Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (Full Version)

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MisterCorvidae -> Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/18/2005 5:40:41 PM)

Greetings Readers
This may seem to take the form of a Rant, perhaps it is perhaps it is simply that I feel it is a need to address.
A little personal evaluation here may be somewhat explanatory. I have been in the lifestyle for a little over 6 years acknowledged and probably since about nine years old before I knew what BDSM was. I consider myself to be low average in the physical attraction scale, I don’t think myself an ogre nor a hunka hunka burning love. I have a set of principles I make every effort to live by. The precepts of this lifestyle fit quite comfortably within these same guidelines. Honesty, openness, willingness, integrity, honor, respect, courtesy, these are all words whose definitions can be looked up easily online or within any home library. These words are quite often bandied about within the context of almost any discussion, mayhap not as the actual subject but as an underlying understanding that said discussion is being carried on within the parameters fitting some or all of the above words. Who among us willingly will enter into a conversation with someone we know does not have at least some of these traits as integral to their self awareness?
Having said that why is it so difficult for individuals to exercise the simple task of responding to an overture of interest that is in essence written as a hello how are you I would like to talk some with you? Having read this far I think it is apparent that I have the ability, not necessarily exercised, to string words together in a manner that conveys my thoughts or at least the essence of them. If not then perhaps the fault lies within myself for having expectations far above what the level of the average here possesses, something I consider to be an almost nonexistent possibility.
So here is the crux of the question I pose. If written a letter of interest should a submissive not respond? In my thought processes she, or he for that matter, should indeed respond, even if the response is “Sorry not interested”. Understand that I do not apply this thought to the “On you knees B****” letters, nor to the “Here are your rules for living” prior to mutual agreement letters, basically not to any letter that is written in any manner that is taking more control than has been negotiated prior to hitting send. Now it might be argued that sending a letter uninvited in the first place is done without previous negotiation mightn’t it? I however see having a profile up on the site as having given that permission in a broad manner, I also after having written someone once rarely write them again. This leads to another issue however, the site is free, I am not in any way neither complaining nor judging its efficacy, however I am aware that even major ISPs have had delivery issues. There is a reason for mentioning this, if there is no response forthcoming I have a tendency to assume the email failed to be delivered, and without my self imposed rule of non-repeats of contact I could easily be persuaded to write yet again. LOL at this stage I could become a nuisance. I am sure that there are many that have fallen into that category simply because they got no response.
A downside as well perhaps is a personal decision that should I meet in real life at some function an individual that I have written and received no response from they will receive civility, respect and cordial treatment but it is doubtful they will get further than nodding acceptance from me, as I said I have a few rules I live my life by this is one of them. Whom does this hurt? Me probably, them possibly and it could so easily be avoided by the simple act of saying “Hey got the mail, not interested, don’t have time to respond, am exploring with someone else, yada yada”.
Ahhh I see you nodding off so I shall close. Your thoughts would be found interesting, whether in a positive vein or a negative. Your acceptance of my views is not a primary necessity, but I do find it curious that this seems to happen with such frequency.
Sincerely
Crow



ProtagonistLily -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/18/2005 6:04:51 PM)

Ok, this has been TALKED TO DEATH. I mean, this topic has rigor mortis like I can't even begin to tell you.

In a perfect world all Doms are strong and true, all subs are thin and pleasing and the world is just one big D/s zone.

Sorry to say, this is the internet, and not your perfect world.

Deal. That's my advice here. Call me discourteous, call me an 'unruly' submissive, call me what ever. But for the love of God and all that is holy, please, get some perspective.

You will never, ever get what you want vis a vis a response to all the notes you've put out, so forget it. Frankly, submissives are innundated with banal mail every day until we are ready to scream. Most of us don't even bother to take those notes seriously anymore.

I'm sorry that your expectations have not been realized via the mail you have sent and the relative discourteous behavior of the submissives you've mailed. You certainly aren't the first to complain, and I suppose, not the last.

Welcome to the internet.

Lily (who's about to get her ass on a plane to Vegas Baby!!!)



mnottertail -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/18/2005 6:07:37 PM)

I am in agreement with the spirit of your post. You may not think so, but it is true. As has been pointed out to me, it is impossible to clue in the truley clueless, they are bound to remain so. Once again, continuum.

Ron



FelinePersuasion -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/18/2005 6:15:13 PM)

They should make topics complaining about why don't you answer your emails against the TOS rules lol.



BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/18/2005 6:37:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MisterCorvidae
I have been in the lifestyle for a little over 6 years acknowledged and probably since about nine years old before I knew what BDSM was. I consider myself to be low average in the physical attraction scale, I don’t think myself an ogre nor a hunka hunka burning love. I have a set of principles I make every effort to live by. The precepts of this lifestyle fit quite comfortably within these same guidelines. Honesty, openness, willingness, integrity, honor, respect, courtesy, these are all words whose definitions can be looked up easily online or within any home library.
Crow

Your post is valid, and as you've noticed, it's also unfortunately very common... It has been stated that no one owes anyone courtesy, kindness or respect; I understand and wish like you that the world felt a little more owing to others of kindness, respect, courtesy and honesty because we'd all be much better off, but most people probably don't step outside of "what's in it for me thinking" long enough to be considerate just because...

You seem like a decent human being, and a nice guy, so I hope you will find one with whom you can have an honorable D/s relationship. In the meantime, you'll have to grin and bear it like the rest of us who don't get our way, but realize we can't whine because it's a sign of maladjustment to this insane world.
Welcome to collarme.. M



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/18/2005 6:46:31 PM)

*looking for the five dollars in my paypal account from another person talking about the type of email they get/don't get*

Really you should look at it this way- by not answering they've clearly stated you aren't going to work out and are saving band-width, time emailing, and space in your inbox for someone who would work out. How considerate is that?



mnottertail -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/18/2005 8:56:40 PM)

Ja, they already have one of them
smiles
ron



mnottertail -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/18/2005 9:02:49 PM)

dearest of Emeralds,

How can I have 5 bucks too?
wil you marry me?

are you rich?
answer the second question first, plese...........LMOA.

Your in yehovah(whatever his name is),
iRon









GentleLady -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/18/2005 10:27:02 PM)

Very nicely written post MisterCorvidea....unfortunately this is a topic that has been beaten to death many times now. Welcome to the boards though and better luck next time.

Gentle Lady



AAkasha -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/18/2005 10:36:49 PM)

For some period of time, in somewhat of an experiment, I made a conscious effort to respond to every email I got.

As a result, more than half the people I said, "No thank you, not interested," followed up with a question. "why not?" or "can we just be friends?" or "can you tell me what I am lacking?" Another portion of the one liners, the "hi how are you?" often wrote back annoyed emails, as if I was responding to a PM, not an email.

Then, there were some that just decided to get insulting. So as a result, I trippled my incoming emails, and all it does is put me in a bad mood when I go to read the next one which might be from someone sweet.

If someone does not have unlimited time to spend on collarme, especially if it is running slow, then answering every single email is a difficult option.

And, my profile happens to be very specific and I imagine femdoms who are looking for a rl partner get 10x the emails I do.

Akasha



LadyAngelika -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/19/2005 4:45:36 AM)

Much like Akasha, I used to answer every email. But I don't anymore for similar reasons that Akasha posted.

I put strict guidelines and if someone doesn't follow those guidelines, I delete their email. If someone persists, I block them. You know what? It's completely my right to do so. If someone wants to call me a bitch for it, go ahead. I've been called worse ;)

As for your post, once again, this topic has most definitely been talked to death and I think that the frustration you are feeling from members is that we really would prefer some dynamic, though-provoking debate then rants. I'm sure that if you come back around with this in mind, all will be forgiven.

- LA



Faramir -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/19/2005 7:40:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig
Your post is valid, and as you've noticed, it's also unfortunately very common... It has been stated that no one owes anyone courtesy, kindness or respect;


Oh, but we do owe each other courtesy, kindness and respect.

But the choice to respond to unsolicited emails isn't a matter of courtesy, kindness, or respect. An invitation to dialogue must be just that: an invitation. If I'm angry over being declined, then it wasn't an invitation: it was a demand. The demand is what is discourteous, unkind and disrespectful.



SenorX -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/19/2005 8:23:23 AM)

This is an excellent post!

Yes, I am sure some may consider this beating a dead horse since I am sure this matter has come up time and time again.

Respect is earned. It doesn't cost anything to be courteous though. I can reasonably deduce that many here who have attempted to initiate some kind of dialogue with another have, at first, started out by writing a nice, detailed message. After a while, and after numerous writings going out with no kind of responses coming back, the initial seeker becomes discouraged and begins to shorten his/her message of initial contact to... in some cases I have seen, 2-3 words.

In reviewing My bride's incoming messages, I have noted that there are many here who try to initiate action with an attitude. I have told My bride to just delete those and block them without dignifying their message by reply. However, those who have sent her a courteous message receive a courteous reply, in kind... something simple, such as "no, thank you", "not interested, thank you," "already have a Master, thank you," etc.

I can understand, as well, though, the frustrations because of some of the inappropriate and rude responses to the courteous responses to the initial messages. Case in point, when My bride placed herself in collarme, even before her profile came up, she received messages from over 150 (allegedly different) people. Out of those, there were only 3 who displayed the courtesy and decency to bow out gracefully and courteously when she replied that she is happily married to Me. Those 3 have earned Oour respect.

Even in some situations whereby I have begun considering someone to potentially join Uus, and during said consideration stage discovered that the prospective sub would not work out, I have still been courteous in dealing with the situation. Not to say that yes, even some of them have have returned the courtesy of dealing with the matter in a civil and courteous way. But, there have been others who understood and have very graciously and courteously been in accord with My decision. Those few subs that have acted so graciously have earned My highest respect for them.

You can be courteous to someone you don't respect. Courtesies can very easily and inexpensively given out freely without cost. Respect is earned.

X



BlkTallFullfig -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/19/2005 11:29:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Faramir
Oh, but we do owe each other courtesy, kindness and respect.

We do? I'll be sure to demand courtesy/kindness or respect next time I don't get it on account that you said it.
quote:

But the choice to respond to unsolicited emails isn't a matter of courtesy, kindness, or respect. An invitation to dialogue must be just that: an invitation. If I'm angry over being declined, then it wasn't an invitation: it was a demand. The demand is what is discourteous, unkind and disrespectful.

First, I made no mention of solicited vs unsolicited... My feeling is that if I have a profile seeking a sub, than a sub who feels he fits within the parameters I've set forth should feel solicited and reply if he so chooses...

As for my own behavior, when I get a note that says hello, I like your profile for reason A/B or C, no matter from whom, I try to respond by saying hello back, because I consider it theirs a simple human being trying to connect, and my response a small gesture to try and maintain civility. The disclaimer for me is a disrespectful approach/note should not be encouraged with positive/any reply.

It sounds to me like you are saying a note from anyone is an invitation to a dialogue, and a non response would signify your decline to the invitation... I suppose you could look at it that way, but I would hope that if I were in front of you and asked what you thought of something, you'd do more than stare at me and walk away; I would hope that you would say I've no interest in discussing this subject with you, bye. JMHO, M



EmeraldSlave2 -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/19/2005 11:39:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig
I would hope that you would say I've no interest in discussing this subject with you, bye. JMHO, M

I feel the change in medium makes a very different social structure. Yes, if someone came up to me in rt and said hi, I'd absolutely respond in kind.

But I view being online far more like getting a letter in the mail or getting a phone call. It's my choice to open it/pick up the phone. I don't have to, and I certainly don't have to call back. It's a far more casual medium with different rules from offline personal interactions.

Some random person deciding to send a few electrons my way in no way obligates me to respond.



dragonofjapan -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/19/2005 12:37:47 PM)

I disagree with those who say no one deserves or should be shown respect. I think perhaps this is one of the reasons the US is on the slippery slope. I think ALL people deserve respect UNLESS they open with something which shows they are an asshole such as the "on your knees..." bs.

I take time to answer every letter.

I correspond with people I will never meet, people who ask a question or often a comment.

I think being courteous is a trait we all need a bit more of.

I am sure the sub fems are overwhelmed. Maybe there needs to be a button with a form reply letter which each person could customize for these individuals.

I will continue to take time out to answer anyone who writes of asks something of me.

Zip



subcheryl -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/19/2005 5:07:41 PM)

Ok am going to try and express my opinion and hope it comes out right. But I too think that it would be nice and courteous if when I send a well thought out letter if at least a no thank you respose was returned. Of course I have no idea how much mail those of you who choose to ignore some of the letters, get, but I guess I never received that many that I couldn't at least write, no thank you, back to that person. And I am wondering how you know that you are not passing up a very special person if you don't open up the letters and read them? that has puzzled me before when I have read this type of thing, unless I misread that or misunderstood it, I did have one write after I came to Master that could not take no for an answer even when I wrote and explained it was my masters wish for him to go thru Master before we could write back and forth after the 3rd letter I blocked him. yes courtesy is nice but some don't feel they should show that to anyone anymore, so have to either ignore them or except it for who or what they are. Hope this is not offending to anyone just my opinion



LadyAngelika -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/19/2005 5:09:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EmeraldSlave2
quote:

ORIGINAL: BlkTallFullfig
I would hope that you would say I've no interest in discussing this subject with you, bye. JMHO, M

I feel the change in medium makes a very different social structure. Yes, if someone came up to me in rt and said hi, I'd absolutely respond in kind.


I agree with you in general Emerald... but not completely. I respond to all kind and courteous emails. I do not respond to trolling emails. I simply have better things to do with my time.

Now for RL, the same thing applies. If I'm being trolled in RL, I tend to just walk away.

I know some people are being kind and courteous when they come by and say hi, but it happens often that I have men start walking next to me on the sidewalk and try to chat me up, with very obvious pursuit intentions. I know from experience that if I return a hello, they think it's an invitation for a dialogue. Sometimes I just simply do not open the door. Otherwise, if I say hello back, I tend to have them chatting me up for a few blocks and fighting off there advances, which ends up sucking a whole lot of energy out of me. Again, I have better things to do with my time.

- LA



kc692 -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/19/2005 7:17:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

For some period of time, in somewhat of an experiment, I made a conscious effort to respond to every email I got.

As a result, more than half the people I said, "No thank you, not interested," followed up with a question. "why not?" or "can we just be friends?" or "can you tell me what I am lacking?" Another portion of the one liners, the "hi how are you?" often wrote back annoyed emails, as if I was responding to a PM, not an email.

Then, there were some that just decided to get insulting. So as a result, I trippled my incoming emails, and all it does is put me in a bad mood when I go to read the next one which might be from someone sweet.

If someone does not have unlimited time to spend on collarme, especially if it is running slow, then answering every single email is a difficult option.

And, my profile happens to be very specific and I imagine femdoms who are looking for a rl partner get 10x the emails I do.

Akasha

Respectfully asked, does this mean that you think the majority actually read your complete profile????



AAkasha -> RE: Just a thought: Courteous Behavior (5/20/2005 10:06:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kc692


quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

For some period of time, in somewhat of an experiment, I made a conscious effort to respond to every email I got.

As a result, more than half the people I said, "No thank you, not interested," followed up with a question. "why not?" or "can we just be friends?" or "can you tell me what I am lacking?" Another portion of the one liners, the "hi how are you?" often wrote back annoyed emails, as if I was responding to a PM, not an email.

Then, there were some that just decided to get insulting. So as a result, I trippled my incoming emails, and all it does is put me in a bad mood when I go to read the next one which might be from someone sweet.

If someone does not have unlimited time to spend on collarme, especially if it is running slow, then answering every single email is a difficult option.

And, my profile happens to be very specific and I imagine femdoms who are looking for a rl partner get 10x the emails I do.

Akasha

Respectfully asked, does this mean that you think the majority actually read your complete profile????



Now, I realize they don't. At first I thought I got tons of emails from subs because it was not spelled out extremely clearly that I am not seeking a real life partner, I already have one. I re-wrote it to be extremely specific beyond that, and I still got a ton of emails.

Akasha



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