RE: A**Question for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops**

RE: A**Question for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops** (Full Version)

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minnetar -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/26/2007 11:31:18 PM)
i do not understand why you have taken this opportunity to attack me when i illicited my opinion but thanks. i belong to a site where software is discussed and they have said the new vista has spyware. i don't care to divulge the site. i will believe on people who i have learned to trust. minnetar

gothicdiva -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/26/2007 11:48:09 PM)
Thanks to everyone for all the info. I am still in the browsing stage and probably won't make a decision for a few months, at least. Hopefully, if I go with Vista, and most likely I will, I won't have any problems with my software. I had a moderately priced HP Pavillion before that died after only two years. I spent $500 trying to have it fixed. I bought a used Compaq after than and my HP printer software will not work. I have reinstalled it twice. It's very inconvenient to not have access to a printer/scanner/fax. I don't want to have that problem with a new computer for sure. I've looked around online at Acer, Toshiba and some others. I know that Walmart is going to be carrying DELL computers soon, so I will look at them as well. I am going to review and save all this info. to help me make my decision. And boys, try to "play nice" or I may have to make you stand in the corner....wink M. Diva

SirKenin -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/26/2007 11:55:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: minnetar i do not understand why you have taken this opportunity to attack me when i illicited my opinion but thanks. i belong to a site where software is discussed and they have said the new vista has spyware. i don't care to divulge the site. i will believe on people who i have learned to trust. minnetar Precisely. Your OPINION. Do not lose sight of that.. And do not try to present your "opinion" as fact.. And maybe I will be nicer next time. I have to ask this. Why the fuck do you take EVERYTHING as a personal attack? Is that your heart? Or your meds?

Real0ne -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/27/2007 12:07:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin And in fact I myself am a Microsoft Partner, Microsoft OEM system builder and Microsoft beta tester. I also haunt Microsoft forums, attend Microsoft conferences.. I have two to go to in the next two weeks.. and subscribe to numerous Microsoft tech publications)... quote: ORIGINAL: minnetar i do not understand why you have taken this opportunity to attack me when i illicited my opinion but thanks. i belong to a site where software is discussed and they have said the new vista has spyware. i don't care to divulge the site. i will believe on people who i have learned to trust. minnetar Min with those credentials thats like asking the government to investigate 911! LOL Its common knowledge ms cant wipe their ass until Sp2. Pump it up kenny!

SirKenin -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/27/2007 12:17:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Its common knowledge ms cant wipe their ass until Sp2. Be careful what you say.. The resident martyr will find a way to place a spin on it to paint herself to be the victim. Anyways, what you said does not in any way substantiate the bullshit claim that Vista is full of spyware. Staying on track would be a great idea... I know it is hard for you... as you have shown us so many times in the past.. But try. If you could just do that that would be great. Funny.. She is so busy pointing the fingers and making herself out to be so damn hard done by she forgot all about providing any evidence for her horseshit claims.. And she even protects this so-called software forum like it is some kind of trade secret. Usually if someone can defend your position you make certain to use that to your advantage. I suspect that quite the opposite is true.. She is probably on there so busy telling everyone how hard done by she is, taking everything as a personal attack and using her health as a shield she does not take the time to realize that opinions are like assholes.. everyone has one.. And sorting out the crap from the fact. I smell shit.

minnetar -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/27/2007 12:22:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Its common knowledge ms cant wipe their ass until Sp2. Be careful what you say.. The resident martyr will find a way to place a spin on it to paint herself to be the victim. Anyways, what you said does not in any way substantiate the bullshit claim that Vista is full of spyware. Staying on track would be a great idea... I know it is hard for you... as you have shown us so many times in the past.. But try. If you could just do that that would be great. Funny.. She is so busy pointing the fingers and making herself out to be so damn hard done by she forgot all about providing any evidence for her horseshit claims.. And she even protects this so-called software forum like it is some kind of trade secret. Usually if someone can defend your position you make certain to use that to your advantage. I suspect that quite the opposite is true.. She is probably on there so busy telling everyone how hard done by she is, taking everything as a personal attack and using her health as a shield she does not take the time to realize that opinions are like assholes.. everyone has one.. And sorting out the crap from the fact. I smell shit. fine check out shareordie. Learn from some pros on their thoughts and then attack me. i try to discuss things without attacks and guess what - yall don't so leave me the fugg out of it - there are tons of sites who have thoughtful discussions on subjects where they do not berate another unlike you minnetar

DarkDreams123 -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/27/2007 12:59:01 AM)
Hi gothicdiva, You need to decide on what are your most important needs. First, any modern laptop should be able to play DVDs, so that should not be a problem. However, how important is weight to you? If you want lightweight, then you will want a smaller screen (14" - 15") and smaller battery. If weight is not an issue, then you might want a 17" screen and a larger battery. Even if you get a smaller screen, you might want to get one that is wider, instead of the standard TV style square-shaped model. This will make movies that are in the 16:9 format more attractive. (But just how important are playing movies?) The next factor you should decide on is battery life. If you want greater battery life, you need to either go with a larger battery (more weight) or a smaller screen. Lastly, the single item that affects computer performance most is RAM. The more the better. Even CPU speed (within limits, of course) is not as much an issue as RAM. 1GB should be considered minimum. You might want to consider 2GB, since you say that you might be doing web design (I assume that you might be editing graphics, etc.). After RAM, buy as much CPU performance as you can afford. The other factor that will greatly affect computer performance is the access speed of your hard drive. In order to reduce power consumption, many laptop makers use slower spinning hard drives (4200 RPM or 5400RPM). This makes accessing the hard drive take longer. Windows XP and Vista use the hard drive as an extension of RAM, so you will notice that the more you demand of your laptop the busier your hard drive becomes. Consider a hard drive running at 7200RPM. The downside of this kind of hard drive is heat generation and power consumption. As to your question about Vista vs. Windows XP. I'm rather conservative about moving to Vista at this time. Vista utilizes new methods of trying to protect your computer from viruses, malware and software attacks (which is good) that can interfere with existing software that hasn't been written specifically for Vista. Some software won't run, or the protection measures (User Account Control) will pester you to death. I think that Windows XP, with an anti-virus client, firewall and anti-malware software is sufficient protection for most people. If you want to look for a good buy, try the major hardware vendors "reconditioned" models. Dell has a web site for reconditioned equipment as does Gateway, etc. Good luck, -DarkDreams

Real0ne -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/27/2007 1:10:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne Its common knowledge ms cant wipe their ass until Sp2. Be careful what you say.. The resident martyr will find a way to place a spin on it to paint herself to be the victim. Anyways, what you said does not in any way substantiate the bullshit claim that Vista is full of spyware. Staying on track would be a great idea... I know it is hard for you... as you have shown us so many times in the past.. But try. If you could just do that that would be great. Funny.. She is so busy pointing the fingers and making herself out to be so damn hard done by she forgot all about providing any evidence for her horseshit claims.. And she even protects this so-called software forum like it is some kind of trade secret. Usually if someone can defend your position you make certain to use that to your advantage. I suspect that quite the opposite is true.. She is probably on there so busy telling everyone how hard done by she is, taking everything as a personal attack and using her health as a shield she does not take the time to realize that opinions are like assholes.. everyone has one.. And sorting out the crap from the fact. I smell shit. Yeh sure, just like your unsubstantiated claims about 911 LOL eerrrr unless you call 15000 "bullshits" substantiation. Doesnt change what i said. It aint even worth thinking about till at least sp2. You know microsofts nickname dont you? "reboot" LMAO So pump it up man!

Sicarius -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/27/2007 1:55:57 AM)
gothicdiva: I'll admit first that I didn't scower every single word of the thread (especially after it broke out into screaming over Vista and Macs), so I apologize if this question has already been answered ... why are you looking at buying a laptop? There are plenty of reasons that are perfectly valid, but all I've seen so far is your referencing printing from home and managing a website from home. Are you actively traveling in a situation that requires you to have a laptop? If not, I strongly suggest that you go the desktop route. They are infinitely more scalable, have a lower total cost of ownership, and you get vastly more bang for your buck in terms of parts and technology. In terms of Microsoft's new Vista OS -- I ran the beta on a single box and deleted it a few weeks later because I found that the thing ran like garbage. I don't care about fancy bells and whistles as the main issue in my life is PC stability and security rather than gimmicks. As a general rule of thumb, whenever Microsoft decides to make a "pretty" operating system, I get scared. Just take a look at ME and Media Center from the not too distant history. In my opinion, the best OS that they have ever made is Windows 2000 Professional. To this day I maintain a ten-client LAN running primarily 2K Pro boxes and on most of them, I've never experienced a single system crash. Windows XP Professional is also a reasonable solution, but avoid anything with a "Home" tag on it. You can usually pick up copies of XP Professional for around $80.00 if you look in the right places. As far as the modern incarnation of Vista ... I'm not going to state any personal opinions, but the operating system has a terrible standing reputation on the market right now. The vast majority of commentary that I have seen on the OS suggests that it's basically plague-ridden when it comes to security features that have been built into it pertaining to the use of unnecessary multimedia applications ... especially surrounding HD DVD and Blu-Ray playback. There are enormous compatability issues with Vista from a number of software and hardware manufacturers' products. Despite being the only OS to support DirectX 10, most of the gaming community is instead remaining committed to Windows XP / DirectX 9.0c-compliant systems because they don't trust Vista either and don't appreciate Microsoft's marketing ploy to force people to upgrade for prettier graphics. My personal opinion is that if you're going to go with Vista, wait until after SP1 is released to address most of the near-crippling problems it's currently facing. -Sicarius

farglebargle -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/27/2007 2:12:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Nope. Vista is Microsoft's software not yours. It will always report your usage and browsing habits to Microsoft. Remember, the purpose of Microsoft software is to make Microsoft money. If it's usable by you, that's an afterthought. No. That is not true. Tell your "alien/conspiracy" buddies they need to back away from the crack. It does not report any data about you by default. The only thing it does do is periodically report to the activation center to ensure that you are using a legitimate product. Of course that will not be a problem if you are not a thief. http://download.microsoft.com/documents/useterms/Windows%20Vista_Home%20Basic_English_2cd69850-7680-4987-8b1e-59a3d405c074.pdf Top of Page 3. "(b) During a validation check the software will send information about the software and the device to Microsoft." Bottom of Page 8. "The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights.

farglebargle -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/27/2007 2:14:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: minnetar fargle - there are tons of software sites who hate vista because this new operating system has too many things which monitor what software you have installed and so forth. minnetar I just rely on a clear reading of Microsoft's license for Vista. It reports information about your computer, you don't own Vista, and MSFT reserves the right to do anything they haven't EXPRESSLY granted you. People actually PAY for this kind of shit? Amazing, when you can get better, without the Nazi-style licenses.

m0rgan -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/27/2007 2:21:50 AM)
a link to lots of links, o/s specific, and a couple are out of date, but click on your o/s for relevant help; http://www.kayodeok.btinternet.co.uk/index.htm put the home page in your bookmarks. read this site for kosher vista info and tips here, as in most instances, those that imply it is rubbish, don't have a clue how to set it up, and never read an instruction book in their life; http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/#windows pay particular attention to setting yourself up as the administrator, or else you will be referred to the administrator every time you want to change something!!

DarkDreams123 -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/27/2007 2:54:08 AM)
Hi farglebargle, I think you are misreading the MS license. quote: "(b) During a validation check the software will send information about the software and the device to Microsoft." This means that the OS is going to report information about itself and about the device on which it is installed. This information has to do with the kind of CPU, amount of RAM and size of HD (a unique "fingerprint" is computed from this data). MS states the reason for this is to prevent you from installing multiple copies of the OS on other machines. This technology is not new and is present in XP as well. quote: "The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. This is stating that MS reserves the rights to the OS, not to your computer or anything else you may have installed on your PC. I have no great fondness for MS. But they are not doing anything with their licensing practices that is any different from any other software vendor, such as Adobe, AutoDesk, etc. If you want to go after MS, how about going after something that is more substantial, like "kowtowing" to the MPAA regarding DVD-HD and Blu-Ray protection measures. -DarkDreams

Sicarius -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/27/2007 7:33:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkDreams123 If you want to go after MS, how about going after something that is more substantial, like "kowtowing" to the MPAA regarding DVD-HD and Blu-Ray protection measures. That's the biggest one that gets me. I don't understand why the hell Microsoft bowed to their demands and injected all of this unnecessary garbage into the OS. As far as sales figures go, Blu-Ray and HD aren't looking so hot right now and I figured they would be eager to jump at any sort of "shot" they could get at putting compliant hardware in front of more end users. Microsoft really dropped the ball in not using that publicity / accessibility as leverage to reject the steep encoding protection measures. -Sicarius

SirKenin -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/27/2007 7:50:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Nope. Vista is Microsoft's software not yours. It will always report your usage and browsing habits to Microsoft. Remember, the purpose of Microsoft software is to make Microsoft money. If it's usable by you, that's an afterthought. No. That is not true. Tell your "alien/conspiracy" buddies they need to back away from the crack. It does not report any data about you by default. The only thing it does do is periodically report to the activation center to ensure that you are using a legitimate product. Of course that will not be a problem if you are not a thief. http://download.microsoft.com/documents/useterms/Windows%20Vista_Home%20Basic_English_2cd69850-7680-4987-8b1e-59a3d405c074.pdf Top of Page 3. "(b) During a validation check the software will send information about the software and the device to Microsoft." Bottom of Page 8. "The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. All software is licensed, not sold bonehead. Also, the only information about the software sent is the license key.. And version. As has been said.. Those that bash Vista most often do not have the first clue what they are talking about or what they are doing. Like those that say MP3's downloaded off the internet will not play in Media Player.. bullshit.. lol. Vista degrades video quality when it is having troubles performing, thus hospitals can not use Vista in their imaging equipment (yes, someone actually said that. I laughed my ass off).. Again, more bullshit. Vista is full of spyware. Bullshit. Vista reports back on all the software you have installed. Bullshit. I wonder if any of these geniuses are aware that Microsoft is being threatened with a lawsuit because they refused to incorporate certain copy protection features in their operating system that would prevent playback of copyrighted digital media? Hmm. Probably not from the sounds of it.

farglebargle -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/27/2007 8:10:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkDreams123 Hi farglebargle, I think you are misreading the MS license. quote: "(b) During a validation check the software will send information about the software and the device to Microsoft." This means that the OS is going to report information about itself and about the device on which it is installed. CORRECT. The "DEVICE" is Your Computer. It doesn't EXPRESSLY LIMIT what information about that "DEVICE" is collected or transmitted does it? So it's PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE UNDER THIS LICENSE to copy your registry and caches over to MSFT in their entirety for WHATEVER PURPOSES THEY CARE FOR. quote: This information has to do with the kind of CPU, amount of RAM and size of HD (a unique "fingerprint" is computed from this data). If you had written "SOME OF THIS INFORMATION MAY HAVE TO WITH", then you would have been correct, but I see NO SUCH LIMIT in the License. Do you? WHERE IS IT? quote: MS states the reason for this is to prevent you from installing multiple copies of the OS on other machines. This technology is not new and is present in XP as well. They can SAY whatever they want. THE LICENSE SAYS DIFFERENTLY, AND IT IS WHAT IS LEGALLY BINDING. quote: quote: "The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. This is stating that MS reserves the rights to the OS, not to your computer or anything else you may have installed on your PC. Does it say "... to the software"? No. Then why would you claim that Microsoft limits the rights reserved to the software? And that's a pointless claim for you to make, because the can simply reserve the right to change what the DECIDE is ok for them to collect. quote: I have no great fondness for MS. It's ENGLISH. I can understand their license. Maybe some people need to the Supreme Court to tell them it says. I dunno. quote: But they are not doing anything with their licensing practices that is any different from any other software vendor, such as Adobe, AutoDesk, etc. We can discuss why their licensing sucks in a different thread. quote: If you want to go after MS, how about going after something that is more substantial, like "kowtowing" to the MPAA regarding DVD-HD and Blu-Ray protection measures. Because the 2 parts of their license ENABLE THEM to kowtow to the MPAA. If they didn't reserve every right not expressly delegated to you in the license, then maybe the license would be fair, eh?

SirKenin -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/27/2007 8:35:42 AM)
Wow. That is all I can say. Wow.. Now I understand how bullshit 9/11 and alien theories can stand the test of time.. Ignorance. I am sitting here dumbfounded.. Absolutely dumbfounded.. How someone can misinterpret basic information.. and then make a huge conspiracy out of it? Astounding. Starting with XP, Microsoft introduced an initiative called the WGA. Windows Genuine Advantage tool. It is an automated update from the Microsoft update site. What it does is scan the Microsoft software installed on your computer to ensure that it is genuine. If it is not, a message will pop up on your screen, and one will remain in your system tray, advising you that you have pirated software on your computer and it will prevent you from doing any updates and will even limit the functionality of the software. This is to protect Microsoft's intellectual property from THEFT. And, of course, you can remove the WGA component any time you like and block future downloads of it.. Just do not expect Microsoft to support STOLEN FUCKING PROPERTY. My goodness. This really is not rocket science. How the hell is this a problem? If you do not steal what does not belong to you, which is ILLEGAL, then it is not an issue, is it. The activation sequence is precisely as DarkDreams has presented. To the letter. http://www.windows-vista-update.com/Windows_Vista_Activation.html The Windows Vista license is standard fare, and has been for as far back as I remember. Every software company in existence, that I know of, grants use, not ownership, for copyright and reverse engineering reasons. If someone can show me a license to the contrary I would be interested to see it. If anyone (besides farglebargle, because he will argue that you said the sky is green, even if you very clearly said it was blue) needs the actual tech documents from Microsoft, let me know. The moral of the story, as evidenced from other threads as well, is never believe a word that conspiracy theorists say. They take one or two ideas, twist them out of shape to the point of absurdity, and then present it as fact.. All due to complete ignorance.

farglebargle -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/27/2007 8:39:37 AM)
So, you claim either: A) Some random webpage takes precedence over the LICENSE? or B) The license does NOT CONTAIN THE TEXT I HAVE CITED VERBATIM?

BucksMaster -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/27/2007 9:02:47 AM)
A very interesting series of replies to this question, but in fact how many of them have actually worked with the product. Vista in its current form is still very buggy with most manufactures lagging behind when it comes to drivers. New equipment will not suffer from the driver issue to such a large degree but there will be some issues. Remember, upgrading to Vista at this stage has pitfalls as it is still largely a Beta product that is still undergoing final refinement. If you want real stability you had best wait for the replease of SP1 (best guess August this year). It is a good product and you will be surprised by the refinements but right now, unless you are in a rush, then hold back. As with all MS products bigger is better, depending on the version you are looking to purchase you will want at least 2GB of RAM with a Dual Core 2 processor. Buy bigger if you can. One last point here, I am an MCSE and I am also certified in Vista so I do speak with some knowledge.

SirKenin -> RE: AQuestion for the Computer Gurus Re: Vista and New Laptops (5/27/2007 9:03:08 AM)
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/509c95b4-3071-7e49-888b-b0fc6ce05fd8.aspx http://blogs.technet.com/jamesone/archive/2007/04/09/vista-activation-update.aspx http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/activation_faq.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2006/oct06/10-04SoftwareProtection.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/buyorupgrade/activationfaq.mspx http://download.microsoft.com/download/c/2/9/c2935f83-1a10-4e4a-a137-c1db829637f5/10-03-06softwareprotectionwp.doc http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsVista/en/library/e35edd60-9784-491d-8c51-7affbb42df301033.mspx?mfr=true If anyone can find Farglebargle's marbles, I am sure he would like them back.

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