RE: Neck Vein Play (Full Version)

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chiaThePet -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/18/2007 11:04:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lewdy

Why be so catty about the discussion Chia, you asked for that response from Noah given your previous put downs of me. If you dont like the topic choose to move on.

And Chia there's no love or respect coming from you


If trying to keep someone from doing damage to themselves is catty, GUILTY!
i asked nothing of Noah, and his reply was addressed to you.
If trying to keep someone from doing damage to themselves is a putdown, GUILTY!

i believe trying to keep someone from doing damage to themselves is a big
sign of Love and Respect (For Life) Good Luck with this lewdy.

chia* (the pet)



DommeChains -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/18/2007 11:15:14 PM)

OK, I will wade into this one and hope not too much fecal matter sticks to me lol.  Yes, vein and/or artery compression anywhere on your body is risky...period.  Which is why when one is learning bondage one is taught to look for signs of compromised circulation.  Tissue without a proper blood flow is tissue that is dying.

OP you state you have done this blood vessel compression and liked it and want to find a safe(r) way to do it.  There really is not a "safe" way to do it any more than there really is a "safe" way to do breath play.  The margin for error when regarding blood flow to the brain is pretty narrow.....seconds, no more than minutes and the negative consquences can be severe including inducing a stroke, a seizure from an infarcted area in the brain (damaged tissue which can trigger a seizure) or death.  Also the more often you do this type of activity the more likely you are to knock loose a plaque inside one of the arteries which travels to the brain and usually causes a stroke or the lack of oxygen can also trigger an irregular heart beat.  This is frequently fatal too. 

If you use something of greater width than your finger to put pressure on these areas you reduce the chance of completely compressing the blood vessels.  That does not mean that the risk of serious injury is gone.....just somewhat reduced.  The wider the area the smaller the amount of pressure per square inch and, hopefully, the less depth of inward compression on the vessels.  The person applying the pressure needs to be in front of the bottom so they can see if the bottom stops breathing.

None of this information means I endorse this particular type of play.  Just giving the input of someone with a decent knowledge of anatomy and how the body reacts to physical stressors.  Personally I think there are other ways to give a bottom/sub tingling, lights flashing floating sensations that are much less risky or to result in serious harm.



rainah -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/18/2007 11:56:12 PM)

OP:
http://members.aol.com/OldRope/breamain.htm

This is a link to Jay Wiseman's essays on breath play. I realize that it's not precisely what you're after, however, in several of these essays (all of which I've read more than once), he mentions the lack of blood flow to the brain in specific, and so perhaps there will be some information here which will benefit you.

To the ones who replied to this in a judgmental fashion, I have this to say: It is admirable to have compassion and to desire to save someone from harm. However, it is entirely possible to do this without rancor or condemnation of the choices of others. The simple fact is this ... everyone will not always agree with you, and the choices that are right for you will not be right for everyone. Allow others the freedom to make informed choices without passing judgment upon them ... I am pro-choice, even though abortion isn't something I feel that I could do personally, because I believe in the right to choose (just an example). Disagree if you will (the world would be boring if no one ever did, after all), but do not imply that anyone differing in choice or opinion is inherently wrong. I chose to drive every day, knowing that each time I do, I risk an accident.  Nothing is risk-free, and so the choice remaining is to weigh the risks and evaluate -- each person within him/herself -- if the risk is worth taking. And that is a very personal choice -- and personal choice, IMO, is a sacred thing which should be revered.

Ahem ... stepping off the soapbox now. Sorry about that, this just kinda hit a nerve in me.

Rainah



chiaThePet -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/19/2007 1:04:29 AM)

Dear rainah,

i get your point, though "judgement" is a little overboard i think.

For myself, lewdy seemed to be rather oblivious to the previous
warnings about this play, including one which shared of a death
due to such. Frankly, some good advice which included both
experience and medical association was offered to him, but he
still sought validation. What more than death does one need?
Yes, i tend to go into sarcastic mode rather quickly if someone is
just ignoring the obvious, and i do apologize to lewdy for being
absolutely myself here, but i wanted to get his attention and
impress upon him the dangers of this practice, not because i
didn't care about him, but quite the opposite. And yes, i could
get hit by a bus tommorrow, but i'm not going to jump in front
of one to test the theory. And yes, personal choice is sacred,
but if i see someone i care about making a choice which just
might cause them great harm, i will become catty, obnoxious,
maybe even judgemental, whatever it takes to keep them from
perhaps doing something which they may forever regret. Sorry
lewdy for my approach, but my stance remains unmoved.

With Love and Respect, chia* (the pet)




lewdy -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/19/2007 4:13:38 AM)

Pragmatic Lewdy is a very sane 45 year old woman.



MamaDomme -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/19/2007 4:21:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah


quote:

ORIGINAL: MamaDomme

I have a very good friend whose husband died by doing this type of play.  She was 6 months pregnant and had a 2 year old son too.  Bad way to go.


... plus that awful thing that happened to her poodle in the microwave.



I know nothing of a poodle in a microwave, Dearie--- however, after reading your profile I do understand why you state what you do.

Have a truly Blessed day~~~



givemyall -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/19/2007 4:24:07 AM)

I agree with Chia on this one - the advice that is being offered is excellent, breath play/choke play can be dangerous even when performed by medically trained people.

Its up to the reader what they do with that advice, if they are happy to continue with the play when they are aware of the dangers and also happy to serve the time if someone ends up dead, then that is their perogative...... personally I would prefer to play in front of a bus, at least you get some warning as to when it's going to hit.

Each to their own though, so have fun!



justheather -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/19/2007 5:24:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kitte9

1. The aorta supplies the brain with blood/oxygen.


If you are capable of compressing your aorta by pressing on the side of your neck, you need to be sure to donate your body to scientific research.

The external and internal carotid arteries would be more like it.

This is just one example of why second-and-third-hand medical advice based on anecdotes is not what you want to rely upon when making choices about all things edge.



ThinkingKitten -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/19/2007 5:31:12 AM)

Beyond the physical risks previously described (to yourself, I assume), perhaps you need to also consider the collateral damage that may result from something not going quite as planned for you and the person performing the "semi-strangulation" on you. Is this person prepared to accept the consequences of facing a possible manslaughter charge? Or maybe even a murder charge? Do you have excellent healthcare coverage (to pay for the paramedics, the hospital stay, the rehabilition - for days, weeks, months, or even years)? If you end up brain damaged, is this person committed to being there for you, to change your diaper, spoon feed you, rub the pressure points on your body and so on? Do you have long term disability coverage? What about your loved ones? Do you have dependents? What will happen to them if you become unable to care for them? And the list goes on.
 
Do as you please, its your right, just don't hurt anyone else in the process.



chiaThePet -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/19/2007 6:09:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lewdy

Pragmatic Lewdy is a very sane 45 year old woman.



OH PERFECT! Now i have to apologize for assumptions!

Hmmmmm, interesting, now why did i just suppose that you were a boy?

i guess my love for Women predisposed me into believing that a Woman

would not take the risks involved here after the knowledge which was shared.

OH PERFECT! Now i have to apologize to all those penis puppets out there

for assuming only they would ignore good sound advice!

Well Miss lewdy, no matter what your decision here, play or pass, i hope are

as pragmatic as you offer yourself. Be well, be safe, and remember to breathe.

With Love and Respect, chia* (the pet) 



BossyShoeBitch -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/19/2007 6:25:57 AM)

Oh Michael, where are you?

::patiently sits, waiting for SimplyMichael to chime in on this one...::



Copulo -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/19/2007 8:20:26 AM)

I have to go along with Noah on this one. If someone asks a specific safety question about a certain type of play then what they need to know is some clear cut answers about doing it ‘safely’.
Every day I smoke cigarettes and at least once a month I am told about how bad, dangerous and life threatening it is for me but Im still doing it.
I know little about this kind of play and so I am sorry I can not offer any advice except to say that if it is highly dangerous keep it to occasional play rather than wanting to do it at every session. It’s a bit like us running over a busy road. We may get over the first time, the second and even the third but the more we try to dodge the traffic, the more likely we are to get hit in the end.



MiladyElaine -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/19/2007 8:43:36 AM)

you can always ask Xena how She does it.



Noah -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/19/2007 11:32:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Copulo

... the more likely we are to get hit in the end.



Finally a subject on which I can claim some expertise.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/19/2007 11:41:41 AM)

All I have to say is it is a REALLY good idea to understand the risks and underlying physiology of this sort of play otherwise one might risk the most valuable thing they own.



EvilKitty -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/19/2007 12:30:06 PM)

(Noah, you're a hoot!) Hello lewdy, welcome to the club! I have recently asked a Dom friend to do the asphyxiation play with me. I'd seen it done, but had never tried it, nor had it done to me. I tend not to wanna do things to subs I haven't had done to myself.
I sat on a bench, we had another friend with EMT training sitting next to me. The Dom stood behind me & put my neck in the crook of his elbow & gently squeezed. It's difficult to relax at first. Shortly, there was a buzzing feeling & a sense of euphoria. I was "back" within seconds. It was fun. My decision was to not learn to do it to others. I love fire & knives, but the asphyxiation did not entice me to want to do it to others. Scare me? Yep. Afraid of what I could screw up? Yep, bigtime yep. Would I play it again with this particular Dom? Probably. His formal training has my respect and my trust.
I love mummification & breath play, but asphyxiation is not something I feel comfortable doing to others.
Evil Kitty
       Play nice, now, ya hear?



GoddessAndGuys -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/19/2007 12:53:12 PM)

Just providing info...

http://www.fortunecity.com/westwood/carving/417/breathplay.html
I've seen this person's writing on another site too, it talked about other kinky stuff + safety.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choking_game



Kitte9 -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/19/2007 1:41:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kitte9

I am sorry to hear that, MamaDomme. I used to play as a child. That's when my siezures (grand mal) began.


And now Epilepsy is caused by momentary vascular restriction.

Please.






Actually I was born with the epilepsy. It was not until I had played the choking game that the grand mal type siezures started. Until that point I suffered petit mal and absent mal siezures. Also, my childhood friend did not release his grip until almost 2 minutes after I passed out.
Of course, if Noah had bothered to ask instead of behaving badly, he would have recieved this answer before making himself look arrogant.



Kitte9 -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/19/2007 1:46:31 PM)

Not to say this will happen to anyone who tries it. Just be careful. Hope it works out for you. 



angelynne -> RE: Neck Vein Play (5/19/2007 2:03:49 PM)

i have to reply to this one...
my former Master did this type of "breath play" on me every session for approximately 4 months.  He would hold my neck until i passed out and then let go.  i knew the risks going into it and was still willing to do it.  if i found another Master who had the proper physiological knowledge and practical experience i would certainly do it again, as it was by far my favorite type of play.
yes it can be dangerous, that's why it's considered edge play... my personal advice would be as long as you have someone who lets go immediately after you pass out you should be ok, barring the fact that you could knock off some deposits somewhere and end up suffering a stroke.  for me the pleasure outweighed the very unlikely negative effects.  go forth and enjoy yourself, as long as you are with someone who knows what they're doing.

angela






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