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RE: submission without surrender? - 5/19/2007 1:13:12 PM   
NakedGirlScout


Posts: 370
Joined: 1/10/2006
From: Toronto
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Hi kyraofMists, I am comparing to slaves or subs who talk to me (or whom I just happen to see talking) about a feeling of not being "able" to disobey, not being "able" to disagree with and defy their owners/doms. They speak of a surrendering of their will to the point that they literally lose their abilities to do anything other than what is expected of them. Now I'm not sure if this kind of stuff is real or if they're just typing up fantasies, but I've never felt that way. This is what I was exploring.

(in reply to kyraofMists)
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RE: submission without surrender? - 5/19/2007 1:15:52 PM   
welshwmn3


Posts: 126
Joined: 3/14/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NakedGirlScout



I love being told what to do, to serve, even to the point of being micromanaged. I find I am much more relaxed than when I need to tell myself what to do, and I hate having responsibility. But I have never felt or wanted to feel as if I had no control. I obey because it feels good to obey and because it makes the other person happy. But there is no sense whatsoever of any kind of surrender inside of me. I could just as easily decide I didn't feel like obeying anymore, and it wouldn't bother me. Not that I would break my word if I had agreed to obey someone, but that's what it is, a kind of verbal contract that I honor. I am not devastated or even too upset if I disappoint my dom, although I genuinely want to make my partner happy and would work hard to do that. Other submissives I speak to talk to me of being totally devastated with so much as a frown from their dom.

Anyone else feel they are submissive because it feels good and not because they have somehow lost any control to their dominant? Is there a label for this kind of submission? Just curious because I'd like to connect with like-minded people so I don't feel so totally alien.


For me, if I disappoint my Sirs, I'm very upset.  Either of them telling me that they are disappointed in me is worse than a punishment.  However...

I don't 'lose control' to either of my Sirs in my submission to them.  I chose to submit.  I chose to be collared by them both (because, even if the power exchange in the relationship afterwards is that we have no choice in anything again, we still have the choice to say "yes, I will accept your collar" in the beginning, and as we usually engage in consensual slavery, we still have the choice to say, "things aren't working for me/us like this, I'm giving the collar back"). 

I submit to both my Sirs to the best of my ability, and hope that I'm good enough for them.  In one relationship, I handle all the finances, making sure all the bills are paid, deciding how and where the money's going, and even how much money to put in the savings account.  Sir has 100% veto, but trusts my judgement in all this.  Why do I have so much responsibility?  Because he hates it.  He'd rather not have to think about the day to day issues of our finances.  Once a week I tell him which bills have been paid, what is still outstanding, where our savings stand, and how much money we can spend for 'wants'.  Sometimes, due to whatever reason, I even have to tell him to control his spending so we don't have to dip into the savings account. 

Many people would see this as not being submissive to my Sir.  However, since it's what he wants, I am submitting to the best of my ability.

In my opinion, submission and surrender don't mean you have no choice and no responsibility.  It means what works for you in your relationship.

I hope that makes sense.  I'm talking from my viewpoint only, and I realize that I don't usually have the same veiws on submission and surrender as other people do.  :)


(in reply to NakedGirlScout)
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RE: submission without surrender? - 5/19/2007 1:20:22 PM   
spankmepink11


Posts: 1310
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mstrjx


I interpret your 'ability' to be able to withdraw your obedience at any time as being 'self-preservation'.  If anything goes wrong in the relationship, you know how to take care of yourself.  You might not see it in just those terms, but what you are saying is that you do have the ability to distance yourself if you have to.  To ignore self-preservation is rather vapid.

You say you dislike having responsibility.  In the sense of being a slave rather than being a submissive, this would still fall in line.  The more you submit, the more the 'owner' takes on as responsibility.  At that point, without having to concern them self with 'self', all that is left to 'do' is to serve and obey.  Simplistic?  Perhaps, but I don't see the difference between the two as being much more complicated than that.  A submissive (one that has one or more areas in their life in which they 'can't' or 'won't' submit) has to be protective of their 'areas' and be responsible for themselves in that way.  A slave is freed from that.

You imply that you are in a position to be compared to other sub/slaves.  One of the earliest truths I have found in the Lifestyle is that, given the opportunity, subs and slaves are a competitive lot (just as d-types are, given the same opportunity).  Any chance to show that they are 'more' or 'better' is a way to glorify their Dom or Owner, and themselves in so doing.  Whether this is valid or not, or despite there being some measuring stick for submission, this fact remains.

We all need to find our 'place' and be comfortable with that.  Whatever you are, whoever you believe yourself to be, and 'where' on the sub/slave scale you think you are, is ultimately a matter of yours and your partner, and nobody else.  It needn't be any more complicated than that.  If your presence in the public arena is getting uncomfortable, then withdraw from that for a while.  Your relationship is still yours to 'grow' and to enjoy.

Hope this helps.

Jeff



Jeff,
That has to be one the  most spot on, sensible replies I've ever read....go you!!!

(in reply to mstrjx)
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RE: submission without surrender? - 5/19/2007 2:39:44 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

I am comparing to slaves or subs who talk to me (or whom I just happen to see talking) about a feeling of not being "able" to disobey, not being "able" to disagree with and defy their owners/doms.


I have a really hard time disobeying.  (I also have a really hard time lying which is similar)  I don't really think it has much to do with my 'submitting' or the me having given up control.  Its a means of giving up control, for sure, but that's not the motive.  Its just really really difficult for me to be something besides what someone else wants me to be.  I instinctively follow orders and am always wanting to figure out what someone wants so I can conform.  In day to day life, I manage those impulses because its a  really goofy way to be and a rather dangerous.   It takes a lot of energy, though.

Sometimes, I find myself in situations where I can just be my compliant little self and obey.  Thus far, they've been temporary and not always bdsm related but when ever it happens, its such a relief not to have to force myself to question, second guess, and otherwise differentiate myself from the other.  I can just 'be good.'   Its like catching a glimmer of what it might be like to be myself.



< Message edited by gypsygrl -- 5/19/2007 2:40:56 PM >


_____________________________

“To be happy is to be able to become aware of oneself without fright.” ~Walter Benjamin


(in reply to NakedGirlScout)
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RE: submission without surrender? - 5/20/2007 12:26:08 PM   
Celeste43


Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
Status: offline
The kind of total surrender you mention isn't something that happens immediately and nor should it. We've been together four years and I still haven't surrendered totally but it's a lot deeper than it was in the beginning. Total surrender requires total trust and then a fair bit of time to learn. None of this happens overnight.

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RE: submission without surrender? - 5/20/2007 3:01:03 PM   
naivetee


Posts: 9
Joined: 4/18/2007
Status: offline
I feel the exact same way.  *sigh*

_____________________________

"There came a time when the risk to remain tight in the bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom."
Anais Nin

(in reply to NakedGirlScout)
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