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shyinini -> about submission (5/23/2007 9:15:39 AM)
Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive when with your dominant? Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive during play? Are a a submissive who "feels" like your dominant is in control no matter how far apart you are? If you live with your dominant, do you have to get into some headspace to “feel” submission? Or does it naturally flow? Is your relationship with your dominant more internal (residing in or dependent on essential nature; intrinsic) or external (relating to, existing on, or connected with the outside or an outer part)? Does your submission exist independently of the mind? Or in it intrinsically dependent upon your nature as a submissive? My motivation (since it has been questioned in the past) for this post lies in a discussion Sir and I had. I have few submissive friends to ask this of who I can trust with even knowing what I might possibly mean in asking these questions...so I bring them here.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: about submission (5/23/2007 9:19:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shyinini Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive when with your dominant? No quote: Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive during play? No. quote: Are a a submissive who "feels" like your dominant is in control no matter how far apart you are? No- I feel like he has the ultimate authority no matter how far apart we are. quote: If you live with your dominant, do you have to get into some headspace to “feel” submission? Or does it naturally flow? Yes. Sometimes one, sometimes the other. Almost always it's a flow. quote: Is your relationship with your dominant more internal (residing in or dependent on essential nature; intrinsic) or external (relating to, existing on, or connected with the outside or an outer part)? Neither/Both. quote: Does your submission exist independently of the mind? Does anything exist independently of the mind? I don't understand this question. quote: Or in it intrinsically dependent upon your nature as a submissive? Can you please clarify?

daddysprop247 -> RE: about submission (5/23/2007 9:22:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shyinini Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive when with your dominant? Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive during play? Are a a submissive who "feels" like your dominant is in control no matter how far apart you are? If you live with your dominant, do you have to get into some headspace to “feel” submission? Or does it naturally flow? Is your relationship with your dominant more internal (residing in or dependent on essential nature; intrinsic) or external (relating to, existing on, or connected with the outside or an outer part)? Does your submission exist independently of the mind? Or in it intrinsically dependent upon your nature as a submissive? My motivation (since it has been questioned in the past) for this post lies in a discussion Sir and I had. I have few submissive friends to ask this of who I can trust with even knowing what I might possibly mean in asking these questions...so I bring them here. good questions, hope you get some interesting responses. my submission is intrinsic and instinctive...it is not dependent on any external force or situation, my Master included. it is simply a part of my nature/personality. however although my submission is natural and a given, my Master's dominance is as well...which means that he still actively controls me and my life.

NakedGirlScout -> RE: about submission (5/23/2007 9:23:30 AM)
Hi shyinini, I'm sure you'll get lots of replies but what is the goal you have, to do a study of the variety of submissives here or to find out if you are "in the norm" among them? If it's the latter it can make you feel like a fish out of the water, I know that from prior experience. 1. No, I feel submissive to almost everyone until I get to know them better, at which point it depends on how dominating they are. 2. No, I feel submissive most of the time. Sometimes I get into another mood but it never lasts. 3. Yes I feel him no matter where he is. It might help that he was willing and able to talk to me on the phone for 4+ hours every day. 4. I don't need to get into a headspace, but sometimes I need to be reminded of my place if I get into a mood. Normally I feel submissive no matter what, but the intensity varies with how intimate we have been. 5. Intrinsic vs. External? Could you please define this better, I didn't understand. 6. Submission existing independently of the mind? Again, I didn't understand your question. best wishes, Molly

justheather -> RE: about submission (5/23/2007 9:26:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shyinini Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive when with your dominant? The nice thing about a D/s relationship is that even when there is no particular internal phenomenon like "feeling" submissive, the relationship dynamic is there to tell you "well, too bad, submission isnt about your feelings". It's like my saying "I dont feel like a mother". Somewhat nonsensical, because my being a mother to my UM has nothing to do with my feelings. It has to do with my relationship to him, which is a constant. quote: Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive during play? We don't really even operate within this model, so I can easily say "no" to this one. quote: Are a a submissive who "feels" like your dominant is in control no matter how far apart you are? Daddy decides. That has nothing to do with geography. quote: If you live with your dominant, do you have to get into some headspace to “feel” submission? Or does it naturally flow? Again, I hate to sound like Im blowing off the question, but it just is. I might not feel like doing any particular thing, but my feelings don't dictate my behaviors in our dynamic. And, actually, I think that that fact alone can be a sort of short-track to those sub feelings people talk about...because Im doing it no matter whether I feel it or not, almost always leads me to "feel" it anyway. Ain't the mind an amazing thing! quote: Is your relationship with your dominant more internal (residing in or dependent on essential nature; intrinsic) or external (relating to, existing on, or connected with the outside or an outer part)? My relationship with my dom is based on the fact that I love him dearly. Im with him because I love him. Im submissive to him because that's the dynamic we both have agreed to. quote: Does your submission exist independently of the mind? Or in it intrinsically dependent upon your nature as a submissive? Im not sure if this is one question or two, but either way, I dont understand the question(s). quote: My motivation (since it has been questioned in the past) for this post lies in a discussion Sir and I had. I have few submissive friends to ask this of who I can trust with even knowing what I might possibly mean in asking these questions...so I bring them here. No need to 'splain to me. Thanks for some thought-provoking questions.

darkinshadows -> RE: about submission (5/23/2007 9:36:42 AM)
quote: Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive when with your dominant? No. quote: Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive during play? No. quote: Are a a submissive who "feels" like your dominant is in control no matter how far apart you are? Control - not really. He does have, as Em has stated, ultimate authority. quote: If you live with your dominant, do you have to get into some headspace to “feel” submission? Or does it naturally flow? Do not live with him, but evenso it is natural flow. quote: Is your relationship with your dominant more internal (residing in or dependent on essential nature; intrinsic) or external (relating to, existing on, or connected with the outside or an outer part)? Both and neither, depending on circumstance. quote: Does your submission exist independently of the mind? Or in it intrinsically dependent upon your nature as a submissive? Not sure I understand - do you mean it exists without thinking and analysing?

Mercnbeth -> RE: about submission (5/23/2007 9:49:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shyinini Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive when with your dominant? Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive during play? Are a a submissive who "feels" like your dominant is in control no matter how far apart you are? If you live with your dominant, do you have to get into some headspace to “feel” submission? Or does it naturally flow? it isn't a feeling to this slave, so this slave has no idea what it "feels" like, with regards to the above questions. it is an automatic reaction as well as a well-honed learned response to everyone and everything this slave comes into contact with(except dogs.[:)]) quote: Is your relationship with your dominant more internal (residing in or dependent on essential nature; intrinsic) or external (relating to, existing on, or connected with the outside or an outer part)? it is complete, total, all encompassing, physical and mental, inner and outer. quote: Does your submission exist independently of the mind? Or in it intrinsically dependent upon your nature as a submissive? ???

shyinini -> RE: about submission (5/23/2007 9:51:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: justheather quote: ORIGINAL: shyinini Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive when with your dominant? The nice thing about a D/s relationship is that even when there is no particular internal phenomenon like "feeling" submissive, the relationship dynamic is there to tell you "well, too bad, submission isnt about your feelings". It's like my saying "I dont feel like a mother". Somewhat nonsensical, because my being a mother to my UM has nothing to do with my feelings. It has to do with my relationship to him, which is a constant. quote: Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive during play? We don't really even operate within this model, so I can easily say "no" to this one. quote: Are a a submissive who "feels" like your dominant is in control no matter how far apart you are? Daddy decides. That has nothing to do with geography. Heather... Might I ask for clarification? Does your D decide when he is in control or when you should give up control? What exactly do you mean by "Daddy decides" Decides what? quote: If you live with your dominant, do you have to get into some headspace to “feel” submission? Or does it naturally flow? Again, I hate to sound like Im blowing off the question, but it just is. I might not feel like doing any particular thing, but my feelings don't dictate my behaviors in our dynamic. And, actually, I think that that fact alone can be a sort of short-track to those sub feelings people talk about...because Im doing it no matter whether I feel it or not, almost always leads me to "feel" it anyway. Ain't the mind an amazing thing! quote: Is your relationship with your dominant more internal (residing in or dependent on essential nature; intrinsic) or external (relating to, existing on, or connected with the outside or an outer part)? My relationship with my dom is based on the fact that I love him dearly. Im with him because I love him. Im submissive to him because that's the dynamic we both have agreed to. quote: Does your submission exist independently of the mind? Or in it intrinsically dependent upon your nature as a submissive? Im not sure if this is one question or two, but either way, I dont understand the question(s). quote: My motivation (since it has been questioned in the past) for this post lies in a discussion Sir and I had. I have few submissive friends to ask this of who I can trust with even knowing what I might possibly mean in asking these questions...so I bring them here. No need to 'splain to me. Thanks for some thought-provoking questions.

shyinini -> RE: about submission (5/23/2007 9:54:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: darkinshadows quote: Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive when with your dominant? No. quote: Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive during play? No. quote: Are a a submissive who "feels" like your dominant is in control no matter how far apart you are? Control - not really. He does have, as Em has stated, ultimate authority. quote: If you live with your dominant, do you have to get into some headspace to “feel” submission? Or does it naturally flow? Do not live with him, but evenso it is natural flow. quote: Is your relationship with your dominant more internal (residing in or dependent on essential nature; intrinsic) or external (relating to, existing on, or connected with the outside or an outer part)? Both and neither, depending on circumstance. quote: Does your submission exist independently of the mind? Or in it intrinsically dependent upon your nature as a submissive? Not sure I understand - do you mean it exists without thinking and analysing? Yes dark, thanks for clarifying...it is what I mean.

shyinini -> RE: about submission (5/23/2007 9:57:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: ORIGINAL: shyinini Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive when with your dominant? Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive during play? Are a a submissive who "feels" like your dominant is in control no matter how far apart you are? If you live with your dominant, do you have to get into some headspace to “feel” submission? Or does it naturally flow? it isn't a feeling to this slave, so this slave has no idea what it "feels" like, with regards to the above questions. it is an automatic reaction as well as a well-honed learned response to everyone and everything this slave comes into contact with(except dogs.[:)]) I love this response Mrs Merc. It has nothing to do with feelings....but so often I hear or read submissives talking about "feeling submissive." Tis why I used "..." around the word feel. Thank you quote: Is your relationship with your dominant more internal (residing in or dependent on essential nature; intrinsic) or external (relating to, existing on, or connected with the outside or an outer part)? it is complete, total, all encompassing, physical and mental, inner and outer. quote: Does your submission exist independently of the mind? Or in it intrinsically dependent upon your nature as a submissive? ???

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: about submission (5/23/2007 10:00:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shyinini I love this response Mrs Merc. It has nothing to do with feelings....but so often I hear or read submissives talking about "feeling submissive." Tis why I used "..." around the word feel. Thank you You specifically asked about feelings. Now ask about states of being. I do not need to feel submissive in order to know that I AM a submissive. They do not equate to one another at all. This is why people get so confused when I tell them I am not a masochist but that I still get involved with sadists. I don't have to FEEL good about the pain, I just have to take it.

darkinshadows -> RE: about submission (5/23/2007 10:06:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shyinini quote: ORIGINAL: darkinshadows quote: Does your submission exist independently of the mind? Or in it intrinsically dependent upon your nature as a submissive? Not sure I understand - do you mean it exists without thinking and analysing? Yes dark, thanks for clarifying...it is what I mean. This is where I would agree with Em - that I do not have to be in an active submissive state/role or feel submissive to know I am submissive. Does that answer clearly shy? Peace

justheather -> RE: about submission (5/23/2007 10:08:43 AM)
Sure, I will try to clarify. Daddy decides what he wants to control and what he doesnt, yes, but ultimately, any choice I make should be made with him in mind. I know what pleases him and what does not, and when it comes down to it, he has the authority to make the final decision about any given situation. We do not operate on a safeword/negotiation/pickandchoose-what-is-given-up sort of relationship model. I gave blanket consent, once. This consent applies when Im in his presence or not. Now, I know that as I type this Im opening myself up to the whole "no limits" argument which of course shares several borders with the "sub vs slave" debate...but Im just talking about my relationship. I found him to be someone in whom I could place my trust. It's a living relationship, so there are obviously foibles and discussions and places where jumping off cliffs is a little scarier than others. But ultimately, it all goes back to the core of our dynamic. And that is that Daddy decides. So, my answer was basically saying that it doesnt matter whether I am in his physical presence or far from him, the fact that Im submissive to him does not change. I hope that helps.

Mercnbeth -> RE: about submission (5/23/2007 10:14:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shyinini Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive when with your dominant? Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive during play? Are a a submissive who "feels" like your dominant is in control no matter how far apart you are? If you live with your dominant, do you have to get into some headspace to “feel” submission? Or does it naturally flow? it isn't a feeling to this slave, so this slave has no idea what it "feels" like, with regards to the above questions. it is an automatic reaction as well as a well-honed learned response to everyone and everything this slave comes into contact with(except dogs.[:)]) quote: I love this response Mrs Merc. It has nothing to do with feelings....but so often I hear or read submissives talking about "feeling submissive." Tis why I used "..." around the word feel. Thank you well, it might not be something that you or this slave "feels", but others report that they do, so it must have something to do with it for them...this slave believes there is nothing wrong with that, either. Noah started a giiii-normous thread awhile back, you might enjoy reading some of the posters descriptions of how they feel when they submit. it was very informative and interesting thread to this slave. http://www.collarchat.com/m_707814/mpage_1/key_submissiveness%2Cfeels/tm.htm

justheather -> RE: about submission (5/23/2007 10:22:22 AM)
quote: giiii-normous My seven-year-old asked me how to spell this "word" yesterday. I think I left a couple of i's out. :-)

charismagirrl -> RE: about submission (5/23/2007 10:32:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: shyinini Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive when with your dominant? No Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive during play? No Are a a submissive who "feels" like your dominant is in control no matter how far apart you are? Yes If you live with your dominant, do you have to get into some headspace to “feel” submission? Or does it naturally flow?It flows naturally but sometimes i feel off centered and need extra tasks to help me feel more centered...always submissive but sometimes not in "slave space" Is your relationship with your dominant more internal (residing in or dependent on essential nature; intrinsic) or external (relating to, existing on, or connected with the outside or an outer part)?More internal Does your submission exist independently of the mind? ABsolutely Or in it intrinsically dependent upon your nature as a submissive?The way i am understanding this part of your question, the two sound the same to me. Sometimes my submission is totally on auto pilot, my mind could be angry for instance and yet my body does what i am supposed to do....this sounds to me like the answer to part A of your question. Part B....well because i am naturally submissive everything i do is dependant on that, rather than say, being beaten into a state of submission. Or am i totally misunderstanding?

jauntyone -> RE: about submission (5/23/2007 12:01:57 PM)
Greetings quote: Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive when with your dominant? No. I am submissive always, to all and everyone who I feel are superior to myself. quote: Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive during play? Since Master and I do not play in the sense that you are meaning ( sceneing etc ), I can only repeat what I answered for the first question. quote: If you live with your dominant, do you have to get into some headspace to “feel” submission? Or does it naturally flow? Master and I do live together, but I am afraid that I am confused as to what you would mean about 'having to get into a headspace'. I am always submissive, there is no headspace to get into. quote: Is your relationship with your dominant more internal (residing in or dependent on essential nature; intrinsic) or external (relating to, existing on, or connected with the outside or an outer part)? It is both; but if I had to choose one, I would say that for myself, it is more internal. I could not, nor would I presume to answer for Master. quote: Does your submission exist independently of the mind? I AM my submission. It it a part of me. There is no seperation between submission and me. I wish you well melissa

Aiah -> RE: about submission (5/23/2007 10:50:52 PM)
quote: No. I am submissive always, to all and everyone who I feel are superior to myself. quote: ORIGINAL: jauntyone Greetings quote: Are you a submissive who only "feels" submissive when with your dominant? No. I am submissive always, to all and everyone who I feel are superior to myself. Is this something that you're comfortable with? Is it something intrinsic? Do you think that, were you to desire to change it (limit the submission only to say, a single dom or such) do you think you could?

eyesopened -> RE: about submission (5/24/2007 12:52:20 AM)
It took me a long time to see myself as i truely am because i have often been in roles of either a supervisor, manager, or at very least self-directed in my career. Many have assumed i am Dominant because of that. However it wasn't until i was at a seminar where they talked about the "servant-leader" as a managment style that i realised what was really going on with me. i don't "feel" submissive i just have a deep need and drive to serve in all aspects of my life with all whom i come in conatct. That being said, during the times when i have been in service to a Dominant, i can say i like rules and protocol to help me get away from the rest of the world and focus solely on the time i am spending with the Dominant. Since i have never been in a collared or 24/7 relationship i cannot comment further.

maledave7 -> RE: about submission (5/24/2007 4:05:48 AM)
For me I feel submissive to a dominant woman all the time. I feel it is part of my life. I feel I cannot just turn it off. I would feel submissive to her whether I was with her or not. I would feel that she would always be in control. I seek a long-term relationship so I feel that my submission would be internal. My heart desire would be to serve her. I feel that my submission is part of me. In my mind when I make a decision, submission plays a part in it.

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