RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (Full Version)

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Aswad -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/7/2007 5:07:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

My Japanese language / Japanese history professor made an interesting point.  From a linguistic point of view, if Japanese has any linguistic relative on the planet (and the comparison is tenuous) it would be Finnish.  I pointed out that we really do not have any clear idea how far the Vikings sailed.


I'd assert that such a comparison is indeed very tenuous. It appears, to me, a lot more likely that it is a language isolate proper. Well, not entirely, as I seem to recall the ryukyuan languages are Japonic, but the idea being that I don't think Japonic is derived from any other family, though it may have been influenced at some point.

As for how far the Vikings sailed, that is an interesting question, and they may well have sailed that far, but an open question is whether the Japanese people were any more welcoming of them than they initially were of other outsiders.

quote:

Japanese is actually a perfect language for BDSM.  The verb tenses and sentence structures are extremely rigid in terms of usage based on one's social status.  The example I frequently use are the various verbs "To Give"


I am aware of that, and have indeed forwarded the idea several times. It does not seem to me that very many people would be likely to adopt a different language, but for me, I intend to do so in my relationship with nephandi, provided she grasps it without too much difficulty.

As the two of us both study the same martial art, whose higher teachings will require a modicum of proficiency in Japanese, we will both probably learn the language anyway; for me, I also have an independent interest in the language for various reasons, but we both appear to like the idea of using different sociolects of the language in the context of our D/s practices. To what extent we adopt it, though, will of course remain to be seen.

Of course, for BDSM purposes, the roles of woman and man would then have to be swapped for submissive and Dominant. It might also make some sense to structure the sociolect to represent different "degrees", but that's bound to be controversial. The vowel bits could be left as a matter of gender, though, as that's more aesthetics than anything else.

quote:

Additionally, it has a built in vagueness about speaking to/about people.


Yes, I have posited that those who favour third person speech could, if they adopted such a variation over the theme of Japanese, go for the option of eliminating the subject from the submissive's speech patterns instead.

Thus, rather than "Should I get you some tea?" becoming "Should this one get you some tea?", it becomes "Do you want tea?", to illustrate with what can be done in English. For Japanese, of course, one can take some of it even further, of course.



Sinergy -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/7/2007 6:22:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

As for how far the Vikings sailed, that is an interesting question, and they may well have sailed that far, but an open question is whether the Japanese people were any more welcoming of them than they initially were of other outsiders.



What is curious about Japanese history is that for an island culture, they only discovered how to use boats about 1000 years ago.  They have no ancient legends which include horses, and their Xenophobia only started coming about in the 13th century when the warrior culture started to ascend to primacy.

As to the comments about changing man and women to Dominant and submissive, this would only really be relevant to Domme/male sub/slave dynamics.  The woman is always considered the submissive one in a male / female relationship.

Sinergy



thompsonx -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/7/2007 6:52:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: CuriousLord

Actually, this instance of "dunce" comment was specifically referring to you.


Pretty-please-with-sugar-on-top, to both of you, CL and TX, pay close attention, pleeease?

"Don't feed the trolls" can be generalized into "Don't take the bait".

I've no gripe with either of you, so let's look at it this way:

* CL, you haven't called me an idiot yet, despite the apparent 1.6σ difference, so for the moment, I'm allowing myself to assume you don't consider me one. Please, then, consider that reading an infinite regression series of bait,response,... is hurting my brain as much as the frictions you describe in dealing with society in general.

* TX, you haven't baited me yet, and don't seem to care more for ratings than I do, so for the moment, I'm allowing myself to assume you don't have a gripe with me either. Please, then, consider that this baiting/response shtick isn't doing it for me, and that I'm pretty sure it's ruining things for others as well.

So, in short, could both of you please either agree to keep it down, or keep it on the other side of the board (PMs), or simply stick to baiting me instead? The latter will not end up with more bait, and will be equally respectful to me as a participant in this thread.

Thanks.

That concludes this selfish service announcement for the day, and fills my maturity quota this week. [:D]



Aswad:
Since you come with a flag of truce here are my terms.
My name is thompson please do me the courtesy of using it, we do not know each other well enough for you to assume familiarities.
Tell Mr. Bergen to put a muzzle on mortimer mc snerd or I will break him up for kindling to light the fire that consumes Mr. Bergen.
thompson



seeksfemslave -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/7/2007 7:55:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
Thompson said of me...
quote:

Now I will agree that you have not made claims of high intelligence preferring instead to allow it to fall upon us like a gentle summer rain that refreshes us all,and allowing those who choose to drink from its pools freely and deeply.

I think you are taking the piss MrT lol...see... no fool me he he he he he
Re the scrubber remark I have forgotton the context, I am glad it is "worrying" you tho' lol 

Seeks:
Golden showers are not my venue.
Gawd it has me in such a state I loose sleep(but only when I am awake).[;)]
thompson

MrT Aswad's posts are so esoteric and obscure, I have yet to understand one, I reckon a Golden Shower might do me some good.Stimulate my little grey cells.
Either that or spend the next 50 years trying to learn Japanese or heaven forbid Norwegian.



peepeegirl5 -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/7/2007 11:34:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

What is curious about Japanese history is that for an island culture, they only discovered how to use boats about 1000 years ago.  They have no ancient legends which include horses, and their Xenophobia only started coming about in the 13th century when the warrior culture started to ascend to primacy.

Sinergy


mmmm, Himiko, the first queen of Japan, who was served by a 1,000 women, and who only allowed one male to serve in the palace.



Aswad -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/8/2007 3:52:06 AM)

Sinergy:

Interesting, indeed. One wonders what sparked off that direction. [:D]

The mention of Himiko by peepeegirl5 as well. Yamato is an interesting subject.

Apparently, she has written some related essays, which would make for an interesting read if I wasn't blocked. One about the influence of the T'ang dynasty on the Japanese courts, in particular.

Oddly unified yet divergent culture.



Aswad -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/8/2007 4:09:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

My name is thompson please do me the courtesy of using it, we do not know each other well enough for you to assume familiarities.


My apologies, Mr. Thompson.

I let my annoyance with some of the less productive exchanges in the thread get the better of me and forgot my manners. Assuming familiarity was not my intent; abbreviating your screen name was merely force of habit from elsewhere.

quote:

Tell Mr. Bergen to put a muzzle on mortimer mc snerd or I will break him up for kindling to light the fire that consumes Mr. Bergen.


I'm afraid your meaning is lost on me here. Culture- or language-barrier, perhaps?

I do not know who Mr. Bergen is, and as I've said, I have had little exposure to a large segment of American culture, so "mortimer mc snerd" is lost on me as well. If you'll clarify what you meant here, that would be greatly appreciated.



Aswad -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/8/2007 4:26:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Aswad's posts are so esoteric and obscure, I have yet to understand one


Sorry. [sm=banghead.gif]

I hope it's just that you've ended up seeing the wrong posts.

In this thread, and a few others, I've been straying fairly far afield, but for the most part, I have tried to make sense. If I have failed at that, I'd appreciate any pointers as to how I can improve the clarity of my posts.

quote:

Either that or spend the next 50 years trying to learn Japanese or heaven forbid Norwegian.


Why would anyone want to learn Norwegian?

I've yet to find more than a couple of decent books authored in Norwegian that would lose anything in translation. So, unless you want to go for an extended vacation (I hear the fjords and glaciers are nice; never saw the attraction, myself), I'm thinking there's a joke here I'm not getting. Probably one on me.

If you clue me in, I'll laugh along, though. A bit of humility never hurt anyone. Much. For long. [:D]



thompsonx -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/8/2007 6:36:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

My name is thompson please do me the courtesy of using it, we do not know each other well enough for you to assume familiarities.


My apologies, Mr. Thompson.

I let my annoyance with some of the less productive exchanges in the thread get the better of me and forgot my manners. Assuming familiarity was not my intent; abbreviating your screen name was merely force of habit from elsewhere.

quote:

Tell Mr. Bergen to put a muzzle on mortimer mc snerd or I will break him up for kindling to light the fire that consumes Mr. Bergen.


I'm afraid your meaning is lost on me here. Culture- or language-barrier, perhaps?

I do not know who Mr. Bergen is, and as I've said, I have had little exposure to a large segment of American culture, so "mortimer mc snerd" is lost on me as well. If you'll clarify what you meant here, that would be greatly appreciated.


Aswad:
thompson is sufficient the Mr. is unnecessary.
My meaning, I should think, would be quite clear to anyone with a three digit IQ.
I am somewhat confused that a person of your intellectual capacity would be ignorant of goggle.
thompson



Aswad -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/8/2007 9:13:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

thompson is sufficient the Mr. is unnecessary.


Either is fine by me. I'll assume "thompson" is your preferred form of address, since you pointed it out, unless you state otherwise; I have no problem sticking to the form of address you prefer.

quote:

My meaning, I should think, would be quite clear to anyone with a three digit IQ.


As I am sure you know, intelligence does not confer knowledge, wisdom or experience. I would add that familiarity with foreign cultures and foreign languages is not conferred either, which is self-evident, but perhaps didn't come to mind. Note also that I have made no claims about any of these, though I noted that the IQ (which is a meaningless figure) has been rated by third parties as being around the 99th percentile.

Either way, your meaning was not, and is not, clear to me.

quote:

I am somewhat confused that a person of your intellectual capacity would be ignorant of goggle.


I am not ignorant of Google.

I use their search engine all the time, and enjoy the publications of their director of research, Dr. Peter Norvig.

However, they turn up one hit for "mortimer mc snerd", who is apparently a ventriloquist's doll, and Mr. Bergen turns up too many hits to distinguish a particular figure, though maybe it's the ventriloquist himself.

In short, I don't have a clue, and google isn't helping. Could you please enlighten me?

And sarcasm wasn't necessary. I didn't try to insult anyone.



thompsonx -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/8/2007 11:08:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

thompson is sufficient the Mr. is unnecessary.


Either is fine by me. I'll assume "thompson" is your preferred form of address, since you pointed it out, unless you state otherwise; I have no problem sticking to the form of address you prefer.

quote:

My meaning, I should think, would be quite clear to anyone with a three digit IQ.


As I am sure you know, intelligence does not confer knowledge, wisdom or experience. I would add that familiarity with foreign cultures and foreign languages is not conferred either, which is self-evident, but perhaps didn't come to mind. Note also that I have made no claims about any of these, though I noted that the IQ (which is a meaningless figure) has been rated by third parties as being around the 99th percentile.

Either way, your meaning was not, and is not, clear to me.

quote:

I am somewhat confused that a person of your intellectual capacity would be ignorant of goggle.


I am not ignorant of Google.

I use their search engine all the time, and enjoy the publications of their director of research, Dr. Peter Norvig.

However, they turn up one hit for "mortimer mc snerd", who is apparently a ventriloquist's doll, and Mr. Bergen turns up too many hits to distinguish a particular figure, though maybe it's the ventriloquist himself.

In short, I don't have a clue, and google isn't helping. Could you please enlighten me?

And sarcasm wasn't necessary. I didn't try to insult anyone.


Aswad:
When I enter mortimer mc snerd on google I find more than 200 hits.  All of them reference Mr. Bergen.
It is your feigned ignorance that I find insulting.
Since you persist in this sophomoric charade I will spell it out.  You have more than one persona,  I have suggested you put a muzzle on the rude one.   Anyone who choses to use the search function on cm can align them and compare syntax and diction and find they match to a degree that defies denial.
Is there some part of the above that escapes your claimed 99th percentile IQ?
thompson



Aswad -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/8/2007 1:00:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

When I enter mortimer mc snerd on google I find more than 200 hits.  All of them reference Mr. Bergen.


The search I performed was with quotes, and returned 1 hit, as you can see at this link.

Sorry for not checking it out closer, but yeah, as I said, it made sense to assume Mr. Bergen was the ventriloquist. I'll admit to not having clicked the link, since I didn't at first get what ventriloquism had to do with anything.

I've heard the term "sockpuppet" used to describe one of the possibilities you're implying, though.

quote:

It is your feigned ignorance that I find insulting.


I'm afraid you overestimate me.

I apologize for any perceived insult, but I cannot remember having feigned ignorance; if you have any specific instance in mind, point it out, along with what you feel I am feigning ignorance of, and I'll explain to the best of my ability.

quote:

Since you persist in this sophomoric charade I will spell it out. You have more than one persona,  I have suggested you put a muzzle on the rude one. Anyone who choses to use the search function on cm can align them and compare syntax and diction and find they match to a degree that defies denial.


By this, do you mean to imply that I have multiple accounts on CM, or that I have multiple behaviours for a single account?

If the former, then, yes, I had/have two accounts. I originally registered one called the Black Man or some variation thereof, then lost access to the account. Later, I have created the current one, Aswad, which is Arabic for the same thing; both usernames are based on the same fictional character, but that's beside the point. Only one of these accounts is in use, to the best of my knowledge, as I no longer even have access to the mail address to which the former account was registered.

I do not have any "sockpuppets" on CM.

If your implication is that I have multiple behaviours, that may well be the case, as it often is for people. I've been rather disjoint lately in the offline world, as well, if that is what you're thinking about. Insomnia and stress seems a likely cause.

Are you thinking specifically about this thread, or the forum in general?

I do try to avoid being rude, but I'm sure I've screwed up more than once. Feel free to point out any potential improvements, here or on the other side. The exceptions to the rule of trying, as far as I can remember and off the top of my head, are peepeegirl5 and Rapture at a handful of posts each, and a single post to fyreredsub, for which I apologized. But my memory hasn't been what it used to be since I fell ill, so I may be missing a few, and I'm not perfect.

Sorry about whatever offense I may have caused you. Please do not ascribe to malice what may adequately be explained by incompetence or occasional bouts of stupidity on my part.

quote:

Is there some part of the above that escapes your claimed 99th percentile IQ?


Yes, the part where syntax and diction seem to imply that you are accusing me of maintaining a sockpuppet account, which is not the case. And the part where my IQ (a meaningless figure that others first brought up) is supposed to matter in any of this. And why it is okay for you to be rude to me when I'm honestly just trying to settle any differences we might have.

[sm=whiteflag.gif]

So, please, can you assume good faith, or at least explain to me where I'm messing up?

Without feedback, I cannot improve. The other side is fine, unless you prefer to launder me in public.

Sincerely,
Aswad.



thompsonx -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/8/2007 3:35:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

When I enter mortimer mc snerd on google I find more than 200 hits.  All of them reference Mr. Bergen.


The search I performed was with quotes, and returned 1 hit, as you can see at this link.

Sorry for not checking it out closer, but yeah, as I said, it made sense to assume Mr. Bergen was the ventriloquist. I'll admit to not having clicked the link, since I didn't at first get what ventriloquism had to do with anything.

I've heard the term "sockpuppet" used to describe one of the possibilities you're implying, though.

quote:

It is your feigned ignorance that I find insulting.


I'm afraid you overestimate me.

I apologize for any perceived insult, but I cannot remember having feigned ignorance; if you have any specific instance in mind, point it out, along with what you feel I am feigning ignorance of, and I'll explain to the best of my ability.

quote:

Since you persist in this sophomoric charade I will spell it out. You have more than one persona,  I have suggested you put a muzzle on the rude one. Anyone who choses to use the search function on cm can align them and compare syntax and diction and find they match to a degree that defies denial.


By this, do you mean to imply that I have multiple accounts on CM, or that I have multiple behaviours for a single account?

If the former, then, yes, I had/have two accounts. I originally registered one called the Black Man or some variation thereof, then lost access to the account. Later, I have created the current one, Aswad, which is Arabic for the same thing; both usernames are based on the same fictional character, but that's beside the point. Only one of these accounts is in use, to the best of my knowledge, as I no longer even have access to the mail address to which the former account was registered.

I do not have any "sockpuppets" on CM.

If your implication is that I have multiple behaviours, that may well be the case, as it often is for people. I've been rather disjoint lately in the offline world, as well, if that is what you're thinking about. Insomnia and stress seems a likely cause.

Are you thinking specifically about this thread, or the forum in general?

I do try to avoid being rude, but I'm sure I've screwed up more than once. Feel free to point out any potential improvements, here or on the other side. The exceptions to the rule of trying, as far as I can remember and off the top of my head, are peepeegirl5 and Rapture at a handful of posts each, and a single post to fyreredsub, for which I apologized. But my memory hasn't been what it used to be since I fell ill, so I may be missing a few, and I'm not perfect.

Sorry about whatever offense I may have caused you. Please do not ascribe to malice what may adequately be explained by incompetence or occasional bouts of stupidity on my part.

quote:

Is there some part of the above that escapes your claimed 99th percentile IQ?


Yes, the part where syntax and diction seem to imply that you are accusing me of maintaining a sockpuppet account, which is not the case. And the part where my IQ (a meaningless figure that others first brought up) is supposed to matter in any of this. And why it is okay for you to be rude to me when I'm honestly just trying to settle any differences we might have.

[sm=whiteflag.gif]

So, please, can you assume good faith, or at least explain to me where I'm messing up?

Without feedback, I cannot improve. The other side is fine, unless you prefer to launder me in public.

Sincerely,
Aswad.


Aswad:
I have clearly stated my position.
You keep a muzzle on mortimer mc snerd and me and thee will have no problems.
Life is filled with choices.  I am sure you will make the one that you feel is in your best interest.
thompson



Aswad -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/8/2007 3:59:51 PM)

thompson:

Fine. I'll make the only choice available to me: call you "thompson", and otherwise carry on. Hope that will work out for you.

I don't get what your position is, in any way, shape or form, though. You're of course free to point out a problem whenever it happens, or deal with it any other way you might feel like, but you did not provide enough information for me to discern your meaning this time.

It may be stated clearly, but it isn't clear to me. My fault, probably; I dunno.

Best wishes,
Aswad.



MuscleyandCute -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/9/2007 3:28:21 AM)

Geniuses are insane because the more intelligent you are the closer this is to insanity.  Insanity is when one tries to rationalize what they cannot, therefor they will have unfounded rationalizations or in other words "delusions".  Someone of lower intelligence will be more ignorant therefor will only have the ability to rationalize what is already simple and rational, a few steps behind if you will. 

Knowledge is not finite, the more you know the more you realize you dont know.  So the more intelligent you are the closer you are to being aware there is a lot that you dont know, you are fucked becuase you try to rationalize what you cannot as best as you can then as soon as you think you do you are way off the mark and psychotic and delusional.


Im not a genuis or amazingly intelligent, Im just in the top 5% of intelligence and was handed out some psychiatric drugs like sweets by an incompetant Doctor which sent me insane.


I have been inside mental hospitals a few times (3), not many intelligent people in there though nor geniuses, just lots of people of average intelligence who have been a bit too "enlightened" by illicit drugs.



Aswad -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/9/2007 4:53:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MuscleyandCute

Geniuses are insane because the more intelligent you are the closer this is to insanity.


I'd offer a slightly different approach to the argument you presented, and contend that it isn't about genious.

Intelligence combined with introspection and/or a seeker-mentality will tend to lead to full realization of certain irreducible truths in a sense that cannot be conveyed in words. These truths betray the lies that are the foundation upon which our minds, our lives, and our societies, along with virtually every concept of relevance to us, are based. In short, the worldview is irrevocably shattered.

This can cause an emotional and cognitive limbo, where the person is cast adrift in a world with no givens, no values, and no points of reference, just like the real world. When certain kinds of fantasy books deal with "magic", particularly in High Fantasy works, they sometimes speak of an awakening; an experience in which the "wizard" grasps reality on a fundamental level which cannot be expressed, and of the terrible price exacted by this knowledge, the forbidden truths not meant for man to know.

While there is certainly no magic in intelligence, and these things are dramatized for the purpose of making good reading, there is some element of truth to what they speak of. There comes a point where the entirety of perceivable reality has been sorted into the piles "null and void", "meaningless" and "pointless", and the arbitrariness of perception, consciousness and existence sinks in. That is the "awakening".

There are no "special education" classes to deal with this.

The foundations of the mind are swept aside, and there are no coping skills in place to deal with the resulting vacuum. Most quickly realize that they can put those foundations back in place, but that is either a delusion (in the true sense of the word), or a pretense that is known to be hollow. The former is a state of psychosis, literally. The latter is just similar to the core problem of borderline personality disorder. Insanity, indeed.

Alternately, one can accept the vacuum, which creates a fluid state that has the melded characteristics of several forms of mental illness, and can create a slide toward some of the darker forms of "insanity", reminiscent of some of the sidetracks towards the path to "awakening". The sidetracks being the ones you see on crime library and such; genious doesn't factor into the sidetracks at all, I think.

Even in the absence of guidance that could prepare one for these things and provide coping strategies, most eventually find some way or another to deal with it, but this will have its own problems. Regardless of the coping strategy chosen, these will almost invariably contain elements of "insanity", ranging from small behavioural quirks, to full loss of mental integrity. I'm only familiar with my own coping strategies, so I couldn't comment on those used by others, but I'm sure there are many variations.

I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I think it comes down to regaining a sense of direction, and finding a way to arbitrarily construct a worldview that is sufficiently congruent to that of society at large so as to avoid incarceration or hospitalization, all of it arranged as a coherent, internally consistent and harmonious whole. In short, what I think the orientals called "enlightenment".

Some who are open to the idea of the supernatural have also proposed that there may be a similar "breakthrough" into that realm, but I have no way to support such theories or even speculate as to what that might be like, or how that could work. While it is an interesting thought, it cannot IMO be a fruitful topic of discourse for anyone who has not "awakened" in a spiritual sense, though I'll say this appears to be what the Gnostic faiths have been thinking about with regard to breaking the soul free from its prison of flesh.

quote:

[...]was handed out some psychiatric drugs like sweets by an incompetant Doctor which sent me insane.


Now, that seems familiar. Such is what prompted me to master the parts of that field relevant to me.

quote:

I have been inside mental hospitals a few times (3), not many intelligent people in there though nor geniuses, just lots of people of average intelligence who have been a bit too "enlightened" by illicit drugs.


I've never been inside as a patient, but I've spent a fair bit of time in them for other reasons.

We considered hospitalization for a while, when I was really, really messed up (for entirely different reasons than those mentioned above), but there was no viable way anyone could do so without completely screwing up my life to the point where there would be no pieces left to pick up upon release, by three pdoc's assessment and my own.

Such would have given a poor prognosis for treatment. And they got that same worried look that I wear on the inside when they started thinking about the interactions between having no life to go back to, and having no points of reference to "pin down" the mind in a stable state. The quick conclusion was to give me a direct line to the ward in question and continue intensive outpatient treatment. Turns out to have been a wise choice.

Anyway, just my 2 cents. Hope someone found it useful, interesting or entertaining.



philosophy -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/9/2007 12:21:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MuscleyandCute

Insanity is when one tries to rationalize what they cannot, therefor they will have unfounded rationalizations or in other words "delusions". 


...sounds more like a definition of faith to me, as opposed to insanity.



Aswad -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/9/2007 3:47:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...sounds more like a definition of faith to me, as opposed to insanity.


From a mental illness perspective (DSM and ICD), the distinction is whether the view is culturally accepted.

In practice: For a person in the West to believe in G*d is not mental illness, while believing oneself divinely inspired is a mental illness if the people making the diagnosis don't share that belief. For a person in the former USSR to believe Communism was a bad idea was mental illness, while believing it had flaws, or might have had flaws, would only be a mental illness if the doc was strictly communist.

When you hear former USSR docs explain, with great pride, how they "cured" some particularly "difficult" patient of these delusions, just shake your head, tell yourself that's insane, move on to someone from the West dealing with a delusional patient in the West, then listen to them explain, with great pride, how they have "cured" some particularly "difficult" patient of some delusion or other, then shake your head, and realize just how arbitrary the lines are.

It may seem "self-evident" to us that said USSR doc was wrong. It wasn't self-evident when listening to him present his "case study" to a convention hall of psychiatric health care personell from around the world. This millenium, yes. People took him seriously, too. A doc giving such a presentation often doesn't give too much information about the case, so it didn't seem odd when he focused on the "paranoid" features and the patient's reaction to hospitalization and so forth...

Only when you paid very close attention to what he was saying, could you piece together what he was describing:

A political dissident.



Sinergy -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/9/2007 4:18:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aswad

Interesting, indeed. One wonders what sparked off that direction. [:D]



If I remember my dates correctly, the artist and philosopher was the highest caste in Japanese society around 1000AD.  The soldier / warrior was at the bottom.

The Chinese eventually crossed the straits of Japan around that time and so began a period of interaction (peaceful) in terms of trade, language, writing, etc.

In 1281, the Japanese watched in horror as the Chinese assembled an enormous fleet and set sail cross the Straits of Japan to invade.  The Japanese had no military means to repel this invasion, and saw it as the beginning of the end.  A storm, later called the Banzai (Divine Wind) blew in and sank almost the entire Chinese fleet before it touched ground in Japan.

Shortly after that, the Japanese began to build up their military to try to be ready in case the Chinese came again, and eventually the warrior caste assumed primacy.  What was curious about their warrior caste is that it was heavily influenced by the philosophies and cultural mores of the Japanese, which used such concepts as found in Buddhism, Shinto, and Chan (Zen) to allow the warrior to be spiritually connected.

Eventually, circa 1641, Tokugawa Ieyasu and the other Shogunates kicked out the Jesuit priests and all "gaijin" from Japan and went relatively isolationist.  Their only major interactions with others involved Russians on Hokkaido, some Dutch, Chinese interactions, etc., and were relatively small-scale.  This lasted until Admiral Perry sailed 4 gunships into Shui harbor in 1853, and demanded the Japanese open up their country to foreigners, on threat of bombardment.

Sinergy



Aswad -> RE: So Why Are All The Genius's Insane? (6/9/2007 5:38:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

What was curious about their warrior caste is that it was heavily influenced by the philosophies and cultural mores of the Japanese, which used such concepts as found in Buddhism, Shinto, and Chan (Zen) to allow the warrior to be spiritually connected.


~nod~

They have an amazingly complete approach to things, I would say. And the ideal of the warrior as an artist and philosopher remains to this day in certain koryu arts, along with a very effective way of imparting body dynamics and muscle memory, things that set these apart from most (but not all) other arts.

Need is the mother of invention, it is said, and I'd say their inventions have been fairly creative in many ways.

quote:

Eventually, circa 1641, Tokugawa Ieyasu and the other Shogunates kicked out the Jesuit priests and all "gaijin" from Japan and went relatively isolationist.


~nod~

There's still a fair bit of that xenophobia left today, from what I've heard.

On the bright side, it may have been a part of how they have managed to preserve their sacred sites and forests for so long. Some of the sacred forests are awe-inspiring, even from pictures, and the various temples and such have a very special air about them. I hope I'll get around to experiencing some of them in person soon.



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