RE: hard limits as punishment

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Lockit -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/23/2007 7:53:37 PM)
Please... I am sorry... but what the heck do you mean the ball is in his court? The ball should be in your court darling, because his court is filled with games, abuse and ignorance of you and what is decent and respectable in the lifestyle. Concent and trust and hard limits must be respected period. Why are you leaving it up to him when he clearly has broken trust, gone against your concent according to your own relationship agreements and has crossed a hard limit boundry. If you leave the ball in his court... he now can punish you because you had attitude about his punishment that you accepted to start with because he crossed your hard limit already. Wonder what he will do next? I guess the ball is in his court because he fouled the ball and you threw it back into the game. Next will we be hearing that he has further abused you and you don't know what to do with your broken heart or loss? Come on... please... respect yourself because he surely isn't respecting you and run, run, run to the farthest place you can find. I am sure you can get a lot of support from people here if you take yourself out of this game because that is surely what it is, only it isn't just a game here... it is your life and you are being abused. Period. Are you going to allow it? Lockit

slaveish -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/23/2007 7:58:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: soultoshare to all, and the one that is in jeopardy.....no woman to woman contact at all......which he had agreed to already. i have no idea why he chose this for punishment, escpecially as he knows i am 110% straight, and has known from the start. ~chuckle~ You don't know the answer to that one, huh?

soultoshare -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/23/2007 8:28:01 PM)
lockit, trust me, i'm not going any farther w/him. I've pretty much gotten rid of the emotional thinking, and am thinking with my head now. It wouldn't say much for my self-respect if i did stay. I just can't be what he wants, he said he didn't have a problem with me being straight, and I still believe him, but the whole hard limits thing and punishment thing popped up today, and that's something that I can't accept. As far as the woman on woman thing, he can get that pretty much anywhere, as it is my understanding that he has several friends that he plays with regularly, so I honestly don't think that's an issue. Oh well, live and learn! m

velvetears -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/23/2007 8:39:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: soultoshare the other female involved is his current bi slave, but she already hates me based on getting punished for speaking badly about me already, 3 times! So, quite frankly, she would have loved anything that would have put me in any position of refusal. And refusal is what i would be doing.....PERIOD! i smell a rat - a jelous rat who has found a very convenient way of getting rid of the competition. You're better off dumping them both - what kind of slave hates her sister sub/slave? She should be thinking about her master and how to make you feel welcome, not sabatoging you and speaking bad about you to him. Very dysfunctional poly situation.

Lockit -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/23/2007 8:51:46 PM)
Hello soultoshare, I am soooo glad you have decided to end this. Look at your nic... soultoshare... you are sharing your soul... your soul is worth so much more! The act of submission is so beautiful in my book and to treat the submission of a sweet soul and tarnish it or bruise it by devaluing the person is just a crime! You may want physical bruising... lol... but you don't need the emotional! I do hope that you can free yourself of the pain of a situation like this and move forward. There are many lessons here for you and I think you will learn them well and in the future be more prepared for what is to come. Don't think of the loses in this... but the gains you have made. It is painful no matter the situation, but you do have your friends here that can give you support during this time! Hang in there! You go girl! lol Lockit

soultoshare -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/23/2007 8:55:21 PM)
Lockit, Thanks for the kind words......so far, I've been hanging in there.....haven't cried yet, and the wine is untouched. Not to say that I won't, and it won't be, but I will get over it, I've overcome worse in the past! m

bellaballanda -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/23/2007 9:00:49 PM)
I'm coming in late but I just wanted to echo everyone else's opinion that going past your hard limits is not a good idea. In addition to this top not being good, I'm betting he did not ask his current slave how adding someone else would affect their relationship, and that probably means she'll be aginst you a lot.....

CleverAndKnowsIt -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/23/2007 9:12:10 PM)
Using hard limit punishment is an inevitable problem that certain Masters get stuck with. It seems to me that your Master wanted to punish you but felt that ‘regular’ submissive things involved in regular punishment would not be punishment enough and so he chose to use hard limit punishment; first of all because naturally since you will always seek to avoid hard limit punishments he thinks they'll work and secondly because he himself enjoyed the experience and so to him the punishment seemed to be a very good one. I think the best thing you can do is to reaffirm the limits with your Master as non-lifestyle limits because the fact that he made you do it would suggest this seemed like a lifestyle limit to him which could be pushed within your relationship. Still, this is something which I can’t comment much on because I don’t know you or your Master.

Lockit -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/23/2007 9:47:36 PM)
Soultoshare, Well there is a time for all things... but keep in mind... wine might make you cry harder and swells your eyes and stuffs your noise! It is good to have a good cry and let it out... but wine might make it worse! lol Dang if I don't know that one real well! Oh and the don't call while drinking bit... omg... Just stay strong and stay gone is what I always say to someone who hasn't been treated right in a relationship. Even if for some reason, there could be some half decent reason for what he has done... there are a lot more reasons for not doing what he has. Find a Dom/Master that knows a bit more and who doesn't need to push when maybe he needs to pull in. Good luck to you! Lockit

robertolapiedra -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/23/2007 10:44:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper <QR> I'm astonished that anyone would use hard limits as a punishment. I might be a softey, but I feel that using such valued personal information as a punishment truely diminishes trust. I'm not against working on hard limits to see if they can be changed, though. Although I classify myself as a Dom, I've played sub roles. (For me, submission is a kink) If the person dominant to me used my claustrophobia as a punishment, I'd never confide in them again. Hard limits are part of the terms of the D/s contract. It doesn't matter how the Master views the hard limit. In my eyes, a hard limit says "I do not give you permission to use me in this way." To cross that line borders rape and assault. I'm not one to make waves, but I will here. Any Dom who uses a sub's hard limits as a punishment is a fool. A fool not worthy of leadership. That being said, the sub has the responsibility to seperate "I really hate that." and "That is a hard limit." HelloHeavansKeeper. We agree. It diminishes trust and that's why it is stupid. As for the crossing the line of a hard limit, I do not find it borders rape...it is rape, pure and simple. RL.

aldompdx -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/24/2007 1:43:50 AM)
Violation of a hard limit is abuse. Period. Now that you know this person will be abusive, you must decide whether you are a self abusive person who wants to be violated.

yenlui -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/24/2007 6:26:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: imthatacheyouhav I was under the impression a hard limit was just that...a hard limit...i would have serious issues with this....if it were me.... Me too.

MissOchistic -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/24/2007 6:47:55 AM)
To me, Hard Limits are things you have made clear that you do NOT consent to. And to me, Safe, Sane, and Consensual are key. Apparently not so much to him. So, knowing he is going to make you do things without your consent....do you still walk into the dark alley alone? Or turn and leave?

drawntothedark -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/24/2007 8:00:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: robertolapiedra quote: ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper <QR> I'm astonished that anyone would use hard limits as a punishment. I might be a softey, but I feel that using such valued personal information as a punishment truely diminishes trust. I'm not against working on hard limits to see if they can be changed, though. Although I classify myself as a Dom, I've played sub roles. (For me, submission is a kink) If the person dominant to me used my claustrophobia as a punishment, I'd never confide in them again. Hard limits are part of the terms of the D/s contract. It doesn't matter how the Master views the hard limit. In my eyes, a hard limit says "I do not give you permission to use me in this way." To cross that line borders rape and assault. I'm not one to make waves, but I will here. Any Dom who uses a sub's hard limits as a punishment is a fool. A fool not worthy of leadership. That being said, the sub has the responsibility to seperate "I really hate that." and "That is a hard limit." HelloHeavansKeeper. We agree. It diminishes trust and that's why it is stupid. As for the crossing the line of a hard limit, I do not find it borders rape...it is rape, pure and simple. RL. I would not go so far as calling it rape. Now if the hard limit is carried out while the sub can't do anything about it ( bound, gagged) then it's another story. With the situation, She can still say no. She can still walk away. But to be clear, I think the guy is a snake. I think pushing this issue is a huge violation of trust. I was in a situation once where I had a hard limit pushed. (mosty I feel it was miscommunication and I learned after the fact how to state NO very clearly) but it was pushed and I did do what I said I wouldn't. Now at anytime I could have walked away from the situation. I was not bound, and I did it on my own accord. Afterwards, I felt like hell. I could hardly look at myself in the mirror. I hated myself for awhile. BUT one thing was very clear. It was my choice. Yes, he pushed for it, he orchastrated it, but I DIDN'T SAY NO. I could have. But for my own misguided reasons I didn't. I had to take the blame for it. At the end of the day, it's just you and that image of yourself in the mirror. You are responsable for you. It's great and all to put your trust in your Dom or Domme but truely you cannot be made to do anything you do not consent to. (Unless you are locked in a basement, gagged, bound, etc etc), or if your in one of those No Limit relationships (which is a totally different subject altogther)

OsideGirl -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/24/2007 8:04:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: soultoshare He has told me that my hard limits have no bearing on punishment. By this, he means that regardless of what my hard limits are, he will not honor them when i am to be punished. My hard limits are things that I find morally wrong and/or could do permanent damage to my psyche. So, anybody that told me that.....would be given notice that anyone who violates my hard limits will be removed from my life. If they actually attempted to violate my hard limits....game over. (and yes, once upon a time, I booted someone because of a hard limit.)

jaunty1 -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/24/2007 1:17:33 PM)
My girl has no limits except those that I impose upon her. However, with that said, I would never use one of them as a punishment. First of all, I don't LIKE to punish her; punishing her means that I have somehow failed at something; secondly, I would never impose a life or death situation ( whether it be physically, mentally, or emotionally )upon her simply to make a point in punishment. Personally, anyone who says that limits CAN be crossed during punishment, is looking for a way to punish you often. Live well Alex

stoicism99 -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/24/2007 2:00:03 PM)
If you question this person's ability to respect your limits, then why are you still there? Your gut instincts are generally what keeps you safe. There is more than one Dom in the world; find one that will respect what is a hard limit to you. Basically this Dom is telling you 'SSC is out the window when it comes to punishing you.' It sounds like an ego trip.

DominaSmartass -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/25/2007 9:56:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: He has told me that my hard limits have no bearing on punishment. By this, he means that regardless of what my hard limits are, he will not honor them when i am to be punished. Is this something that is normal or prevalent among Masters? Should i be concerned about this? All input, Master or sub, will be greatly appreciated. Yes you should be concerned. As the dominant you must maintain control over your master at all times. Make sure you punish him for his disrespect! Merc, I see sarcasm here. Would you mind explaining, cause I really don't understand what you're saying. Soul's position is that her Dom is telling her that any previously agreed upon hard limits, like not having sex with females, which would under normal circumstances be accepted are null and void when it comes to his decisions to punish her. Now, does that not seem hypocritical? Why agree to a relationship with such limits only to have an escape clause that makes it ok to break them? And if he's the master then he doesn't even have to have a legitimate cause for "punishment" but could basically decide that her limits are not worth respecting anytime he wants and just call it "punishment." What a cop out. Sounds like maybe he should find himself a slave whose desires match his own more closely. But I must be missing something in your reply...truly. I don't understand.

minnetar -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/25/2007 10:39:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: soultoshare the other female involved is his current bi slave, but she already hates me based on getting punished for speaking badly about me already, 3 times! So, quite frankly, she would have loved anything that would have put me in any position of refusal. And refusal is what i would be doing.....PERIOD! the punishment involved me servicing her sexually. The action that it is supposed to stop me from doing again is being impetuous......he had me post and change my profile and i had done so..then day before yesterday, i set one up on another site that i had used, but had not activated it...it's just there for him to check and edit. Apparently, i should have checked with him prior to even going as far as i did. Hell, being a newbie is a real bitch! But again, i appreciate everyone's input...i knew i'd get honest answers.....when one is dealing with emotions, it's not always the best time to make a decision.....the ball is in his court now....i told him what i'm feeling about the betrayal and anger, so he's probably going to tell me goodbye anyway. It's better that i do this now than later, huh? Meh....it's his loss......i'll live! excuse me for my basic feelings on this reply. i think you got setup. He must have envisioned this in the beginning. Now is making an excuse for making it happen based on punishment. A hard limit is just that something you will not do. Unless the Master has told you from the beginning that He wants to test your limits it is a no go. minnetar

slaveluci -> RE: hard limits as punishment (5/26/2007 7:18:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Yes you should be concerned. As the dominant you must maintain control over your master at all times. Make sure you punish him for his disrespect! While i enjoyed the sarcasm of this response[:)], i must say i disagree. To me, it absolutely IS disrespect. Before Master and i entered into O/our M/s relationship, He was well aware of the very few hard limits i have. W/we discussed them openly and at length and He made it very clear that they would be honored. i don't have a list as long as your arm of limits. i have a few that are there for good reason. Master agreed to them. If W/we then began O/our life together and, in due time, He decided that my hard limits were to no longer be acceptable to Him, then He has violated one of the basic tenets on which O/our relationship is based. By doing so, He would change part of the foundation upon which O/our relationship has been built. If that's not disrespectful and wrong, i don't know what is. i'm all for having my (other) limits pushed and going further and growing, but hard limits are just that - non negotiable. i don't top from the bottom, disrespect my Master, or try to be in control of things in O/our relationship. i do, however, have the reasonable expectation that He will honor what He agreed to before He ever became my Owner. And, because He is a Man of His word, He does so........slave luci

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