RE: So THIS is progress

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CuriousLord -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/27/2007 3:26:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle You REALLY have no fucking idea how a Federal Republic operates under a Constitution, all founded upon the Declaration of Independence, if you're ignorant enough to even SUGGEST that The Constitution in ANY WAY empowers The People, and does ANYTHING OTHER then explicitly delegate and restrict authority TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. The CONSTITUTION tells THE GOVERNMENT ONLY WHAT THEY MAY DO. I mean, to suggest it says ANYTHING about the unalienable rights other than, Don't Do This, is quite laughable... I'm going to ignore your further rantings. i honestly thought he had to be from a foreign country and as i said i had to peek at his profile to see where he was from... imo it makes the point however the extent of the revisionist teachings if there are any at all in the school system today. you hit the target dead center, people actually believe their rights are handed to them on a silver platter. i remember the ben franklin quote when mrs parker asked him what kind of government they had come up for the republic and he replied " we have a republic madam if you can keep it" Like OBL says below this country is doomed. You're encouraging him quite a bit. He's not going to get the satire on himself until he sits down to read it without the.. sort of raving thing he has going on. I'd ask you allow him to see reason as opposed to citing doomsday sort of theories. On a seperate note, you're really into the whole idea that convention is "revisionist" these days. Any particular reason why?

Real0ne -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/27/2007 3:43:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord You're encouraging him quite a bit. He's not going to get the satire on himself until he sits down to read it without the.. sort of raving thing he has going on. I'd ask you allow him to see reason as opposed to citing doomsday sort of theories. On a seperate note, you're really into the whole idea that convention is "revisionist" these days. Any particular reason why? encouraging him? hardly. You could take a sit back and learn from him. Your post missed the boat by so far in are in a different ocean with your comments in your p[ost74 i did not even bother responding. i am shocked at what little you know about the constitution of the country you live in. revisionist? becaue you have no idea as to the history of this country to say the things you do. that means you never did any research, watching the news wont get it. i p[osed that little tesla question just to see if you would even look into it... not. so you are happy with what you "think" you know and that is fine. You need to do some serious historical digging if you want to truly understand the meaning of constitution and the dec and the bor etc

CuriousLord -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/27/2007 3:50:04 PM)
So I'm guessing that you also feel that good government officials would've been able to bring peace in a year or so? Or that even pissed-off, suicidial individuals with a fanatical religious zeal should be allowed to own nuclear weapons? That people diagnosed as sociopathetic should be allowed to arm themselves with a small handgun in their pocket? That Bush is really out just to make troops wait in Iraq for no reason? Please, please tell me at least part of this strikes you as slightly insane.

Real0ne -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/27/2007 3:57:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord So I'm guessing that you also feel that good government officials would've been able to bring peace in a year or so? Or that even pissed-off, suicidial individuals with a fanatical religious zeal should be allowed to own nuclear weapons? That people diagnosed as sociopathetic should be allowed to arm themselves with a small handgun in their pocket? That Bush is really out just to make troops wait in Iraq for no reason? Please, please tell me at least part of this strikes you as slightly insane. what strikes me as insane is that people continually fall for false flags in this country and sucker for it over and over LOL sad as it is. psychopaths should be in jail or someform of help facility there are other ways to deal with problems that do not stomp our rights in the ground

farglebargle -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/27/2007 4:04:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord So I'm guessing that you also feel that good government officials would've been able to bring peace in a year or so? No, GOOD Government officials would never have chosen to commit felonies to promote their fraud, resulting in the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Merely COMPETENT Government officials would know enough to decentralize all responsibility and get the Government the HELL out of people's ways. quote: Or that even pissed-off, suicidial individuals with a fanatical religious zeal should be allowed to own nuclear weapons? They're your slaves, or something, that YOU can dictate to them what they own? Or are you in favor of some sort of Communist Paradise where The State gets to tell everyone what they can own? quote: That people diagnosed as sociopathetic should be allowed to arm themselves with a small handgun in their pocket? That Bush is really out just to make troops wait in Iraq for no reason? Remember how the Commies used to call everyone Politically Unreliable "Crazy?" And can you tell us what the Iraqi AUMF said the TWO reasons military force was authorized?

Sinergy -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/27/2007 4:06:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: selfbnd411 I opposed the war the minute it became clear that the war was not being fought for America's self interest; it was being fought to serve the political and personal ends of the bushies. This is why I opposed the war before it ever started. I knew it was about the political and personal enrichment of AnencephalyBoy and Shotgun. Sinergy

CuriousLord -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/27/2007 4:15:40 PM)
As it would take me all day to point out some fair fraction of the problems with those ideas.. let me ask you one thing. It a section of land.. say, Kansas (it doesn't really matter, just picking a US state for the sake of being able to say it doesn't have a barren terrian or horrid climate to deal with) was abandoned by it's popuation.. all items in tact, food stores provided there.. and fenced in.. and the government said, "Free individuals are allowed to do whatever they want here"- everyone in every government all over the world agreed not to interfere in this land- there was no government in this land- would you go to it?

Real0ne -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/27/2007 4:24:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord As it would take me all day to point out some fair fraction of the problems with those ideas.. let me ask you one thing. It a section of land.. say, Kansas (it doesn't really matter, just picking a US state for the sake of being able to say it doesn't have a barren terrian or horrid climate to deal with) was abandoned by it's popuation.. all items in tact, food stores provided there.. and fenced in.. and the government said, "Free individuals are allowed to do whatever they want here"- everyone in every government all over the world agreed not to interfere in this land- there was no government in this land- would you go to it? thats funny! only if i could be standing on the border with engines running finger on the nitrous so i wouldnt get run over by the crowd!

CuriousLord -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/27/2007 4:29:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne thats funny! only if i could be standing on the border with engines running finger on the nitrous so i wouldnt get run over by the crowd! Yeah.. I was afraid you guys would like that place... ..have you yet considered that some people just like the idea of killing others, and, given the chance, would just stand at that boarder with a machine gun and mow you down? They'd have a lot of bodies to hide. Not because anyone would charge them with murder, but because they'd not want to discourage others from walking within their firing range. Just need to put some cover around the machine gun and fire through a little hole the barrel's at.. they'd have a blast..

Sinergy -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/27/2007 4:48:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: farglebargle Hamiltionians really just love pulling shit out of their asses, smearing it on the constitution, and then saying, LOOK!, It says something other than what's clearly written!!! I imagine part of the problem you are having making your point, farglebargle, is that most people learned about Hamilton and his efforts to enact a strong and powerful government. I tend to be more in agreement with your points, and the points of Thomas Jefferson who was almost successful in designing a government too hamstrung by the different branches of government to be effective. What happened after 9/11 is that Congress ceded their authority to AnencephalyBoy, who then put his own dickheads on the Supreme Court, so that now we have the sort of Presidency that Jefferson would wake up screaming about. I cannot stand single points of failure. Especially when a bunch of idiots elect one of their own to be the single point of failure. Sinergy

Real0ne -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/27/2007 5:09:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne thats funny! only if i could be standing on the border with engines running finger on the nitrous so i wouldnt get run over by the crowd! Yeah.. I was afraid you guys would like that place... ..have you yet considered that some people just like the idea of killing others, and, given the chance, would just stand at that boarder with a machine gun and mow you down? They'd have a lot of bodies to hide. Not because anyone would charge them with murder, but because they'd not want to discourage others from walking within their firing range. Just need to put some cover around the machine gun and fire through a little hole the barrel's at.. they'd have a blast.. you did say abandoned land not somoene trying to protect it That and if that were the case i would go prepared, that i wont get into but it would be aparty fo sho. of course that means no one would be a chargin me with murder than either so its fair!

philosophy -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/27/2007 5:12:20 PM)
"It is clear that radical groups (from all religions and social interests) have little but ill intent on their minds. What I will dispute though, is that our current actions have any chance at a positive outcome. At what point does this become the definition of insanity ... doing the same thing again and again, and expecting a different outcome? " .....excellent post Caitlyn. Unless we see this 'war on terror' as a collision between two radical groups with self serving agendas we run the risk of misjudging where to place our loyalties. There is no honour, to my mind, in blind faith or obedience. If our side (whether our side is Iraqi or American) acts dishonourably then i fail to see the honour in supporting it.

CuriousLord -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/27/2007 5:34:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord Yeah.. I was afraid you guys would like that place... ..have you yet considered that some people just like the idea of killing others, and, given the chance, would just stand at that boarder with a machine gun and mow you down? They'd have a lot of bodies to hide. Not because anyone would charge them with murder, but because they'd not want to discourage others from walking within their firing range. Just need to put some cover around the machine gun and fire through a little hole the barrel's at.. they'd have a blast.. you did say abandoned land not somoene trying to protect it That and if that were the case i would go prepared, that i wont get into but it would be aparty fo sho. of course that means no one would be a chargin me with murder than either so its fair! They're not trying to protect it.. and it was abandoned.. as you displayed an understanding of in commenting about the roving crowds coming into it, others would go to it, too. And one of them will probably bring some pretty serious fire power. ("one of them" being an understatememt) They just want to kill. But, hey, assuming you're the absolute first one there (which is unlikely- hell, I think farble here might even outrun you), you'll probably get in a while before some guy, decked in body armor and police shield, comes through with an assualt weapon. Or a Jeep full of gernades and starts tossing them about. A lot of people would die in anarchy. Some might live through a combination of skill, forethought, and dumb luck. But, for the most part, government allows us to live- protecting us from eachother. Take your absolute freedoms with you elsewhere. I'll live in a world where mentally unstable, or otherwise apathetic or greedy, individuals can't kill you and then loot your corpse.

Real0ne -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/27/2007 6:08:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord Take your absolute freedoms with you elsewhere. I'll live in a world where mentally unstable, or otherwise apathetic or greedy, individuals can't kill you and then loot your corpse. tell that to the victims of janet reno and billy butt head and tell me which imaginary world that is?

dcnovice -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/27/2007 8:03:02 PM)
quote: I blame the far left for these deaths. Now there's a shock.

NeedToUseYou -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/27/2007 9:14:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord quote: ORIGINAL: Real0ne quote: ORIGINAL: CuriousLord Yeah.. I was afraid you guys would like that place... ..have you yet considered that some people just like the idea of killing others, and, given the chance, would just stand at that boarder with a machine gun and mow you down? They'd have a lot of bodies to hide. Not because anyone would charge them with murder, but because they'd not want to discourage others from walking within their firing range. Just need to put some cover around the machine gun and fire through a little hole the barrel's at.. they'd have a blast.. you did say abandoned land not somoene trying to protect it That and if that were the case i would go prepared, that i wont get into but it would be aparty fo sho. of course that means no one would be a chargin me with murder than either so its fair! They're not trying to protect it.. and it was abandoned.. as you displayed an understanding of in commenting about the roving crowds coming into it, others would go to it, too. And one of them will probably bring some pretty serious fire power. ("one of them" being an understatememt) They just want to kill. But, hey, assuming you're the absolute first one there (which is unlikely- hell, I think farble here might even outrun you), you'll probably get in a while before some guy, decked in body armor and police shield, comes through with an assualt weapon. Or a Jeep full of gernades and starts tossing them about. A lot of people would die in anarchy. Some might live through a combination of skill, forethought, and dumb luck. But, for the most part, government allows us to live- protecting us from eachother. Take your absolute freedoms with you elsewhere. I'll live in a world where mentally unstable, or otherwise apathetic or greedy, individuals can't kill you and then loot your corpse. The failing point of your logic, is you apparently assume no one of good intentions would bring a shit load of fire power to. It's simple in my mind what causes peace. It is a balance of mutual threat, and the benefit of mutual cooperation. If I were to go to your new Kansas, you better believe it would be with a small community of like minded individuals. And like minded would mean packing some serious fire power. That doesn't infer that I'm going to use it, but it does infer that if someone attacks I'd use it. What stops people from killing you, isn't the government. It is 1. The vast majority of people don't enjoy killing people to begin with. 2. Generally murders lose all social standing once they commit murder. 3. People generally will join together to protect and fight against a common enemy, especially one shooting at them. I doubt they will just sit there and die in waves. I get your point though some people are evil bastards, though in my view if anything the government slows down the process of removing the evil bastards and actually goes out of their way to protect them. LOL. This is not even to say government is completely bad, it is to say that to much government is just as bad as none. It would just be less government and small government. You can live in my town. You'll be safer than in the current scenario. LOL.

NeedToUseYou -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/27/2007 9:32:54 PM)
Someone asked earlier when views on the Iraq war changed. Well, I wasn't opposed to the war initially, wasn't for it either. Why, well they said he WMD's, Hussein was an evil bastard. So, it seemed like the good effects of removing him would outweigh the bad. During the Shock and Awe portion, I was feeling good that were going to do the war right, and just go in and take over, balls to the wall, no remorse no regret type of war. However, as soon as it became about hearts and minds, I knew we were fucking up. In my view you worry about the hearts and minds after the war is over. It doesn't work very well to hand out M&M's and later the same week raid the house down the block and drag off your friends daddy. So, the beginning of the end was integrating a PC attitude into something that by definition is destructive. We tried to start the aftercare before the beating was done. Another reason my view changed, was the whole WMD fiasco. As it slowly turned the public perception against the war. Once you lose the public, it is all down hill from there. The whole beginning of the war was quite a long time ago in my political history. Honestly, I didn't pay much attention, and some of my core political beliefs were still evolving. Now, I'm Non-interventionist in regards to other countries, it seems the only logic course of action.

farglebargle -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/27/2007 10:27:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou Someone asked earlier when views on the Iraq war changed. Well, I wasn't opposed to the war initially, wasn't for it either. Why, well they said he WMD's, Hussein was an evil bastard. So, it seemed like the good effects of removing him would outweigh the bad. During the Shock and Awe portion, I was feeling good that were going to do the war right, and just go in and take over, balls to the wall, no remorse no regret type of war. However, as soon as it became about hearts and minds, I knew we were fucking up. In my view you worry about the hearts and minds after the war is over. It doesn't work very well to hand out M&M's and later the same week raid the house down the block and drag off your friends daddy. So, the beginning of the end was integrating a PC attitude into something that by definition is destructive. We tried to start the aftercare before the beating was done. Another reason my view changed, was the whole WMD fiasco. As it slowly turned the public perception against the war. Once you lose the public, it is all down hill from there. The whole beginning of the war was quite a long time ago in my political history. Honestly, I didn't pay much attention, and some of my core political beliefs were still evolving. Now, I'm Non-interventionist in regards to other countries, it seems the only logic course of action. The Iraqi-AUMF, in and of itself isn't really a bad thing. Enforce relevant UN resolutions, and remove threat to US. Of course, there were not relevant UN resolutions to enforce ( which is why the UN didn't invade, or sanction our invasion ) and there was no threat to the United States, so while the stated purpose isn't all that bad, it's been pretty badly abused, wouldn't you say? Of course, the fact that the Administration needed to violate 18 USC 371, doesn't say much about their Honor or Integrity, does it?

caitlyn -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/28/2007 12:17:46 PM)
You may be right about two radical groups ... it may be exactly that way. I think I've done some "evolving" on this issue, over the past year. That's a nice way to say that I'm finally willing to admit I was wrong at the start. [;)]

Vendaval -> RE: So THIS is progress (5/28/2007 12:39:11 PM)
Learning necessitates having a mind open enough to absorb new ideas and concepts. And our life experiences can change our perceptions and beliefs.

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