quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Please don't lecture me about reading for comprehension. The Brady Laws ARE gun laws. The only person who didn't comprehend is you.

quote:

Ranger,

I still don't see how this is a violation of one's civil rights. Does a state issued driver's licence keep you limited to that state? Aren't you still free to move about the country?

quote:

I think a standardized system is a good idea in that security measures could be taken to make counterfeit IDs more difficult to make. As it is now, people have little to know idea how another state's ID is supposed to look. In Arizona, if your are under 21, the license in printed vertically. If you are older than 21, it is printed horizontally. Does a bartender, security screener, customs agent, police officer, etc in Virginia know what an Arizona License is supposed to look like? My best guess...is no.

quote:

But when it is not hearsay I can proove it as fact.
And yes,asking to proove is lazy.You don't have to look for any info. yourself because someone did it for you.That is why our country is in a mess.People have become lazy and greedy.

quote:

Besides if I did work for you that you want me to do that would make me submissive to you.
I am not even submissive to my employer.I do what, when ,and how I want.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sfgrrl

You're either being purposely disingenuous or you're simply dim.

You know full well that ShiftedJewel's comparison was between the GUN LAWS being passed today and the GUN LAWS in pre WWII Germany, not ALL laws. It has nothing to do with being gassed, redistribution of wealth, yellow stars or window signs. Only a complete and utter simpleton would make such comparisons.

quote:

When people are disarmed thay can't defend themselves.
As you said the Nazis banned guns and knifes from Jews.
If Jews had guns and knives their would be more Jews alive today.
That was the purpose of not allowing them to own them.

Your logic is totally spurious. It does not follow at all that if the Jews of Germany and the other occupied territories had been better armed they would have completely thwarted the intent of the Nazis. The most that can be implied from it is that some of the arrest and seizure situations would have been more confrontational and perhaps somewhat bloodier. What would have been much more likely is that after a few incidents of armed Jewish resistance to arrest had occurred, there would have been even more and harsher Draconian laws enacted against them, and increased retribution instigated against family, friends and neighbors of those Jews that did resist arrest and seizure with any kind of force. The only likely difference in outcome is that more Jews would have been shot or killed in their homes resisting arrest, or as a result of direct retribution, rather than dying later of starvation, overwork and abuse in a death camp. That's hardly an improved outcome ... just a different but equally despicable one.

In actuality, there were indeed a number of cases of armed Jewish resistance to the Nazi onslaught. As Lordandmaster points out in another post here, the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto staged an armed uprising (the German gun control laws did not apply in Poland) against their new rulers and they were ultimately crushed because they were a targeted minority and they could not sustain their resistance by themselves. In our own country, the Branch Davidians in Waco were armed to the teeth but the ATF and FBI branches of the U.S. government ultimately prevailed against them because the majority of the U.S. citizenry did not support their cause and left them to their fate (even if we ultimately disapproved of some of the methods employed by the ATF and FBI in effecting that outcome).

As Lordandmaster also points out, the Holocaust and other Nazi pogroms only occurred because they were allowed to occur by the moral cowardice of the other non-Jewish, non-Gypsy, non-homosexual, non-Catholic, non-handicapped, etc. citizenry who stood by and allowed each of these minorities to be targeted because they were themselves safe as part of the non-targeted majority. If the response to Kristallnacht had been that the whole of Germany (Jews and non-Jews) had risen up together in united rebellion and complained over the targeting of German citizens in this manner it would have stopped the Nazis in their tracks. The fact that the majority of non-Jewish German citizenry also feared for their own safety and instead opted not to get involved lest they be targeted next, thereby tacitly approving and condoning the Nazi marginalization of the Jews, and specifically their victimizations of Kristallnacht, is what in the end permitted the Nazis to take matters to the next level. Remember that the Nazis did NOT invent ant-Semitism (nor homophobia, nor any of the other bigotry towards minority groups), they merely exploited this pre-existing hatred to their own ends in a "divide and conquer" strategy for gaining ultimate power.

sissy maid lola




< Message edited by sissymaidlola -- 5/15/2005 2:25:18 PM >

_____________________________

If i don't seem submissive to You, it may be because i'm NOT submissive to You.

(in reply to Youtalkingtome)

quote:

MrThorns,
I will give you two answers.
The military asks this when you sign up.I have been told this by many people in the military including a reserve MP.Now he works for the D.E.A..

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Are you serious? In Nazi Germany, cars drove on the right. Does that mean our traffic laws are modeled after Nazi traffic laws? The fact that the Nazis instituted gun control doesn't mean that advocates of gun control are Nazis. That's embarrassing logic.

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At any rate, it is nauseating for a powerful lobby to pretend that it is a persecuted minority. For handgun-owners to compare themselves to Jews in Nazi Germany is just shameless.

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While I'm at it, let me refute the other bit of nonsense I saw on here, namely that if Jews had been allowed to keep their handguns, the Holocaust wouldn't have happened.

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The Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising armed themselves, and they were still crushed.

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The Jews were too tiny a minority to take on the entire Nazi machine by themselves. To suggest that they could have defended themselves with handguns is either disingenuous or dim (to use your terminology).

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One thing could have saved the Jews, though (as well as homosexuals, gypsies, and anyone else the Nazis didn't want around). IF THE REST OF THE GERMAN POPULATION HAD DECIDED IT WAS IMPORTANT ENOUGH TO PREVENT IT, the Holocaust wouldn't have happened.

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P.S. Stop calling me names. It's childish.

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I said more Jews not all Jews.More could be anywhere from 1 on up.

sissy Is fully aware of what you said and he addressed your contention that more Jews would be alive today (rather than ALL Jews!) if they had been better armed in his prior response. For there to be more Jews alive today the implication is that less Jews would have died in the Nazi anti-Semite pogroms of 1933-1945 if they had used arms to resist Nazi persecution. You were presented with the real example of the armed insurrection of the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto which ultimately failed. Instead of all these Jews simply being carted off to concentration camps and subsequently dying there, they either died in the streets fighting, or they were ultimately arrested once the insurrection failed and still carted off to a concentration camp (where they were presumably treated even worse than if they hadn't been part of an armed insurrection). The armed community resistance in Warsaw probably roped more Jews into the struggle and exposed them to persecution and death (either fighting in the streets or later in the death camps) than otherwise ... under different circumstances some of them might have been able to bluff or bribe their way to freedom, an option they forewent once they took up arms against the Nazis.

So either more Jews died, or at least the same number died but under different circumstances, in a well documented real life situation where they were armed and they chose to put these arms to effective use in order to resist immediate arrest and deportation. This totally disproves your original contention that more Jews would be alive today if they had been better armed due to the lack of German gun control laws aimed at preventing them from bearing arms. The Waco disaster also demonstrates that being armed to the teeth does you no good if you are a targeted minority in a community where the majority does not empathize with your political and/or religious viewpoint. If the Branch Davidians had not been successfully represented by the government and mass media as being religious fanatics up to no particular good, but rather as hard working, tax paying, family raising Americans who were being victimized by the ATF and FBI agencies, all hell would have broken loose over the Waco massacre at the time that it occurred.

sissy maid lola




_____________________________

If i don't seem submissive to You, it may be because i'm NOT submissive to You.

(in reply to Youtalkingtome)

quote:

It's all the Illuminati's fault!! <snickerz>

Oh, really? sissy Had always thought that Rasputin was to blame! <giggles>

Tell you what, why don't we start a rumor that the Knights Templar were the real instigators ?

sissy maid lola




_____________________________

If i don't seem submissive to You, it may be because i'm NOT submissive to You.

(in reply to smilezz)

quote:

I had a friend that worked as an independent political analyst, she did tons of research and a little known fact (I saw the newspaper article myself) is that most of the gun laws that Brady is/was trying to pass are verbatim of the Nazi laws against Jews, only the gun owners are now the Jews.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sfgrrl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Are you serious? In Nazi Germany, cars drove on the right. Does that mean our traffic laws are modeled after Nazi traffic laws? The fact that the Nazis instituted gun control doesn't mean that advocates of gun control are Nazis. That's embarrassing logic.

Of course it is. Strangely enough, the only one here that seems to be making that gargantuan jump in logic is you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

The original claim I objected to is this:

quote:

I had a friend that worked as an independent political analyst, she did tons of research and a little known fact (I saw the newspaper article myself) is that most of the gun laws that Brady is/was trying to pass are verbatim of the Nazi laws against Jews, only the gun owners are now the Jews.

Now you keep insisting that the author meant "Nazi gun-control laws," not simply "Nazi laws." I'm not convinced that that's really what the author meant, but even if that's how she meant it, it's nonsense.

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Your claim has been that gun-control laws in America are modeled after Nazi gun-control laws because Nazis instituted gun-control.

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That is as good as saying that traffic laws in America are modeled after Nazi traffic laws because Nazis drove on the right side of the road. I'm sorry if it sounds absurd, but that's how absurd your reasoning is.