the better method is to mostly eat what you normally enjoy but in moderation, cut out or at least cut down on the sweets and "inbetweens", other than some fruit if you're really hungry, and burn off some calories with regular exercise. Now this can be hard enough on your own but I've gotta think a Dom actively taking charge of it would make it a lot easier for the sub. Plus you can actually measure the results with a regular weigh-in. The issue is whether or not a submissive should trust her dominant to make choices for them based upon their developing dynamic. Your response that a food diary is just "busy work" is not true, it is not "just busy work". It is a tool that many people employ to understand their own eating habits, and where they get into trouble with their eating habits. Even for your recommended weight loss program (which would not work for me, I had to change my lifestyle) requires that one be conscious of what they put into their pie hole, a food diary helps with that. It is also something that weight loss specialists recommend. Even without understanding how one worked, I did not suggest a food diary is unhelpful or waste of time etc in general. What I said was specifically in regards to the OP and that within the circumstances she's described in her OP, it IS busy work! I couldn't care less whether such things actually work in real life or what specialists recommend them.... quote: The issue is that her dominant may have a big picture of why he wants her to do whatever he wants her to do, you do not know that "big picture", so basically your advice is kinda undermining to that IMO. The issue is that either she trusts him to control aspects of her life, or she doesn't. And if she doesn't that is not necessarily his issue, but perhaps hers. Only they can talk it out in person and figure it out. Crikey, either you sure are reaching with some of your comments here or you have inside information the rest of us aren't privy to? How do you, yourself, know what her dom has in mind to accuse me of undermining it? quote: quote: To subsnow, bear in mind a week of even strict dieting and over-exercising may not actually measure different on a scale; you may actually gain a pound or two! Trying to lose weight can really suck like that! What you're looking for is an overall picture - that if you keep at it over many weeks, the weight will come off. (two steps forward, one back... lol) So if I were your Dom, even though I'd weigh you every week, I wouldn't necessarily expect your weight to come down each time.... But two or three consecutive weeks of no loss would get me seriously on your case...! Perhaps even an interrogation of what you may have been doing when I wasn't around would be in order.... lol Her dom has his ideas of what he thinks are useful techniques, and it seems to me he has the right idea. I have been on South Beach as a way of life for months now, and intend to keep up with it because diabetes runs in my family, perhaps he knows things about her medical condition, etc. that you do not. Again with the inside info? I only read it that his contribution was a "food diary". If that's the sum total, it's not only busy work, but that the OP clearly feels that way too! And again, what medical conditions are you referring to, I read no such thing in the OP?! quote: Nothing is a one size fits all solution when it comes to weight loss. *You're actually saying that in the very paragraph you're defending his sole* contribution of a food diary? <sheesh>** quote: If I really thought a dom was giving me busy work they would not be my dom. It may feel like that, but that does not mean it is a reality that it is. I think it is best to either trust a dominant in this, or find a new one. Not that one cannot talk to their dominant about how it feels. Hmmm, this is where I came in with my first reply.... As others have suggested, sometimes a sub is reluctant to do what's expected by her Dom but they trust him and do it anyway - fair enough! But this "food diary" is not some menial task that can be knocked over in an hour or two; like cleaning the house, for eg.... It's virtually never ending in comparison and the OP is clearly struggling with it. What's she's clearly lacking from her dom is the D/s dynamic that makes difficult tasks more readily achievable when the choice is not hers.... As always, communication is needed here. Julia, while I may have digressed a little too much with the detail of the suggested weight loss routine I would've implemented, it would still be done with me controlling it hands on - a dynamic! And that was my point - because it's duration will be weeks and months, the diary part of losing the weight is still busy work if he's not backing it up with other strategies. Anyone knows that losing weight feels good but the act of losing it is taxing physically, mentally and emotionally - a perfect scenario for the OP's dom to assume charge. Yet all he's done is saddle her with an extra and unending burden and - surprise, surprise - she's miserable with it. Focus.

earthycouple -> RE: What do You want? (5/19/2007 4:36:52 AM)
I agree with the last assessment of Focus.

Celeste43 -> RE: What do You want? (5/19/2007 6:38:29 AM)
In the specific case of the food diary, you're leaving something out. You haven't told him what you've told us, that although the food diary concept works for a lot of people it doesn't work for you. You haven't shared with him that it is making you feel worse and that by making you depressed you actually make worse food choices. Tell him what's happening here. Because he won't know if you don't give him the information. Now, if knowing that the food diary is causing you to eat more and he still demands you do it, that's the time to take back the control in this area. But first just give him the information and ask him not to get involved because it is backfiring. Many people have trouble giving over control of diet and weight loss. If you can share why it so upsets you, that would be helpful to him. Because just saying "This doesn't work" doesn't mean as much as saying "My father let my brother eat ice cream and cookies but wouldn't let me because girls have to look good or nobody will want them" means a lot more. It means that someone else controlling your diet makes you feel that you don't deserve, nor are you getting, unconditional love and that he is accidentally hitting a hot button. He needs to know what feelings he is evoking and where they come from. As far as 100% control, no intelligent person gives it first thing. Would you respond to an email demanding your passwords and your bank account info? Obviously not. Would you hand it over at the first meet for coffee? Also no. Would you hand it over the first time you play? No. Total control, like total trust must be given slowly over time when it is earned. We give a little control each time and see how the other person handles it, if they do well by whatever standards work for us, then the time after we give a little more.

Focus50 -> RE: What do You want? (5/19/2007 7:07:14 AM)
Dammit Celeste, if you'd get into these threads a lot sooner, it'd spare me a whole bunch of typing - and hassles! lol Focus.

juliaoceania -> RE: What do You want? (5/19/2007 8:00:33 AM)
I apologize for misunderstanding your post for the most part... I only have one thing I really disagree about. The term "busy work" implies to me that the dominant in question has no real interest in how the task proceeds, he is just having her do it to keep her busy and out of his hair, and has no big picture of where he wants her to go or why he wants her to do a task.. a dominant that assigns busy work just wants to keep the sub out of his hair, make her happy with a "task" that has no real purpose. I suppose that is why we misunderstood each other. To me busy work is not what I feel is busy work, it is what my dominant intended by giving me the task. In other words he defines what is busy work, not me. Just because something is ineffective does not mean it is "busy work"

Celeste43 -> RE: What do You want? (5/19/2007 10:23:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 Dammit Celeste, if you'd get into these threads a lot sooner, it'd spare me a whole bunch of typing - and hassles! lol Focus. Taking a bow! TY

slaveish -> RE: What do You want? (5/19/2007 11:40:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subsnow There really isn't any big picture. i am happy with the 40lbs lost and i'm not in a hurry to lose any more weight right now. If it happens, it happens. If not, i'm ok with that. i'm pretty sure my Dom is too because He told me that He likes me the way i am. i know that a food diary can be very helpful to some people but not me. i've lost weight before so i know how to do it. This isn't helping. It's just making it worse really. You don't seem to like the answers you're getting and feel as though you must justify your lack of desire to do a task in order to garner support for its discontinuation. What it boils down to: you don't want to do this task and want others to agree. Does he know it is causing you to eat emotionally? Does he see that it is a detriment to your success? Be sure to take a good hard look at yourself too - are you using these excuses to justify not doing something that you don't want to do? In the end, you are in control of your own self, regardless of who you call Sir. If you don't like doing it, simply stop doing it. Maybe he won't notice. This was a task given to you by the person to whom you surrender yourself. If it's not crossing hard limits then it's something you agreed to do. Picking and choosing which orders to follow isn't exactly your duty. Do it and stop telling yourself how much you hate it. Your own self-talk is making it worse.

MsOpal -> RE: What do You want? (5/19/2007 12:41:22 PM)
I am going to ignore the entire food diary debacle and reply as to my feelings in general. I (We) want a girl who has a brain, we want her to think and put her 2 cents into our family. All she has to do is realize and accept that any final decision about everything is up to Argent. Even I concede final decisions to him, but not before sometimes heated (well warmed anyway) debates. MsOpal

celticlord2112 -> RE: What do You want? (5/19/2007 12:42:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subsnow Is it wrong of me to ask Him to let me take control of things like that? What is Your opinion on this? If a sub said she didn't want to give up control of things that only effected her life directly, would You accept that? Nothing affects only one life directly. Everything that we do impacts upon other people. Everything you do impacts Him...directly.

N4SDChastity -> RE: What do You want? (5/19/2007 12:45:07 PM)
For thse of you who insist that 100% control is necessary, try this: Go and purchase one of those Robo-Sapien toys. Get it powered up and take whatever steps are needed to ensure that it is 100% occupied and doing something constructive 100% of the time that you are awake (I'll grant you it's unreasonable to expect something/someone to be active 100% of a 24 hour day.). When it begins to slow down, no matter WHERE you are, you MUST (this is, after 100% control) do whatever is necessary to replace the batteries. If it wears out you MUST immediately get it into the shop to get it repaired (this is, after all, 100% control, right?). If it stumbles, you MUST pick it up, or, I suppose you could stand there ORDERING it to upright itself until it complies. If it does someting incorrectly you MUST ensure that it's instructions are modified sufficiently that it performs the task 100% correct (this is, after all 100%, yadda-yadda-yadda). Your "robot" must eat ONLY in approved manner; "talk" only as directed/approved by you; "shit & piss" only as prescribed. Breathe, look, sleep, dress, toilet (i.e. hygene), move (or not), and hundreds of thousands of other things ONLY as YOU say, WHEN you say. Otherwise you are allowing some sort of autonomous decision-making to take place, which, in some way removes some percentage of your 100% control, doesn't it?

Focus50 -> RE: What do You want? (5/19/2007 4:05:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I apologize for misunderstanding your post for the most part... I only have one thing I really disagree about. The term "busy work" implies to me that the dominant in question has no real interest in how the task proceeds, he is just having her do it to keep her busy and out of his hair, and has no big picture of where he wants her to go or why he wants her to do a task.. a dominant that assigns busy work just wants to keep the sub out of his hair, make her happy with a "task" that has no real purpose. I suppose that is why we misunderstood each other. To me busy work is not what I feel is busy work, it is what my dominant intended by giving me the task. In other words he defines what is busy work, not me. Just because something is ineffective does not mean it is "busy work" Fair enough if this IS where we disagree because your opinion has as much chance of being accurate as mine. From the beginning (OP) I felt the food diary was "busy work" if that's the extent her dom was gonna get involved. Losing weight is not about taking a pill 3 times a day for two weeks - it's a big deal, which usually involves several related strategies and months of committment. However effective this diary may be, I still find it difficult to believe it's the main contributor for losing weight. But I do see it as the simplest strategy for her dom to assign without him having to do anything else - it felt a half-hearted response to me. And I'll bet dollars to dirt that's what was causing the negative impact on the OP, thus turning into a burden. To me, assigning any task in a half-hearted fashion (affective or not for the sub) is assigning "busy work". And weight loss is no small task.... If he thought it was worth doing, even if only for his sub's sense of wellbeing rather than his, too, he should have taken charge of it like he meant it. Or told her not to bother, period - a choice of two.... The diary on it's own does little to nothing, IMO. Focus.

Focus50 -> RE: What do You want? (5/19/2007 4:12:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Celeste43 quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 Dammit Celeste, if you'd get into these threads a lot sooner, it'd spare me a whole bunch of typing - and hassles! lol Focus. Taking a bow! TY Enjoy your moment in the spotlight; just get psychic and get into the threads that interest me sooner! You have this way of stating in two lines what takes me 2 paragraphs, dammit! lol Focus.

juliaoceania -> RE: What do You want? (5/19/2007 8:32:37 PM)
quote: To me, assigning any task in a half-hearted fashion (affective or not for the sub) is assigning "busy work". And weight loss is no small task.... If he thought it was worth doing, even if only for his sub's sense of wellbeing rather than his, too, he should have taken charge of it like he meant it. Or told her not to bother, period - a choice of two.... The diary on it's own does little to nothing, IMO. Focus. I just do not know how you can state that is his intent... I will give you another story that may sound like busy work to you, but it absolutely isn't Over a month ago my Daddy told me he wanted me to write everything I do all day long in a journal. I was to time how long I spend on the internet, at work, at the store, talking with family. It felt all wrong to me. He did not give me feedback on it, I started to resent this task, I started to invent reasons not to do it in my head. It was hard. I wondered if he was judging me. I wondered if he even read it. I wondered what the ultimate goal was other than to make me think about how I spent every minute of the day. For a couple of weeks I made the "half hearted" attempt. He did not respond. So I invented the mental reason not to do it, I was irked about something. I did not do it on purpose. I went a whole day without writing one damn word about what I had done that day... I felt smug and justified.. and then the guilt set in before I went to bed (the time I normally email my little report off to him) and I emailed him about what I had done, apologized..... So we talk about it.... And what was the entire task about? Show me how I was wasting my time, procrastinating, showing me how it would look to him if he read it. It was entirely effective, and it was all about what I needed to realize... he was just assisting me in drawing the picture.. the picture was how I live my life, and how I could be living it better. He knows I am a smart girl, talented, kind hearted, that I adore him.. but I am wasting my time in little ways... and those ways are keeping me from moving forward in a way that will allow us to be living together... He could tell me this, but would I have grown from it? Sometimes the things you hate the most have the biggest lessons. My Daddy is a Taoist.... he just points the way for me...it is his way... I am almost to the point that I will not be writing in the journal. It is no longer a half hearted try on my part. I no longer feel "judged" by it... and since he had me start keeping it I have really got my ass up and started taking care of business.... like defeating a life long phobia of driving... my journal felt like busy work, but it absolutely wasn't busy work. ..you see, what seems like busy work is not always busy work.. it really is not fair to judge her dom the way you are when you do not know what his plan is....Perhaps she should look at this diary for the big picture and the long term instead of only in the "now".. it has something to teach her if only because it is so difficult.. if it was easy she would have no lesson to learn... busy work is easy work

Focus50 -> RE: What do You want? (5/20/2007 2:27:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: To me, assigning any task in a half-hearted fashion (affective or not for the sub) is assigning "busy work". And weight loss is no small task.... If he thought it was worth doing, even if only for his sub's sense of wellbeing rather than his, too, he should have taken charge of it like he meant it. Or told her not to bother, period - a choice of two.... The diary on it's own does little to nothing, IMO. Focus. I just do not know how you can state that is his intent... I will give you another story that may sound like busy work to you, but it absolutely isn't Over a month ago my Daddy told me he wanted me to write everything I do all day long in a journal. I was to time how long I spend on the internet, at work, at the store, talking with family. It felt all wrong to me. He did not give me feedback on it, I started to resent this task, I started to invent reasons not to do it in my head. It was hard. I wondered if he was judging me. I wondered if he even read it. I wondered what the ultimate goal was other than to make me think about how I spent every minute of the day. For a couple of weeks I made the "half hearted" attempt. He did not respond. So I invented the mental reason not to do it, I was irked about something. I did not do it on purpose. I went a whole day without writing one damn word about what I had done that day... I felt smug and justified.. and then the guilt set in before I went to bed (the time I normally email my little report off to him) and I emailed him about what I had done, apologized..... So we talk about it.... And what was the entire task about? Show me how I was wasting my time, procrastinating, showing me how it would look to him if he read it. It was entirely effective, and it was all about what I needed to realize... he was just assisting me in drawing the picture.. the picture was how I live my life, and how I could be living it better. He knows I am a smart girl, talented, kind hearted, that I adore him.. but I am wasting my time in little ways... and those ways are keeping me from moving forward in a way that will allow us to be living together... He could tell me this, but would I have grown from it? Sometimes the things you hate the most have the biggest lessons. My Daddy is a Taoist.... he just points the way for me...it is his way... I am almost to the point that I will not be writing in the journal. It is no longer a half hearted try on my part. I no longer feel "judged" by it... and since he had me start keeping it I have really got my ass up and started taking care of business.... like defeating a life long phobia of driving... my journal felt like busy work, but it absolutely wasn't busy work. ..you see, what seems like busy work is not always busy work.. it really is not fair to judge her dom the way you are when you do not know what his plan is....Perhaps she should look at this diary for the big picture and the long term instead of only in the "now".. it has something to teach her if only because it is so difficult.. if it was easy she would have no lesson to learn... busy work is easy work Looks we'll just hafta agree to disagree then.... The trouble with your little story here is that it is written from your submissive's perspective. (well duhhh.... lol) IE, while YOU saw it as wasteful and maybe even a nonsense etc (read "busy work"), it would appear your Dom (or Daddy) did have a specific goal in mind from the outset; thus, definitely not busy work to him.... And there's the difference! Losing weight is something tangible enough to actually measure progressive achievement. Your journal was "stand alone", there is no real alternative strategy to work in unison with it. Losing weight is best tackled with several strategies at once - diet or at least controlled eating, regular exercise and, ok, this food diary. And the support of a loved one doesn't hurt, either. And the OP obviously knows that, too, hence she was also concerned at merely being assigned a diary as his control "effort". And I still see it that the OP's dom only went with the simplest strategy (for him), which made it feel half-hearted to me - and the OP, too! Or to phrase it a little differently, this male Dom (yours truly) saw that male Dom as assigning "busy work", and still does.... Judging him? Sure - every single time I give an opinion on a stranger's relationship and based solely on the limited and selective information only one partner offers, I'm making a judgement for which I do NOT apologise. I could argue you made quite a few judgements of me when you originally cited my earlier post - I'm ok with that, too! Is what we do on public discussion boards.... lol Focus.

RavenMuse -> RE: What do You want? (5/20/2007 8:17:23 AM)
From a personal perspective. I expect and won't accept less than full submission. However, there is nothing WRONG with what YOU want either, you simply need to find a Dominant who is looking for the same thing. Not everyone is a lifestyler.

Sinergy -> RE: What do You want? (5/20/2007 8:39:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Focus50 Looks we'll just hafta agree to disagree then.... The trouble with your little story here is that it is written from your submissive's perspective. (well duhhh.... lol) Not sure why you took the "I am going to be as condescending as I can possibly be" approach, but if you think it works for you, keep it up. *quote:* IE, while YOU saw it as wasteful and maybe even a nonsense etc (read "busy work"), it would appear your Dom (or Daddy) did have a specific goal in mind from the outset; thus, definitely not busy work to him.... And there's the difference! Losing weight is something tangible enough to actually measure progressive achievement. Your journal was "stand alone", there is no real alternative strategy to work in unison with it. Losing weight is best tackled with several strategies at once - diet or at least controlled eating, regular exercise and, ok, this food diary. And the support of a loved one doesn't hurt, either. And the OP obviously knows that, too, hence she was also concerned at merely being assigned a diary as his control "effort". And I still see it that the OP's dom only went with the simplest strategy (for him), which made it feel half-hearted to me - and the OP, too! Or to phrase it a little differently, this male Dom (yours truly) saw that male Dom as assigning "busy work", and still does.... The way I read her post was that she had a realization that what I asked her to do had a purpose, and was not just busy work I gave her to pacify her fragile, eggshell, submissive mind. I am a bit confused by your statement "we will have to agree to disagree." You think what I asked her to do was busy work? Or you disagree that she suddenly realized there was a purpose for this assignment? Or you disagree with my asking my submissive to do something? Please clarify this thought. The condescending comments about her being a submissive were a bit disrespectful of our dynamic. quote: Judging him? Sure - every single time I give an opinion on a stranger's relationship and based solely on the limited and selective information only one partner offers, I'm making a judgement for which I do NOT apologise. I could argue you made quite a few judgements of me when you originally cited my earlier post - I'm ok with that, too! Is what we do on public discussion boards.... lol Focus. Dont need to apologize to me or her. When you post here you are only giving one person's opinion, your own. Sinergy

imthatacheyouhav -> RE: What do You want? (5/20/2007 8:43:59 PM)
Master told me the good stuff is when He makes me do the things i do not want to do....i think i get that...and my heart is glad He has that control...my heart is glad that it can and has begun the process of total surrender...notice i said process.....

WhiplashSmile -> RE: What do You want? (5/20/2007 11:15:05 PM)
Anything less than 199.999999% submission simply does not cut it for me. Being the supreamist domly master of sin I am, I require my all my slaves to work twice as hard and give twice of what of they can human give. I hope nobody takes me seriously about what I just said. M/s with submission based TPE Seriously the only relationship dynamic where I expect to come close to 100% submission as possible is a M/s relationship with TPE. D/s with submission based PPE If it's D/s with PPE (partial power exchange) it all depends. The PPE levels have always been different between relationships. There have been areas of their lives I felt no desire/need/want/urge to take control of. Why try to fix something if it works just fine, runs on autopilot with no problems, and I'm indifferent about it. D/D with deferment based PPE In terms of D/D dynamics, these are really PPE based on deferment instead of submission. Basically, just sit down and work out who is better/best at what. Explore the ways we can help each other out and what brings each of us pleasure. In short any power exchanged can be taken back at any moment. Actually, this tends to make us domly types strive to do a better job at times. In a D/D relationship both have to literally prove they are responsible for the power that's been entrusted to one another. Because if we handle things poorly or mismanage deferment based power exchanged is can have bad results. Say for instance a Domme is wanting to loose weight and she wants her Dom to become her weight trainer. This is an example where deferment based PPE occurs. The Dom should do everything they can do to insure they become the best weight loss trainer they can be. Now mind you the Domme at any time has the option to fire her Dom as being her weight trainer. It's up to the Dom to push the Domme because this is what she wants for herself. I hope eveybody can wrap their mind around what I'm getting at. Both the Domme and Dom generally want to please and be pleased with one another. However, submission is never involved. The point to making this post Something to consider with Partial Power Exchange D/s relationships is to incorperate deferment based power exchange along with submission based power exchange. I have often wondered if TPE could be obtained through both submission and deferment. I have not attempted this, so I can't make any claims to it really working or not. To the OP I will say this... if your relationship is centered around TPE (Total Power Exchange) you should strive towards being 100% submissive as humanly possible. Even if it means doing something you don't like such as keeping a Food Diary/Journal, because this is for your own good and it will please your Dom/Master. Sure it seems like a bitch to do, but once you get into the habit of doing this task over and over and over again, you'll get used to it. You simply need to view this differently than what you have. The level of power exchanged has nothing to do with the fact, that you are finding this task to be a Bitch of time. Regardless if you are doing this for your Dom or yourself. The biggest battle you are facing is with yourself and not the level of power exchanged. There are other subs and even Dommes that have a bitch of a time trying to loose weight and stick to a program that includes keeping a journal. You should start forming a mental image of what you will look like with X number of pounds off, start forming a new mental vision of yourself in your head. The tasks you are doing not only effect you, they effect your Dom as well. Think about the smile on his face as you met your goals and targets. Try that for a mental image. Think about how happy and proud of you he will be of what you accomplished. Here's a tip for the OP and others in the same boat... Toss in some happy upbeat music and force yourself to smile while writting in your Daily Food Diary. Something like Mr. Brightside by the killers. The very minute you feel yourself fighting with yourself, invision your Dom/Master standing over your shoulder with a reassuring smile on his face, and imagine him placing his hand on your shoulder or back. Imagine his presence is there with you. If you can get into this mindset you'll be amazed at how far you can go...

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