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RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/19/2005 8:57:48 AM   
SenorX


Posts: 142
Joined: 12/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessDustyGold

Yes, this has been discussed in a few other threads from different angles.
I see alot of people who use the term D/s as a quick abbrevieation for the entire lifestyle. So they might say something like "I am new to the BDSM scene, and I want to find a D/s relationship". There is no distinction being made and the person writing something like this usually is not understanding that there is a difference. Or that it is much more than just the play.
D/s is the dynamic of the relationship,. and BDSM is the play activites that We normally incorporate as part of that D/s relationship. I see too many people just use the term D/s to mean all of it.
That doesn't work for Me.
I, too, have always understood and was taught the acronym to mean Bondage/Discipline - Domination/submission - Sado (Sadism)/Masochism.


Very well stated! I am exceedingly Dom in most everything I do. I have an excellent D/s relationship with My bride. Yes, we play in BDSM some.

A Master of D/s? There are alot of people who feel I am, and I would strongly tend to agree, since I am extremely adept at Dominating many situations... buying and selling ( I bought My bride's new car listing for $17,905 for $12,000 and then got the rebates, to boot, I just Dominated and controlled the entire process of contracting for a second home, getting My price and My terms from the Seller, the Realtor, and the Mortgage company {I pissed off one mortgage broker, but he didn't want to play well, so I dumped him and he got pissed, but that's business}}. Those are just a few of the many examples.

A Master of BDSM? I have mastery over some aspects and elements of BDSM play, but I would not consider Myself a BDSM Master overall, per se.

De facto, the entire world is comprised of nothing but D/s if you look around. As everybody is Dominated and/or submissive in some sort of way to someone. However, not everybody is sexually open-minded (a/k/a 'sexually deviant'). Hard as it may be to believe, there are people out there whose idea of sexual relation is getting some sex once a month, if that much! EGADS! At least I have callouses on My left hand to prove I have daily sex (LMAO)... (I just had to throw in some corn since sometimes these things get soooo damn serious).

I am damn good with role play, handcuffs, ropes, with floggers, crops and whips, and with a whole lot of other areas of BDSM, including peanut butter and chandeliers. I have expert knowledge of knife and sword play, moxibustion, accupressure, and even accupuncture. However, I have never used moxibustion, accupuncture, knives, nor needles of any kind in BDSM play.

Point is that I am extremely well adept at D/s. But I don't use D/s and BDSM interchangeably. Most of the other old-timers in D/s and BDSM would most likely agree with Me on this.

X

(in reply to GoddessDustyGold)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/19/2005 9:21:27 AM   
EmeraldSlave2


Posts: 3645
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SenorX
De facto, the entire world is comprised of nothing but D/s if you look around. As everybody is Dominated and/or submissive in some sort of way to someone.

Everyone may be in some energy transfer and will at some point be in a dominant position and a submissive position to someone or some situation, that is not what I consider "Ds" which is a very specific relationship BASED ON the authority transfer itself.

quote:


However, not everybody is sexually open-minded (a/k/a 'sexually deviant').

MANY people in Ds are very sexually closed minded too. Ds is about authority, not sex. You get kinksters with all sorts of hang ups about sex and sexuality all the time.

(in reply to SenorX)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/19/2005 10:52:07 AM   
SenorX


Posts: 142
Joined: 12/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2


Ds is about authority, not sex.



Well, something agreed on.

X

(in reply to EmeraldSlave2)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/19/2005 2:38:03 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline 		Sate - tr.v. sat·ed, sat·ing, sates
To satisfy (an appetite) fully.
To satisfy to excess

sated -
adj : fed beyond capacity or desire [syn: gorged, surfeited]

satiated
adj : supplied (especially fed) to satisfaction [syn: satiate] [ant: insatiate]

*GRINNING*

I know exactly what I meant...

Peace and Love

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to SenorX)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/19/2005 3:46:42 PM   
SweetBloodberry


Posts: 7
Joined: 5/17/2005
Status: offline 		It's very reassuring to see a thread like this when so many people use BDSM and D/s interchangably. Being totally inexperienced but interested in D/s (as it has been defined here), I was starting to get a little wary that being in that sort of relationship would invariably mean practicing BDSM as well. My tastes in BDSM are mostly mild so far, and the idea of being in a D/s relationship and forced to do the hardcore stuff chills me. Some of it sounds like I just canNOT do it (i.e.: I have asthma, so breath control, suspension and other activities that limit breathing would be a real danger to me). Some of it just sounds scary and/or disturbing (like fire play and wax play), and I respect the people who have the guts to enjoy it safely, but I probably wouldn't do it myself. And some just turns me off (anything involving excrement, mostly). So hearing that D/s does not necessarily mean strictly a BDSM relationship is very reassuring.

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/19/2005 5:30:34 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I see and hear so many people use the terms D/s and BDSM synonymously as if they are one and the same. Are they? Can one co-exist without the other, or can one really even totally exist without the other?


Domination/submission is a dynamic

Sadomasochism
Bondage
Discipline
Fetishism
Humiliation
Worship
... Those are more action based.

I can be the bottom in an S&M scene, I can be tied up, I can even be called a whore but that doesn't change the fact that deep down, I don't give up control, I do not transfer authority, I do not give up my power, I do not submit to another though I may permit myself to experience a certain amount of vulnerability. I remain Dominant, even when interacting with another Dominant.

In a way, the whole BDSM acronymn doesn't make sense. It is an umbrella term for "different" sexual behaviour that plays on power dynamics.

Anyhow, that is the way I see it.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to SenorX)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/19/2005 7:37:56 PM   
SenorX


Posts: 142
Joined: 12/23/2004
Status: offline 		but did anyone else?

GRINS

X

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/19/2005 7:43:58 PM   
SenorX


Posts: 142
Joined: 12/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

I see and hear so many people use the terms D/s and BDSM synonymously as if they are one and the same. Are they? Can one co-exist without the other, or can one really even totally exist without the other?


Domination/submission is a dynamic

Sadomasochism
Bondage
Discipline
Fetishism
Humiliation
Worship
... Those are more action based.

I can be the bottom in an S&M scene, I can be tied up, I can even be called a whore but that doesn't change the fact that deep down, I don't give up control, I do not transfer authority, I do not give up my power, I do not submit to another though I may permit myself to experience a certain amount of vulnerability. I remain Dominant, even when interacting with another Dominant.

In a way, the whole BDSM acronymn doesn't make sense. It is an umbrella term for "different" sexual behaviour that plays on power dynamics.

Anyhow, that is the way I see it.

- LA


Very well stated!

BDSM is exactly that, the umbrella term for 'deviant' sexual behavior and D/s is an independent factor, although just like jelly, it can be added in with BDSM (peanut butter) however, the jelly is not part of the peanut butter and the peanut butter is not part of jelly. They just sometimes go together well, though peanut butter sandwiches are good by themselves, too, just like jelly by itself on bread (or toast).

X

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/20/2005 12:55:42 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		My own view is that no, domination and submission (D/s) are not the same as fetish play forms (BDSM), and the two can exist independantly of each other. Since there seems to be some disagreement about terminology (again...) I'll explain my own concepts and definitions behind how I use the terms.

BDSM in my personal lexicon refers to various forms of kinky fetish forms common to this lifestyle. The term, to my memory, evolved from the joining of two acronyms... B&D for Bondage and Discipline and S&M which was short for SadoMasochism. If you you take a look at older publications (fiction, movies, etc.) from the 60s and 70s it is more common to see the term S&M used in cases where we would commonly use BDSM now. B&D seems to have become more popular later and eventually they were strung together as the single acronym we know today, BDSM. Given that etymology, it seems clear originally the acronym was used to refer to the various forms of fetishes. The addition of dominantion and submission to the meaning is a recent addition I've only seen in the last 5 years. When I use BDSM, I am referring to fetish play in its various forms.

Fetish play (BDSM) does not necessarily involve either submission or domination, though it may involve Tops and Bottoms. Tops and Bottoms are temporary roles, rather like roles in a play, for the purpose of a scene (its no coincidence the parallels to a theatrical play, many scenes can be quite theatrical). What is always involved is the use of various fetishes, such as bondage, the use of pain, etc. Sex is also a common element, but not always present. A BDSM scene can include genuine domination and submission, but it isn't necessary. Nor is it necessary for those enacting a BDSM scene to be living a D/s lifestyle or be anymore involved in this lifestyle beyond a weekend player.

D/s (domination and submission), and also M/s (Master and slave) are seperate things whose basis is not the fetishes, but the power exchange dynamic (power exchange being the common term used to describe the exchange or transfer of authority, control, etc. as various forms of power). Understanding this difference in basis is key to understanding why the two issues are independant of one another. D/s and M/s often make use of BDSM as an expression of the dynamic, where comes the confusion regarding their connection to BDSM. But whereas BDSM involves the uses and enjoyment of fetishes as the goal, D/s uses BDSM as a tool to achieve its own goals of expressing dominance and submission. The goals and the intent differ. It is possible to have a D/s or M/s relationship without the use of BDSM, and although rare, it does occur.

So yes, the two are seperate issues and can exist independantly of each other. However, it is also very common for them to exist complimentary to each other.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to SenorX)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/20/2005 4:53:37 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SenorX


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

I see and hear so many people use the terms D/s and BDSM synonymously as if they are one and the same. Are they? Can one co-exist without the other, or can one really even totally exist without the other?


Domination/submission is a dynamic

Sadomasochism
Bondage
Discipline
Fetishism
Humiliation
Worship
... Those are more action based.

I can be the bottom in an S&M scene, I can be tied up, I can even be called a whore but that doesn't change the fact that deep down, I don't give up control, I do not transfer authority, I do not give up my power, I do not submit to another though I may permit myself to experience a certain amount of vulnerability. I remain Dominant, even when interacting with another Dominant.

In a way, the whole BDSM acronymn doesn't make sense. It is an umbrella term for "different" sexual behaviour that plays on power dynamics.

Anyhow, that is the way I see it.

- LA


Very well stated!

BDSM is exactly that, the umbrella term for 'deviant' sexual behavior and D/s is an independent factor, although just like jelly, it can be added in with BDSM (peanut butter) however, the jelly is not part of the peanut butter and the peanut butter is not part of jelly. They just sometimes go together well, though peanut butter sandwiches are good by themselves, too, just like jelly by itself on bread (or toast).

X



Why thank you. I think Padriag extended on this nicely as well.

And I love your peanut butter & jelly analogy, though I prefer my pb with raspberry jam! You excluded my snack! How dare you ;)

- LA


_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to SenorX)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/20/2005 10:43:02 AM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline
lol... if they didn't - they can look it up...!



Peace and Love

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to SenorX)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/21/2005 4:02:17 PM   
SenorX


Posts: 142
Joined: 12/23/2004
Status: offline 		well Angelica, at least pb and raspberry is much better sounding than pb and pickles (yuk).

And, I guess, you could imagine that since everything means whatever anyone wants so long as you're in here, you could imagine that jelly can mean raspberry jam. LOL... sometimes things get too serious, so I had to expound on your jovial comment and keep things going lightly :)

Yes, Padriag wrote very eloquently on the topic and I appreciate his comments.

In fact, I appreciate Yya'lls comments herein. Even those by the folks who are wrong (now I'll really start getting some comments flying in here. ) {starts looking at his watch to see how long before someone takes My latter comment and gets upset about it and has to write (lol)}


Oh oh, I may get reported to the BDSM police.
Anyway,

Best Regards,

X

< Message edited by SenorX -- 5/21/2005 4:03:05 PM >

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/21/2005 4:21:19 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SenorX
well Angelica, at least pb and raspberry is much better sounding than pb and pickles (yuk).


And not as bad looking as Angelica. ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SenorX
And, I guess, you could imagine that since everything means whatever anyone wants so long as you're in here, you could imagine that jelly can mean raspberry jam. LOL... sometimes things get too serious, so I had to expound on your jovial comment and keep things going lightly :)


By all means! We have the choice of humour or giving everyone an enema. The former is less messy.

- LA


_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to SenorX)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/21/2005 4:24:34 PM   
SenorX


Posts: 142
Joined: 12/23/2004
Status: offline 		LOL

X

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/21/2005 7:10:03 PM   
Sheba


Posts: 4
Joined: 4/30/2004
From: Minnesota
Status: offline 		I believe one can exist without the other. There seems to be lots of couples who "play" bdsm scenes in which one is dominant and one is submissive and the dominant ties and plays with the submissive...ect. Then there is at least one relationship i know between a person who is naturally submissive with one who is naturally extremely dominant and controlling, but there really isnt any per say tying up....whipping...or bdsm type scenes between the two...the sex is normal. Its simply a TPE relationship in which the submissive has given over control to the dominant.

(in reply to SenorX)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/22/2005 9:58:31 AM   
SenorX


Posts: 142
Joined: 12/23/2004
Status: offline 		very well written, sheba.

In essence, it is wonderful to have the active participation herein whereby we have, not only the opportunity to view other people's thoughts and opinions, but also analyze their posts to see how they justify their reaching their conclusions.

In your writing, you state your opinion well and then you expound to show how you have reached your conclusion through rationale and logic.

Thanks for your post.

X

(in reply to Sheba)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/27/2005 8:05:49 PM   
masterforyorlove


Posts: 18
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		I've always been a D and was always attracted to and looking for a woman who considered herself s. Clear defination of roles is always most important to me when I have a sub. Still, past scenes have included floggin and nipple torture because those were some other things that got my sub off as well as cuffs and gags and spreader bars did. Still, we always did look at the relationship as her submitting to my control.

So the lines sometimes do cross but the focus remains the same. As long as she is smiling at the end and purring in my arms as I assure her that she will always be safe with me, the ending was always a happy one.

(in reply to SenorX)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/28/2005 11:35:35 AM   
k8


Posts: 10
Joined: 12/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SenorX
I see and hear so many people use the terms D/s and BDSM synonymously as if they are one and the same. Are they? Can one co-exist without the other, or can one really even totally exist without the other?


I think they can coexist without the other. Nowadays, my interest is in specific types of D/s. I have little interest in S&M or bondage, and zero interest in slavery.

(in reply to SenorX)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/28/2005 12:52:32 PM   
fourpeas


Posts: 243
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline 		I am glad to see this discussion too. I was a bit worried to talk about this as a total newbie because it is definitely the D/s that pulls my strings and not the S&M. That's just who I am. Words are interesting, something that my Dom and I talk about A LOT, words, their power, their meaning, etc... it is also definitely refreshing to be able to *separate* out all the meanings involved and not just lump them together. Thank you to everyone for their wonderful and insightful responses. I enjoy conversations like this one a lot.

(in reply to k8)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Is D/s Inherently a part of BDSM, Vice Versa, and C... - 5/31/2005 9:47:17 AM   
SenorX


Posts: 142
Joined: 12/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fourpeas

I am glad to see this discussion too. I was a bit worried to talk about this as a total newbie because it is definitely the D/s that pulls my strings and not the S&M. That's just who I am. Words are interesting, something that my Dom and I talk about A LOT, words, their power, their meaning, etc... it is also definitely refreshing to be able to *separate* out all the meanings involved and not just lump them together. Thank you to everyone for their wonderful and insightful responses. I enjoy conversations like this one a lot.


And this is exactly why I posted this thread. It appears that there are plenty of others herein who feel the same as do you. In fact, there are and have been numerous other threads that have been started by posing questions in order to get some of the people in here to think some. A very good discussion that brings up similar points is the one entitled "Lifestyle words, terms, phrases & acronyms", started up by ScooterTrash. It is an interesting thread, whereby some of those very same people who preach tolerance are showing their intolerance by being intolerant to those definitions that have been accepted within the realms of the real world D/s Lifestyle for decades and even scores (according to primary experience) and even centuries (no primary experience there from Me, but from secondary or tertiary experience).

In fact, by looking at the similar topics, you will be able to pretty well notice those exhibiting patterns of self-contradiction, especially among those vociferously trying to negate the fact that standards do and have for centuries, de facto, existed, thereby solidifying and confirming that which you stated herein as well as that which k8 has so eloquently stated in the thread "Submission and Slavery".

If words and labels can mean anything to anyone, then, in re some of the folks that I have noticed herein, BDSM could very well be evidentiarily defined as Bimbos, Dummies, Stupids, Morons rather than Bondage, Disicpline, Sadism, Masochism. However, if you see the acronym BDSM, it is automatically accepted by vanilla, D/s and BDSM groups globally as Bondage, Discipline, Sadism, Masochism rather than Bimbos, Dummies, Stupids, Morons. Touché and kudos.

X

(in reply to fourpeas)
Profile   Post #: 40
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