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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/18/2007 4:30:48 PM

windchymes

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Go away.

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/18/2007 4:45:38 PM

curiousexplorer

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Wow, what a thoughful response. With such knowledge and insight I have no choice but to abandon all I know, all I've seen, and all the hard work others have done.
Not bloody likely.

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/18/2007 7:59:30 PM

dcnovice

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quote:

I firmly believe animals are much smarter than humans.

Take my cats, for example. I go to work; they stay home and relax all day.

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/18/2007 8:01:49 PM

HutchGarahl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I firmly believe animals are much smarter than humans.

Take my cats, for example. I go to work; they stay home and relax all day.

LOL! Good point.

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/19/2007 1:29:17 AM

Sinergy

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No cat is ever truly relaxed when you stick a few pieces of duct tape to them on your way out the door.

Sinergy

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/19/2007 7:30:42 AM

DomKen

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Last weekend I had the pleasure of introducing my new cat Abby, a 4 moth old purebred Maine Coon female, to my brothers house full o boxers, he is a breeder. She got out of her carrier and started looking around, surveying her new "realm" as it were. In come two year old boxers my brother is keeping as potential studs. There may not be anything more curious than a couple of year old dogs so they just had to know what this new thing in their house was. I was getting up and going to get Abby before trouble could start when I'm knocked flat on my face and there is snarling a pair of yips and much dog claws scrabbling on the floor. My brother is howling like a lunatic so as I roll over I'm trying to figure out what hit me and what happened. Standing over Abby is my brothers oldest female boxer Lucy, she's been fixed for years and is strictly a house pet these days, while Abby calmly washes her face. My brother informed me that Lucy had popped her head up when the two pups came charging in and that as I was getting up she decided that a baby was in trouble and she sprang to the rescue. Boxers being not terribly graceful she simply ran me over to get to the baby. Abby and Lucy quite enjoyed each other the rest of the afternoon while the two male pups spent the day outside of their own accord.

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/19/2007 9:03:42 AM

soultoshare

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Yes, but Sinergy, any cat owner will tell you that they carry grudges, and will get you for that!!!!!! When you least expect it, EXPECT IT!

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/19/2007 9:09:42 AM

pollux

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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

i have a similar story. my sister has 3 cats and a pet mouse and her mouse got out of the cage. We were sitting at the table and one of her cats came over and pawed her leg - when she looked down she noticed he had something in his mouth. she leaned down and put her hand to his mouth and he dropped her pet mouse into her hand. We were astonished! Not one little hair on his tiny body was harmed. He was returned to his cage. Unfortunately it was only a few months later and another of her newer cats, one who she rescued from a park and was more wild got the poor little fella.

Best. Post. Ever.

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/19/2007 11:23:58 AM

HutchGarahl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

No cat is ever truly relaxed when you stick a few pieces of duct tape to them on your way out the door.

Sinergy

LOL! But it's so much fun watching how they react. Of course ya know..payback is hell.

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/19/2007 12:38:32 PM

Sinergy

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Not really, I just leave duct tape with the sticky side up all over the floor.

They have nobody to blame but themself.

It is not easy, but it is possible to outthink a cat.

Sinergy

p.s. Used to have a cat that if you laughed at it, it would climb up on a shelf 3 hours later, wait for you to look at it, and knock something breakable onto the floor. I used to load up the shelf with things for her to knock off that I didnt mind being broken. Maximizing amusement potential is important.

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/19/2007 1:22:05 PM

catize

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I had a cat who was very picky about what food she would eat. She would happily consume a specific brand for awhile and then suddenly refuse to eat. There was no getting around it because she would just stop eating. I’d cave in after a day and try various other brands until she accepted one.
There was one time I put the food in her bowl, she sniffed it and walked away. Frustrated, I said to her, “I am not buying something else until your bowl is empty!” She walked back to the bowl, looked at me, took her paw and scooped the food out of the bowl and dumped it on the floor.

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/19/2007 1:48:26 PM

spankmepink11

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quote:

ORIGINAL: curiousexplorer

""I think in some ways their instincs become attuned to activity that they observe from us. The dog has watched you care for the "baby" so his instinct is operating on the maternal vibe that surrounds situation. "

Is it the maternal vibe, or the pack mentality?

Good point, both actually with Erin being the Alpha , the dog deferred to her. ( as well as the maternal/nurture influence)

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/19/2007 4:09:09 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: catize

There was one time I put the food in her bowl, she sniffed it and walked away. Frustrated, I said to her, “I am not buying something else until your bowl is empty!” She walked back to the bowl, looked at me, took her paw and scooped the food out of the bowl and dumped it on the floor.

Cats dont have owners, they have slaves.

I knew it was my job to put plenty of breakable things on the shelf so she could knock them on the floor and break them when I laughed at her. The term "preordained" springs to mind.

While I can talk endlessly about the way to get a dog in line. Cats are not a pack animal. They are descended from a largely solitary breed which hooked up with other cats to mate, then drove the one they mated with away or killed it.

We need them a lot more than they need us.

Everything you ever wanted to learn about being a Dominant can be learned from cats.

Sinergy

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"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
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"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/19/2007 5:03:22 PM

windchymes

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You got that right. Cats and Doms both make a big mess around where they go to the bathroom.

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/19/2007 5:53:30 PM

JackM1

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hah...all this reminds me of the various...hmm..creatures my family has collected over the years. my cat couldnt care less who is in the house, as long as it is not another cat; then she goes from sweet, docile kitty, to terrifying hellion in about 5 seconds flat. its like the hulk or something...also if she decides that she doesnt like the food shes been given..she pukes on it. my sisters chuawa(or how ever you spell that) Lola, is an attention whore, and very protective(note;jelouse) of her family. in other words, SHE can go up to anyone for pettin's at the dogpark, but she'll try to maul any other dog who tries to even sniff in the direction of my sister(her mother). she will also refuse to walk up or down the stairs on her own if anyone(except me) is standing in the same room, even though she is perfectly capable of doing so. i mean...why expend the energy when someone will carry you without a thought? my bird is suicidal, he will purposely fly in my cat and dog's direction when we open the cage for him to get some excersize(they sit on the couch together, watching..like its a damned movie or something) and hes been so spoiled by my mother, that he doesnt even bother "asking", he just lands on your hand when youre eating something, and goes for what ever it is that he likes on your fork. and if you refuse? not only will he poop on you, but he'll go straight for your plate and leave a surprise when hes done munching. my cousin has these two ferrits, dragon and scarface...he was young. imagine those movies, where there is this overweight king pin who has this petite assassin woman who is totaly insane. well, thats what theyre like...dragon being the assassin woman and scarface being the fat mess kingpin. they try at least 5 times a day to make their great escape from thier room(which is literally a room...yes..spoiled). these things are pretty smart..one will come at you and bite you, while the other will sneak out of the door if you havent already closed it, and while you scream the other will make its get away. this usually only works on people who are knew to their game. sometimes, they will both just...stand there..starring..waiting for you to open the door and leave, so they can dash out the door. its a wonder how they havent gotten stuck in the doorjam yet. the funniest pair has to be my other cousin's cat, and my aunts parrot. the cat is a siamese, and is very vocal, so when they bring her over to my aunts house, she will sit in front of the birds cage, conversing with him, and trying to get him to come out of the cage...the bird will screech at her, poop in her direction, and ignore her. they will do this for hours. the bird also LOVES to screech at the top of its lungs when my uncle(who wants to cook it like a chicken and always roots for the cat) is watching television in the same room. its a mutual hate. oh and then theres george, the pug, yet another cousins dog who will do amazing things for food(like somehow get his fat butt up onto those high, counter chairs when we have breakfast)...he also has this intense rivalry with my next door neighbor's miniature poodle, napolion, for my dogs attention...

ive always wondered, if i put them all in the same room..who would come out on top? it would be like the ultumate battle of ultimate destiny! somehow, it would be my bird...i just know it.

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/19/2007 6:53:39 PM

CK1

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My Brittany also a great Bird Dog is evil. She will run around the yard with my friends pug and then run full speed toward the sliding glass door and stop dead in her tracks. The pug hot on her tail, (well not that close she is a lightning bolt) the poor little guy thinks he is finally gonna beat her and WHAM head on into the door. I swear I can see her laughing...yes she does alot to the little pug. I love her!!

And Beautifull stories everyone. Animals rock even the ones on my wall..lol.

< Message edited by CK1 -- 5/19/2007 6:58:17 PM >

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/19/2007 7:11:28 PM

CK1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: curiousexplorer

"and she knew enough to not try to put this one in her mouth."

Or you could say she didn't know enough and that's why she didn't eat it? Like when one of the big cats gives it's offspring some baby herbivore to practice on and the cubs don't know what to do with it.
As you are the leader of the pack, maybe the dog grabbed you to give you first bite? Or to find out if it was something to eat?
And if the dog was really smart, it didn't eat and grabbed you so you could feed the bird up and make it worth eating. But I'm sure you aren't going to suggest your dog was smart enough to begin agriculture.

"Animals are more perceptive and intelligent that we usually give them credit for."

Actually we often give animals far more credit than we can prove. Familiarity is often the source of any animals intelligence. You find it a lot when reading long term studies of animals. A parrot person will get excited about parrots, a horse person will get excited about horses, a chimp person will get excited about chimps. And yet it is the humble crow which has surpassed them all to reach a similar stage of tool development as early people, closer than chimps or any other creature.

"I firmly believe animals are much smarter than humans."

Many people believe many things. Proving what one believes is another matter. People have spent years trying to prove their favourite animal is intelligent, but none have succeded. In fact with animals like chimps which have had enormous amounts of study, the abscence of intelligence is the big (but not surprising) find.

"I think in some ways their instincs become attuned to activity that they observe from us. The dog has watched you care for the "baby" so his instinct is operating on the maternal vibe that surrounds situation. "

Is it the maternal vibe, or the pack mentality?

"i have a similar story. my sister has 3 cats and a pet mouse and her mouse got out of the cage. We were sitting at the table and one of her cats came over and pawed her leg - when she looked down she noticed he had something in his mouth. she leaned down and put her hand to his mouth and he dropped her pet mouse into her hand. We were astonished!"

Cats will do that with wild mice. Except after they have shown you and you don't pick it up, they play around with it and eat it. Except for picking it up, I've had cats do this many times, with mice, rats, rabbits, and lizards.

"but I never imagined she would feel motherly toward an animal that she has been trained to hunt."

She is trained to hunt featherless birds her owner is raising? Interesting. I would have thought she was trained to hunt live, flying, feathered birds, and to retrieve them or "point" to where they were?

"do you know that horses learn 2 to 5 times faster them humans yes they are very smart creatures."

If horses learn 2 to 5 times faster than humans, then that just highlights their lack of intelligance. Despite the speed they can't get beyond a small childs intelligence (if that).

I bet you like to tell kids Santa Clause is dead dont you? LOL. Perception is personal. Now while I am sure you are the guy in the front row at a magick show pointing out all the mirrors, sometimes it is just better to keep your mouth shut. People will percieve things in their own way and those things are applicable to their lives and their lives alone. Did these stories of people and their lives with their pets and animals somehow offend you so greatly that you felt obligated to pull the curtain down? Sure, most things animals do can be explained away, some can't. But it is all perception isnt it? For example, and this is only based on your post and your demented need to put that here, it is my perception your an assclown.

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/19/2007 8:00:08 PM

curiousexplorer

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catize,
Try more than a day. I've always found cats will eat when they are hungry, and if there is no food around they will catch their own.

"I bet you like to tell kids Santa Clause is dead dont you?"

No, I let them dictate that fantasy, both their belief in it and how long they keep the parental gravy train going after they lose the belief.
But if you were correct in your sentiment, I would not be saying santa was dead, I would be calling santa a myth, exploring it's origins, meanings and contradictions.

"LOL. Perception is personal."

Not so much. Without injury or deformity perception is a range shared by the species. However our construction of those perceptions combined with our beliefs is very personal.

"Now while I am sure you are the guy in the front row at a magick show pointing out all the mirrors, sometimes it is just better to keep your mouth shut."

While you think you are sure, you would be wrong. I enjoy illusionists, they can be quite entertaining. As for how they do their tricks, when I bother I'm usually aiming too high, ignoring the simple tricks. Though it can be fun to discuss the possibilities with friends after the show.
However, if someone claimed they were capable of magic as in fictional/mythological magic then I might question the validity of their claims. And in cases like that keeping ones mouth shut is the last thing one would want to do.

"People will percieve things in their own way and those things are applicable to their lives and their lives alone."

Animal intelligence, it's existence and the levels it reaches seems to be a much broader topic than what individuals percieve or apply to their lives?

"But it is all perception isnt it? "

No. We can measure our perception against itself and others. If we percieve an animal as intelligent we can test it to see if the animal is actually intelligent or if our constructions have clouded our perceptions making us see something which is not there.

"For example, and this is only based on your post and your demented need to put that here, it is my perception your an assclown. "

And that says far more about yourself than me. Your interesting choice of assclown for example? I could see a donkey in a clown show, but I have no idea what it has to do with me.
Also demented need to put that here? Need is a pretty strong term for random posting on a message board. Does making it a demented need strenghten whatever your point was? Or is it just there to strengthen yourself? Does boredom count as demented?

Thanks for the feedback CK1, I'll file it appropriately and give it the full consideration it deserves.

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/19/2007 8:16:57 PM

mistoferin

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Wow, are you always this much fun?

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RE: And they call them DUMB animals... - 5/19/2007 8:28:13 PM

curiousexplorer

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mistoferin,
There are no victims here. Make your own fun.
Or just think of me as a random train on the internet tracks.
And in all likelyhood I will also do it again.

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