TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (Full Version)

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EmeraldSlave2 -> TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/18/2005 1:24:48 PM)

OK so most of the regs here already know how I feel about TPE but I figured it was a good time to spell it all out and get a lot of responses.

I think TPE is a false way of stating what actually occurs in M/s relationships.

TPE = Total Power Exchange

Total? Meaning what? All the power? All the possible power? All the desireable power? A slave still has the power to breath, to menstruate, to dream, and most doms don't like to constantly have to feed their slaves, dress their slaves, bathe their slaves and move them about like pots of plants. Giving someone total power seems inappropriately stated here.

Power? As noted above, we still HAVE a lot of power within ourselves. Not only to do the normal life functions, but to do HIGH functioning, high thinking, high processing, we carry out orders, we get trained, we have responsibilities and expectations upon us. This takes a LOT of personal power to enact effectively. I don't transfer power to the Owner, in fact in many ways I am MORE powerful than I was when I first became owned by him.

Exchange? Well you obviously aren't exchanging power for power according to this acronym, so there seems to be a missing word. Usually it's something like responsibility, or security or protection or some stereotypical dominant aspect.

So obviously, I think TPE is pretty flawed.

What do I use? Well, when I have to use a term, I use "Ultimate Authority Transfer."

Ultimate - this means the Owner can have as little or as much DIRECT control and management over me as he wants, because ultimately (at the end of the day/when it comes down to it) he's the final decision maker. If I do it, it's because he allows it, if I don't do it, it's because he doesn't. We don't have to worry about degrees, or portions, or times of day, or what power I may or may not have. It also means he can give me authority over some areas in a middle management sort of way, while he retains the ultimate veto. We only worry about that final line.

Authority - As I said, I am a pretty powerful person. But obviously the Owner does have something I do not in order for him to be able to make the rules. This is "authority." He has the ultimate authority over me. It's far more specific than a vague "power" and it shows how the direction of my life goes. He uses his authority to use me, to control me, to direct me, to manage me. And with his authority, I am delegated responsibilities.

Transfer - gone is the confusion of "exchange" and the Missing Piece. We have only one term here, authority, which is transferred. Very clear and very clean. He has ultimate authority, I do not.

So, out with TPE, in with UAT. Simpler, more accurate, and true to life.



SenorX -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/18/2005 1:46:33 PM)

rescinded My comment herein.



LadyAngelika -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/18/2005 3:25:41 PM)

quote:

So, out with TPE, in with UAT. Simpler, more accurate, and true to life.


I actually quite like your argument in regards to a M/s relationship. I makes a lot more sense.

In my case, I embark more on Top/bottom that blends in domination, discipline, bondage and S&M. In my case, I simply use Power Exchange. I drop the total part for the reasons you stated in your post. It is actually not my desire to have total power.

When I think of power exchange, I am reminded of something LadyBeckett once told me. She said that from her perspective, power exchange was when the bottom surrendered their power to the top. The top added it to her (or his) power and combined it was amazing (which is a good argument for a powerful submissive!). Through the act of topping, the top feeds back the power to the bottom.

My LadyB has a very motherly-teacher approach to wiitwd and mine is less so, but I do understand her perspective. Maybe in my case it's Power Transfer? I know it has to do with more then simply authority for me. I actually don't get off on having authority so much as the power. Definitely something to think about...

- LA



junecleaver -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/18/2005 8:14:35 PM)

I don't think I've ever used the phrase TPE. Probably because it doesn't apply to a relationship I'd want.

You made a sound argument. Thanks for making me think. ;)



GentleLady -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/18/2005 10:18:06 PM)

You have made a good argument there EmeraldSlave2. I have struggled unsuccessfully before trying to explain what TPE was and now I have a better idea as to why. I think 'responsibility' may be a more accurate term then 'authority' but I am going to have to do some thinking about this.

Gentle Lady



Focus50 -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/19/2005 4:47:44 AM)

TPE is farcical when you break it down into individual words then disect them in what ever manner suits you. Me, I like TPE, but not T,P,E. Seems everyone has their own definition of what TPE means so I'll throw mine in....

First off it's never literally 24/7 TPE but it does mean to me that it can be invoked *anytime* and at any level I think necessary.

I think Power is an appropriate description of what enables a D/s relationship. To me, both Dom and sub have a unique and equal but opposite "power" and that power is that they're respectively dominant and submissive. No vanilla female can fulfill all my intimate needs so in that context, a fem/sub certainly does have power and desirability to me. And my Dom power is that I have what a sub needs more than any vanilla can offer her - hence our desirability to each other equates to equal power.

"Exchanging" that power is where a D/s dynamic is created. Since D/s is predominantly about control, it's only control that's unequal, NOT power.... "Exchange" may not be the best description but I think it better than "transfer" as the sub never loses or gives up her power of being submissive. Again, it's control that's taken or given up but "transferring" control doesn't work for me, either.

Just about everyone who's experienced a working D/s dynamic finds it highly addictive - to me, it is better than sex! That dynamic is the result of PE or of Dom and sub combining their unique sexuality traits for the mutual benefit of both. I can only have sex with a vanilla female - she has no sub power, which means she has nothing I want, which means we have nothing to exchange....

Focus50.



kisshou -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/19/2005 5:14:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
He has the ultimate authority over me.



He has the power of life or death over you , wether it be bound and naked with his knife to your throat or by his command only , this is the Power a Master has. The slave is thus rendered powerless. To live or to die, that is the ultimate.

Hence the term , Total Power Exchange



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/19/2005 5:17:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

He has the power of life or death over you , wether it be bound and naked with his knife to your throat or by his command only , this is the Power a Master has. The slave is thus rendered powerless. To live or to die, that is the ultimate.

Hence the term , Total Power Exchange

I have that power over myself still, and I have that power over him. When I cook him food, when I take out his toys, when I drive someplace- I COULD kill him at any moment, just as he COULD kill me at any moment.

I COULD also kill myself at any moment.

I see your point as moot and just like any other power a human has.



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/19/2005 5:18:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GentleLady
I think 'responsibility' may be a more accurate term then 'authority' but I am going to have to do some thinking about this.

Gentle Lady[/font][/color]

Except that you both have much responsibility in the relationship- to eachother and to yourselves and to the relationship you form together.



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/19/2005 5:23:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50
First off it's never literally 24/7 TPE but it does mean to me that it can be invoked *anytime* and at any level I think necessary.

But UAT CAN and IS 24/7.

quote:


"Exchanging" that power is where a D/s dynamic is created. Since D/s is predominantly about control, it's only control that's unequal, NOT power.... "Exchange" may not be the best description but I think it better than "transfer" as the sub never loses or gives up her power of being submissive. Again, it's control that's taken or given up but "transferring" control doesn't work for me, either.

Well in *my* acronym, the sub never loses or gives up her power either, in fact that was one of my main points. She transfers authority OVER her power.

Given your explanation, in which each person has their unique symbiotic power- they do not exchange it either, they simply live it in tandem.

quote:

That dynamic is the result of PE or of Dom and sub combining their unique sexuality traits for the mutual benefit of both.

Hmm well I don't consider it a sexual trait, but that's not really relevent to this discussion.

quote:

I can only have sex with a vanilla female - she has no sub power, which means she has nothing I want, which means we have nothing to exchange....

Focus50
Well she's obviously got a willing hole you want to fuck.





dragonofjapan -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/19/2005 7:14:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2

TPE = Total Power Exchange

Total? Meaning what? All the power? All the possible power? All the desireable power? A slave still has the power to breath, to menstruate, to dream, and most doms don't like to constantly have to feed their slaves, dress their slaves, bathe their slaves and move them about like pots of plants. Giving someone total power seems inappropriately stated here.

Power? As noted above, we still HAVE a lot of power within ourselves. Not only to do the normal life functions, but to do HIGH functioning, high thinking, high processing, we carry out orders, we get trained, we have responsibilities and expectations upon us. This takes a LOT of personal power to enact effectively. I don't transfer power to the Owner, in fact in many ways I am MORE powerful than I was when I first became owned by him.

Exchange? Well you obviously aren't exchanging power for power according to this acronym, so there seems to be a missing word. Usually it's something like responsibility, or security or protection or some stereotypical dominant aspect.

So obviously, I think TPE is pretty flawed.

What do I use? Well, when I have to use a term, I use "Ultimate Authority Transfer."


How much FUN!!!

Transfer? am I getting off one bus onto another?

I put heat exchangers in solar containments. Now one hopes there is more heat in the containment than there is collness on the house interior system, but the power-energy-heat flow in both directions.

Total is idealized word. It is trying to say, like in the old marriage vows 'I forsake all others', what even my mom if she falls down?

You are getting a bit PC here is my impression.

So the wedding vows need to be some litany? forsaking most others, except in cases of emergency as described in paragraph 3?!?!

Authority?

So subs have no PULL? ah yes me big massa you lowly slave

this is of course why when subs put up a profile here NO ONE WRITES TO THEM!!!!

I see this much more like yin and yang. If you look carefully at this symbol you will see a large circle with two paisleys inside wihtin each paisley is the opposite color smaller circle but look more carefully and you see the paisleys are made from two circles spinning so quickly around one another the tails of their energy wrap around each other.

I think you could send Total Power Exchange into the government for reworking.

It will come back as a 273 word title filled with so many legal qualifications, you will be grabbing a baseball bat to enlighten the author.

Power Exchange

To our limited ability power exchange?

wow that sounds romantic



cellogrrlMK -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/19/2005 7:17:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
Well she's obviously got a willing hole you want to fuck.





ROTFLMAO!!! <wiping my eyes> Ah Emerald, you ARE direct, I gotta say that! LOLOL

Thanks for my first guffaw of the day!

cello



Faramir -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/19/2005 7:27:50 AM)

You're engaging in "debunking" - in this case taking vernacular meant to be shorthand for a concept, and subjecting it to a level of scrutiny appropriate for technical or formal English.

I could use the same debunking process to show how stupid any piece of poetry is, demolish anything metaphorical, or castigate anyone who uses slang, jargon or any colloquial English.

You might actually haves omething - you might have clarifaction to offer, further thought and articulation - but wtf is up with the angry debunking of langauge?

TPE is a useful acronym. If someone says "I'm a bedroom submissive," we might spend time and attention on exactly calrifying what that means, but it sure as hell puts me in the ballpark of where they are with two words. And if someone tells me they need TPE, while we might fruitfuly discuss the exact nuances of TPE, I also know quickly what ballpark they are in.

Hey, language isn't arbitrary, and trying to fight a one person battle against it is a going to be a frustrating experience.



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/19/2005 7:32:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dragonofjapan
You are getting a bit PC here is my impression.

I like to be precise in my language.

quote:


So subs have no PULL? ah yes me big massa you lowly slave

Influence is quite a different concept from authority.

For example, weekend before last I had a lot of things planned to do with friends on Saturday. On Friday, the Owner calls and says he wants me to do yard work. I let him know my plans (which I HAD already emailed to him, but sometimes he checks and sometimes he doesn't) and said that while I might be a bit disappointed to change plans on my friends, if he wanted me to come over and do yard work, I'd be more than happy to do it.

Well, we talked the next day and my Sunday plans had cleared up and the Owner decided I would come over on Sunday to do yard work, leaving me time with my friends on Saturday.

The Owner certainly took my feelings and desires into account, but ULTIMATELY, I obeyed his authority. He had the final say.

quote:


To our limited ability power exchange?

wow that sounds romantic


Well bdsm isn't always romantic :) I prefer precision and accuracy to flowery ideals and misconceptions. Helps avoid disappointment.



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/19/2005 7:33:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

You're engaging in "debunking" - in this case taking vernacular meant to be shorthand for a concept, and subjecting it to a level of scrutiny appropriate for technical or formal English.

I'm not JUST doing that- the second half of my post was devoted to presenting a new, what I consider far better and accurate, term to use.



kisshou -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/19/2005 8:06:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2


quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

He has the power of life or death over you , wether it be bound and naked with his knife to your throat or by his command only , this is the Power a Master has. The slave is thus rendered powerless. To live or to die, that is the ultimate.

Hence the term , Total Power Exchange

I have that power over myself still, and I have that power over him. When I cook him food, when I take out his toys, when I drive someplace- I COULD kill him at any moment, just as he COULD kill me at any moment.

I COULD also kill myself at any moment.

I see your point as moot and just like any other power a human has.



By giving up authority you have given up all your power. You could only do those things if you had permission.

You equate power with ability.
I equate power with authority.

I get so frustrated trying to put my feelings into words. Emerald don't you feel the power of your Owner? That hum of power. I feel it!






EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/19/2005 8:09:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou
By giving up authority you have given up all your power. You could only do those things if you had permission.

No I can still DO them.

I still have all the power to DO them.

I just don't have the ORDERS to enact the power to do them.

quote:


You equate power with ability.
I equate power with authority.

Not just ability, but actually doing them.

quote:


I get so frustrated trying to put my feelings into words. Emerald don't you feel the power of your Owner? That hum of power. I feel it!

Of course the Owner is very powerful. So am I.

The difference is that he has authority over all of my power.



kisshou -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/19/2005 9:12:33 PM)

I am still mulling over everything that has been said. I am kind of lost over the "I just don't have the orders to enact the power to do them" part of your answer.

I wish you had posted this in the ask a Master forum (that forum just seems to get more replies)

I would love to see if other slaves feel they are very powerful and define what they mean by that . That is such a startling concept to me , I have never thought about it before.

And lastly I wish your Owner posted on the forums. He is like this great mystery man.


Cheers

kiss



Lordandmaster -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/19/2005 10:09:42 PM)

I'm amused by the way the consensus on the "Submission and Slavery" thread is that language IS arbitrary, and the consensus here is that language ISN'T.

At this point Dumass Dom would say something like BUT IM CONFUSED DOES TPE LIKE REALLY EXITS OR NOT? BECAUSE I NEED TO KNOW WHAT WORDS TO SAY TO THE BITCHS.

Lam

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir

Hey, language isn't arbitrary, and trying to fight a one person battle against it is a going to be a frustrating experience.




Leonidas -> RE: TPE = Totally Pointless Expression? (5/19/2005 10:40:26 PM)

Hmmmm.... Nah. When someone says TPE, you know what they mean (you demonstrated that very clearly in your post), and I know what they mean, and that's all that really matters. In the beginning there was Power Exchange, then someone said that's cool, but how do we differentiate those who do Power Exchange all the time from those who only do it for shits and giggles on the weekend? Someone said "hey, how bout "Total" power exchange. Et Viola!! A new three letter acronym is born.

Does it hold up to logical scrutiny? Maybe not, but I still pretty much know what someone means when they say it. If you start shining the stark light of logic on the TLAs (three letter acronyms) we know and love, there's going to be chaos in the streets: NOW. National Organization for Women. Hmmm.... But they're International says I. Shit. There goes the logic of the N. For Women. Hmmm... All of the women, or just the feminists? Some women just don't want these gals speaking for them, or advancing the agenda that they want to advance. OK, the W is starting to look shaky. Maybe they should be the IOF (International Organization for Feminists) except wait, the International Organization of Foresters has that one.

UAT in my world means User Acceptance Testing. If you told me you were involved in a UAT I'd REALLY get the wrong idea about what you were up to. Nice bit of thinking there, but could we please just stick with the terminology that we (sorta) know?



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